X-Men '97: The Animated Series

[Lukmendes]

This is one reason i can't help but wonder how people can call Star Wars, Star Trek or Doctor Who "dead", just because the newest output from these franchises had been divisive or downright (generaly agreed) upon bad, as if a string of weaker new products erases all the positive memories and emotional connections people had developed for them over the past decades (up to half a century by now). Especialy since all the past stuff they loved still exist and as fans they will not care how "canon" it has been declared in newer times.

And it's not an entirely aging fanbase either, because these products still draw in new fans regulary and not just with the newest "modernized" material but also (or even especialy) with the classic material even if it can considered dated, cheap or awkward looking and sounding by the newest standards of productions.

Just as if even younger viewers can still feel the same "charm" at work that the their forbearers long ago felt, despite not having a "nostalgia" for these works.

And many fans (there are always the sticklers of course) will indeed not sugar coat or see things through rose-colored glasses and ignore problems or cheap production standards, but simply take them in stride or even enjoy them for what they are.
Many people can feel intrigued by looking into a past vision into other times or worlds. Retro-history, fantasy and futurism.

Infact one re-occuring problem with the newer output of storied franchises like these, seems to be that when the newest generation of writers and producers want to make it "hip", "cool" and "modern" they often lose a lot of the charm, at which point it becomes "X dressed up as Y".

Because while these things obviously can and need to be modernized in their newer incarnations, they are still original products of a certain time and carry with them the feel of it, which viewers/consumers have grown used to or which has drawn them to it in first place. So to remove the "camp" of their dated of origins, often means robbing them of a vital part of their identity.

Yeah, stuff like that is why I say an adaptation in spirit is more important that a word for word adaptation, understanding what makes that story, and/or characters special is the way to go.

So in that regard i highly doubt anything from Morrison or the last 20 years will be picked up as main status quo, including Krakoa. The best case scenario is that something like House of M or Dawn of X becomes a 2 part storyline, after which the show goes back to going new ways or further adapting classic stories in new format.

Just like Star Trek, Star Wars and Doctor Who, X-men is the product of a certain time and certain creators thumb prints, which has infused itself into the minds of a larger audience and can't be removed anymore. But for the same reason i feel it's short sighted to call their demise, just because the newest output isn't great.

At worst they go into hibernation, until a new dedicated group of creators bring them back and all the old charm and past visions will draw in people all over again.

This is of course, just one perspective on the whole subject and not even all points i'd like to consider.

Something like Krakoa would be a hard sell yeah, and I doubt it'd be adapted like the way it is now, it most likely would be more like Genosha, or Utopia or whatever, basically, allowing mutant villains to still be villains.

I don't necessarily think stories we have in the comics now will never be adapted, but they are far less likely to happen, since adaptations are always about making money, usual X-Men are a safe bet, Krakoa is not.

But unlikely doesn't mean impossible, so hey, maybe someday, like, 50 years from now when some director is nostalgic of the Krakoa era lol.

While X-men Evolution made me an X-men fan, followed by the movies, I too have fond memories of watching the 90's TAS as a kid. In many ways, its the platonic ideal of X-men adaptations - comic-accurate looks, a healthy mix of faithful adaptations and original stories, a kid's superhero cartoon with tons of action and humor but also delving into serious themes (without taking away from the fun of it all), and a lineup that pretty much screams classic X-men. With the exception of a few characters like Nightcrawler, Colossus, Iceman, Kitty Pryde etc. the lineup included pretty much every iconic X-man (or woman) that casual audiences and fans today recognize as members of the team (and most of the aforementioned characters nonetheless guest starred on the show).

Nostalgia isn't a dirty word, and frankly I think if there's one franchise which could really do with a nostalgia shot all round it's the X-men. The comics for close to a decade now have been unrecognizable from any 'classic' iteration of the franchise (not to diss the comics - a lot of great work has been done, but the fact is that an old-school X-men fan or someone who's seen one of the cartoons is likely to be completely at sea if he picks up, say, House of X). The now defunct film franchise too hadn't had a recognizable iconic line-up in forever (and I say this as someone who otherwise enjoyed the 'First Class' series, including Dark Pheonix up to a point).

My point is that if Spider-Man can get, like, the zillionth re-adaptation of his high-school years and the Lee/Kirby and Lee/Romita eras (with a few select later elements like Venom and Miles Morales thrown in), why can't the X-men get a healthy helping of much-needed nostalgia either?

