Sales Discussion: Batman, Bat- Family and Related Titles

[marvelprince]

My mistake. You are right. While Dick did has solo adventures in the Golden Age [in star Spangled Comics] Like all GA titles at the time it featured other characters so not exactly a solo.

Tim was the first to get a solo and it ran for like 200 issues. That is impressive but again that doesn't make him the greatest Robin. it makes him the Robin to have the longest running solo Robin series.

Is ir a big deal in Universe? Don't recall characters marvelling at that or bringing it up much.

Point is Tim wasn't a brain so the story wasn't a showcase of his great intellect/detective skills. If that's what readers took away then they didn't get it.

All the Batson's repair and build their own tech

Nightwing built his vehicles and Jason builds his own tech.

During their Robin tenure? Damian did all that aside form the multiverse trek though he has saved brought Bruce back to live and saved timBat.

Robin Damian built a flying Bat mobile.
Hacked Tim Drake, The Bat Computer and lex Luthor at age 10.
He's even solved Black Case book files [cases that Bruce couldn't]

As for Tim being a viable seller. He was back when he was only option, Batman 89 exploded all things Batman related and the comics market was experiencing a ridicules boom.

A lot has changed since then. 2 new Bat boys were introduced, the comic boom is over and the readership has declined. There's also the easy and availability of numerous piracy sites.

The market trend has also changed with characters with some edge, flaws and cads seem to be getting more popular.

Tim's RR had decent sales I think, It had similar numbers to RSOB I think

YJ by Bendis didn't perform well despite heavy promo and featuring a beloved group of characters with established fan bases. [The core4 like Tim had great sales back in the 90's but that has changed significantly]

TT by Lobdell also had poor sales
Batman Beyond had low numbers
Robin Eternal like all FS titles went to 2nd Print however actual numbers was one of the Lowest selling Fs titles
Tim's Pride special debuted at #144, which is abysmal
Dc: YJ had very figures and TDR was an embarrassment beaten in sale by jace and punchline.

Tim's figures aren't what they used to be . It's not that he's never sold. It's that he hasn't in a while. A lot of characters thrived in the 90's. Everything thrived in the 90's [heck even Liefeld''s ridiculous ripoffs made so much bank back then]

DC keeps investing and his figs keeps declining.

FYI when Bruce was thought dead and Tim kept saying he was alive. That wasn't anything to do with detective skills . He said it was a gut feeling. He had no proof. lets stop doing this.
Dick in London with squire and Knight were the ones who got the proof that showed that Bruce was alive.

Tim found the symbol on the cave that proved his gut feeling. Started with a feeling, found evidence. No one else even bothered.

And Red Robin did sell well, but so did Lobdell's Teen Titan's actually. It was one of the longer lasting titles in the New 52 and its own spinoffs and events.

And Batman Beyond and Young Justice which each took Tim but changed him in ways the fans didn't like, so yeah no surprise that didn't sell.

So if you want to hang your hat on the fact that the last terrible series, which launched from a poorly received thinly veiled attempt to diversify the brand from a poor selling backup with even more terrible art somehow didn't manage to set the charts on fire then you're free to do so. I just think there's a little more to it than no one wanting to read Tim stories.

[Morgoth]

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...ics-april-2024

18 The Bat-Man First Knight #2 (Of 3) (Mature)
23 Nightwing #113
30 Batman Superman World’s Finest #26
38 The Bat-Man First Knight #2 (Of 3) (Mature)
41 Detective Comics #1084
43 Batman #146
46 Batman and Robin #8

I guess Zdarsky won't be sticking around for too long.

[HsssH]

Last month #146 was listed as well so sales are split. ICV2 are just bad at what they do.

[Morgoth]

Oh, I see. Wasn't aware of that.

[bob.schoonover]

Last month #146 was listed as well so sales are split. ICV2 are just bad at what they do.