Heh, guess grass is greener on the other side, 'cause Spidey's getting another high school adaptation, one that is MCU canon even (for now at least), and the response to it is, mixed, well, at least in this website, dunno how more casual fans are reacting.

[Sandmans_Raven]

You're making way too many assumptions here. This isn't a complete remaster, it's a continuation of a series. At the bottom line, it is new content, regardless of it being an established property. I don't know how you can be a fan of comics and then be upset at the concept of a story continuing.

What regression are you talking about exactly? That its not Krakoa? ignoring the fact that hickman himself has stated he intended to "put all the toys back in the box" in terms of krakoa We have no idea what 97 will explore in terms of concepts, its entirely possible it might mirror what is happening in the comics in some areas. Do I expect them to totally change their entire set up with new characters and environment? No but if you think everything is going to be exactly the same in tone or ideas, I think you are not giving the creative team enough credit.

Also people need to stop dragging the term "nostaglia" through the mud. There is looking at something through rose-colored glasses and there is forming an emotional connection to certain work. I think people need to realize there is a difference and the latter is 90% of the reason why people are fans of the X-Men in the first place, that's not a reason to call a work bad or think people can't genuinely be excited for a series or work to continue.

Well said. I've said it before in this thread, but even if you don't like TAS or wanted a new series altogether, you don't have to worry about them doing storylines they've already done. Plus, it's not like the Lewalds are back as showrunners, they're just consulting. So, in the very least, we're getting some fresh blood creatively.

Maybe they will just "play their greatest hits" and it will just be a nostalgia fest, but it's hard to say this early.

[TheDeadSpace]

Looking forward to the show, but with Norm Spencer's and David Hemblen's passing, I'm not as excited.

May the show honor them well.

[shooshoomanjoe]

I completely misunderstood this. I didn't get why people were so excited of bringing back this series because I thought they were just going to rerun the same episodes. But nope, they are all new episodes, picked up from the last episode of the '90s series and it's going to be in the MCU expanded universe. Now I'm excited too.

[Spideyvinnegar]

So I guess it'll take almost one whole year until we have some relevant news about the plot, timeline etc right ?

[Grunty]

Something like Krakoa would be a hard sell yeah, and I doubt it'd be adapted like the way it is now, it most likely would be more like Genosha, or Utopia or whatever, basically, allowing mutant villains to still be villains.

I don't necessarily think stories we have in the comics now will never be adapted, but they are far less likely to happen, since adaptations are always about making money, usual X-Men are a safe bet, Krakoa is not.

But unlikely doesn't mean impossible, so hey, maybe someday, like, 50 years from now when some director is nostalgic of the Krakoa era lol.

Definetly possible yes. Maybe not even 20 years.

However i think there are two vital things to consider here.

One is that the current status quo is still ongoing. So nobody can tell how well the overall opinion on it will be years from now, which is always extremly risky, compared to adapating things which might be older but have proven their worth (positively or negatively).

Even picking up a badly recieved finished storyline is saver, because of how it's mistakes can be avoided, than to adapt something which is still ongoing.

The other thing to consider is that the whole radical different status quo worked for the comic readers at first because of how it used 50 years of continuity and especialy 20 years of mostly bleak state of things in the Marvel Universe, as justification for heavily altering it and characters to suit it's story.

Basicly any change was better than a repeat of the previous extinction stories.

Something which doesn't necessarily apply to the popular image of the X-men, because to most casual fans the X-men seem to exist in a certain state of where they are, who they are and how they get there. Which doesn't involve anything of what we see in the current comic status quo. The moment the X-men entered wider pop culture their potential for radical progression was finished (at least for the original heros).

A static image sure, but also combined with an audience that is much more open towards alternate takes and even progression towards something new, because the default state remains as fall back for different new takes.

Meanwhile the comics exist in a state where things remain clearly visible static (the same characters remaining the main characters even if they have nowhere to go anymore), while a perpetual continuity insist that it's a progressing world. Creating a different sensibility towards the franchise than the wider audience which does not read the comics (and can't easily get into them).

So something which works for the comic readers, will likely work differently if not at all for the wider audience.

Krakoa can work in adapations, no doubt, but not as THE status quo and it will likely go through some heavy alteration beforehand to fit into a much lighter continuity.

Heh, guess grass is greener on the other side, 'cause Spidey's getting another high school adaptation, one that is MCU canon even (for now at least), and the response to it is, mixed, well, at least in this website, dunno how more casual fans are reacting.

From what i see, the reaction is generaly favorable and accepting of it. Because it's a new take on one of several familiar status quos for an established hero.

It should also be noted that both the animated series of the 90's and the first movie trilogy of the early 2000's, which did a major part in bringing in a whole generation of casual fans, did not even feature Peter Parker in high school. In both version there was much more focus on him being a young adult university student.

Which means that the modern casual audience allready has two alternate takes on Spiderman as equal fitting settings for the character, which they seemingly embraced with no issue. High schooler vs. adult university student.

Likewise Into the Spiderverse featured two different takes on Peter Parker in different potential states of his life, fully graduated, successfull and dynamic adult super hero vs. washed up jaded but still moraly intact veteran super hero. Also seemingly accepted by the audience with little to no problem.

[Thirteen]

They had to outsource to a new animation studio for the last season because the previous one had shut down. They tried to do new, simpler designs to make it easier on the studio. It was supposed to look like this!

Very cool. I've never seen this before. Thanks for sharing.

[Kurt LeBeau]

that looks awesome! seriously, Id love to see Psylocke, Sunfire and Angel joining the roster. I know its unlikely they add 3 new members... but at least 2 new members should be a mandate, to make it feel fresh from the TAS era. Just 2 new members would add a lot of new dynamics and relationships.
Fingers crossed its on the plans.

[ChildOfTheAtom]

While X-men Evolution made me an X-men fan

I think this is the actual issue. if this was a evolution revival I think that era of fans would be more receptive. Also this seems to another kind of scenario I’ve always noticed but applied to animation. My feelings that there are not many true X-MEN fans in the hardcore base only varying degrees of X-MAN fans who only care about their favorites. So since TAS wasn’t their favorite and that anything that came before their time is irrelevant the news gets hated on. jmo

[bat39]

Definetly possible yes. Maybe not even 20 years.

However i think there are two vital things to consider here.

One is that the current status quo is still ongoing. So nobody can tell how well the overall opinion on it will be years from now, which is always extremly risky, compared to adapating things which might be older but have proven their worth (positively or negatively).

Even picking up a badly recieved finished storyline is saver, because of how it's mistakes can be avoided, than to adapt something which is still ongoing.

The other thing to consider is that the whole radical different status quo worked for the comic readers at first because of how it used 50 years of continuity and especialy 20 years of mostly bleak state of things in the Marvel Universe, as justification for heavily altering it and characters to suit it's story.

Basicly any change was better than a repeat of the previous extinction stories.

Something which doesn't necessarily apply to the popular image of the X-men, because to most casual fans the X-men seem to exist in a certain state of where they are, who they are and how they get there. Which doesn't involve anything of what we see in the current comic status quo. The moment the X-men entered wider pop culture their potential for radical progression was finished (at least for the original heros).

A static image sure, but also combined with an audience that is much more open towards alternate takes and even progression towards something new, because the default state remains as fall back for different new takes.

Meanwhile the comics exist in a state where things remain clearly visible static (the same characters remaining the main characters even if they have nowhere to go anymore), while a perpetual continuity insist that it's a progressing world. Creating a different sensibility towards the franchise than the wider audience which does not read the comics (and can't easily get into them).

So something which works for the comic readers, will likely work differently if not at all for the wider audience.

Krakoa can work in adapations, no doubt, but not as THE status quo and it will likely go through some heavy alteration beforehand to fit into a much lighter continuity.



From what i see, the reaction is generaly favorable and accepting of it. Because it's a new take on one of several familiar status quos for an established hero.

It should also be noted that both the animated series of the 90's and the first movie trilogy of the early 2000's, which did a major part in bringing in a whole generation of casual fans, did not even feature Peter Parker in high school. In both version there was much more focus on him being a young adult university student.

Which means that the modern casual audience allready has two alternate takes on Spiderman as equal fitting settings for the character, which they seemingly embraced with no issue. High schooler vs. adult university student.

Likewise Into the Spiderverse featured two different takes on Peter Parker in different potential states of his life, fully graduated, successfull and dynamic adult super hero vs. washed up jaded but still moraly intact veteran super hero. Also seemingly accepted by the audience with little to no problem.