Yeah, the nice thing Diamond used to do was put out the yearly chart that covered almost all of the split-month sales oddities.

[Fergus]

Tim found the symbol on the cave that proved his gut feeling. Started with a feeling, found evidence. No one else even bothered.

And Red Robin did sell well, but so did Lobdell's Teen Titan's actually. It was one of the longer lasting titles in the New 52 and its own spinoffs and events.

And Batman Beyond and Young Justice which each took Tim but changed him in ways the fans didn't like, so yeah no surprise that didn't sell.

So if you want to hang your hat on the fact that the last terrible series, which launched from a poorly received thinly veiled attempt to diversify the brand from a poor selling backup with even more terrible art somehow didn't manage to set the charts on fire then you're free to do so. I just think there's a little more to it than no one wanting to read Tim stories.

That last series not setting the charts on fire wasn't the only fact I based my arguments on but you go ahead and twist my words however you want if it helps you feel better.

[Konja7]

And Batman Beyond and Young Justice which each took Tim but changed him in ways the fans didn't like, so yeah no surprise that didn't sell.

Young Justice sales started to fall on sales since issue 2, which happened before they take a decision with Tim that people didn't like.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Young Justice sales started to fall on sales since issue 2, which happened before they take a decision with Tim that people didn't like.

How far did the sales decline overall

[Konja7]

How far did the sales decline overall

To be clear, a strong drop between issue 1 and issue 2 isn't really weird. The real issue was that the fall was quite constant throught all the run.

Young Justice sales had dropped under 30K to Issue 5 (and the fall will continue after that). At that point, the story didn't make something horrible with Tim Drake yet.

[Konja7]

Last month #146 was listed as well so sales are split. ICV2 are just bad at what they do.

Yeah. ICv2's data collected for March 2024 is from March 3 to April 6, while the data for April 2024 is from April 7 to May 4. Batman #146 was released in April 2.

Batman #146 position in March 2024 was 30, which shows you this comic sales a lot in the first 4 days.

After these strong sales in the first four days, Batman 146 still could get position 43 for April 2024 chart.

[Username taken]

Last month #146 was listed as well so sales are split. ICV2 are just bad at what they do.

Exactly.

The charts are all manner of wonky.

[Fergus]

Exactly.

The charts are all manner of wonky.

Diamond sales chart was more reliable.

[TheKryptonMan]

Diamond sales chart was more reliable.

I definitely agree about Diamond sales chart being very reliable . But this was a decision that DC made to leave Diamond for Lunar and the Tuesday on sale for the books . But I have to admit that I don't remember the main Batman book ever being so far down on the charts in my 30 years of buying comics .
Chip's run on Batman started out with Batman & Failsafe and they're still here after so long .
Really think that it's time for a different writer with more ideas for the main Bat book .

[skyvolt2000]

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...ics-april-2024


I guess Zdarsky won't be sticking around for too long.

Or maybe JUST Maybe better books that attracted folks interest and their MONEY were the reason.

Or stores actually ordered the correct amount of books that sell and have X number of copies and have finally stopped over ordering books like that have in the past.

Call me when that book is in the higher 100s.

Being 43 is not enough for me to panic at least not 2025. Because whatever is in place is not worth derailing right now. Right that ship in January.

[Konja7]

Or maybe JUST Maybe better books that attracted folks interest and their MONEY were the reason.

Or stores actually ordered the correct amount of books that sell and have X number of copies and have finally stopped over ordering books like that have in the past.

Call me when that book is in the higher 100s.

Being 43 is not enough for me to panic at least not 2025. Because whatever is in place is not worth derailing right now. Right that ship in January.

It has already been explained Batman #146 sales are split between March and April, since the data por March 2024 ranking was from March 3 to April 6 (Batman #146 was released on April 2).

The fact that Batman #146 was position 30 in March while position 43 in April shows how this title sells a lot for comic stores.


PS: Also, ICv2 ranking is based on the sales from comic stores, not the orders.