While with Spider-Man, the tendency has largely been to make him a high-schooler, you're right that him being a college student is the next most popular status quo (largely due to the Raimi movies IMO, though the TAS does still have an impact). Ultimately, it comes down to the Lee/Dikto ''high school'' era and the Lee/Romita ''college'' era being the basis for most adaptations of the character - with a few later elements and characters, most notably the Alien Costume/Venom saga and more recently the likes of Miles Morales, thrown in.

Into the Spiderverse was actually the first major adaptation (barring the TAS I guess) which was ready to show us a grown-up Peter past college who was married to MJ. Then again, the conceit of Into the Spiderverse is that Peter Parker was the original established veteran Spider-Man, and you have high-schooler Miles Morales who's the cool new protagonist.

My point is that people are comfortable with a certain status quo for Spider-Man - young high-schooler (or college student) who fights classic villains like the Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Vulture, Venom etc., works for J Jonah Jameson (though that's increasingly becoming less of a factor) and dates MJ (or sometimes Gwen Stacy). But even if one were to go from there to an older married Peter with another job, it wouldn't be that much of a leap, because Spider-Man as a character and as a concept is pretty simple.

With the X-men, the familiar status quo is the X-men being based at the Mansion, and led by Professor Xavier. The lineups may vary, though usually Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm, and Jean Grey are a given (with Beast, Rogue, Nightcrawler, Iceman, Shadowcat, Colossus, Gambit, Jubilee etc. among the popular options to fill out the team). This is what the vast majority of people who are even aware of the X-men as a franchise and/or have consumed some X-men related media think is the fundamental set-up of the team, and it's what the vast majority of adaptations have gone with. It's what the first major, and possibly the most iconic, adaptation, namely the 90's TAS, went with. Now you can play around with this set-up - having the iconic X-men as teenagers in a world unaware of mutants (X-men Evolution), have the X-men as teachers in a full-blown school for mutant kids (the movies), even stretch it to Xavier mentally time-traveling from the future and appointing Wolverine as his successor instead of Cyclops (you can guess which one this is ) But I think, at this point, something like Krakoa, or even Genosha (or really any status quo from the last 15 years or so) isn't necessarily going to land well with the mass audience. Certainly not if you lead with it.

[Lukmendes]

Definetly possible yes. Maybe not even 20 years.

However i think there are two vital things to consider here.

One is that the current status quo is still ongoing. So nobody can tell how well the overall opinion on it will be years from now, which is always extremly risky, compared to adapating things which might be older but have proven their worth (positively or negatively).

Even picking up a badly recieved finished storyline is saver, because of how it's mistakes can be avoided, than to adapt something which is still ongoing.

The other thing to consider is that the whole radical different status quo worked for the comic readers at first because of how it used 50 years of continuity and especialy 20 years of mostly bleak state of things in the Marvel Universe, as justification for heavily altering it and characters to suit it's story.

Basicly any change was better than a repeat of the previous extinction stories.

Something which doesn't necessarily apply to the popular image of the X-men, because to most casual fans the X-men seem to exist in a certain state of where they are, who they are and how they get there. Which doesn't involve anything of what we see in the current comic status quo. The moment the X-men entered wider pop culture their potential for radical progression was finished (at least for the original heros).

A static image sure, but also combined with an audience that is much more open towards alternate takes and even progression towards something new, because the default state remains as fall back for different new takes.

Meanwhile the comics exist in a state where things remain clearly visible static (the same characters remaining the main characters even if they have nowhere to go anymore), while a perpetual continuity insist that it's a progressing world. Creating a different sensibility towards the franchise than the wider audience which does not read the comics (and can't easily get into them).

So something which works for the comic readers, will likely work differently if not at all for the wider audience.

Krakoa can work in adapations, no doubt, but not as THE status quo and it will likely go through some heavy alteration beforehand to fit into a much lighter continuity.

On top of all of that, Krakoa is also something the characters have to earn to feel like there's supposed to be any meaning to it, so if an adaptation is going to use it, it can't start with it, or it'll feel flat.

It's like if we get an adaptation where Magneto is said to be the strongest villain ever, and then the X-Men fight him a minute later and he's knocked down quickly and the characters celebrate for finally managing to defeat him, it'll make the audiences think "Was he really that strong?" if him being strong isn't shown before, similarly, Krakoa needs an universe to establish that being a mutant is really, really bad for the characters to eventually be desperate enough to move into it (Even if the whole "Moira did mental time traveling a bunch of times" bit is removed).

As for stories needing to wait to be adapted, that Marvel's Spider-Man adapted Superior Spider-Man surprisingly fast, since it was just a few years after it was done, but then again, it was finished, and it's not as big as Krakoa.

From what i see, the reaction is generaly favorable and accepting of it. Because it's a new take on one of several familiar status quos for an established hero.

Hardly a new take, it's the fourth cartoon in a row with a high school Spidey, and one which's, so far, part of MCU, so while it can fill the holes MCU's movies intentionally left, not much of a new take in this, at least in theory, but who knows, maybe it'll surprise.

It should also be noted that both the animated series of the 90's and the first movie trilogy of the early 2000's, which did a major part in bringing in a whole generation of casual fans, did not even feature Peter Parker in high school. In both version there was much more focus on him being a young adult university student.

Which means that the modern casual audience allready has two alternate takes on Spiderman as equal fitting settings for the character, which they seemingly embraced with no issue. High schooler vs. adult university student.

Likewise Into the Spiderverse featured two different takes on Peter Parker in different potential states of his life, fully graduated, successfull and dynamic adult super hero vs. washed up jaded but still moraly intact veteran super hero. Also seemingly accepted by the audience with little to no problem.

The problem is how Marvel on the last years pushes teenager Peter way more, like it's the only status quo he has, to the point he's made into an amateur, working alongside teen characters who debutted long after he did, and being mentored by someone, and the last one is just bizarre since Spidey was never meant to be a sidekick.

It's not so bad, since teenager Peter isn't the only one they go for, 'cause as you pointed out, there's Spider-Verse's movie, and Peter B. is a protagonist alongside Miles, and there's the PS4 game where he's 23, but between those, these more recent adaptations and MCU really like to keep him young and inexperienced, though thankfuly Spectacular, one of the "Teen Peter" adaptations, had him really competent, and he was supposed to age over time, but it's still noticeable that adaptations like to make him into a newbie.

While with Spider-Man, the tendency has largely been to make him a high-schooler, you're right that him being a college student is the next most popular status quo (largely due to the Raimi movies IMO, though the TAS does still have an impact). Ultimately, it comes down to the Lee/Dikto ''high school'' era and the Lee/Romita ''college'' era being the basis for most adaptations of the character - with a few later elements and characters, most notably the Alien Costume/Venom saga and more recently the likes of Miles Morales, thrown in.

No adaptation does high school like Ditko's run, mostly because there wasn't much to it besides Peter being bullied and it had way less importance overall than the Daily Bugle, even Spectacular Spider-Man, the cartoon that is closer to spirit to Ditko's run, takes more after Ultimate when it comes to Peter's high school life, and that's how it goes overall, the high school adaptations take more after Ultimate, ASM movie even has a direct scene from Ultimate, that basketball scene.

It's what the first major, and possibly the most iconic, adaptation, namely the 90's TAS, went with. Now you can play around with this set-up - having the iconic X-men as teenagers in a world unaware of mutants (X-men Evolution), have the X-men as teachers in a full-blown school for mutant kids (the movies), even stretch it to Xavier mentally time-traveling from the future and appointing Wolverine as his successor instead of Cyclops (you can guess which one this is ) But I think, at this point, something like Krakoa, or even Genosha (or really any status quo from the last 15 years or so) isn't necessarily going to land well with the mass audience. Certainly not if you lead with it.

Yeah, Genosha in WATXM was only used to make Magneto different, y'know, leader of a nation and all, not the overall setting.

[Frontier]

She did voice an older Claire in the Degeneration movie at least (She would be in her 30's there), but yeah, rest of the time she voiced Claire, it was either in Resident Evil 2, Resident Evil Code Veronica, and their retellings retellings and what ifs lol.

Doubt she would have a problem with voicing older Claire in general though, it's just that Capcom sidelines Claire a lot, and I think something Union related prevents Court from voicing Claire again.

How am I only just now realizing the voice of Jubilee was also Claire's VA for years?

[Lukmendes]

How am I only just now realizing the voice of Jubilee was also Claire's VA for years?

In your defense, they sound nothing alike.

I remember hearing Court's voice in interviews and it's basically the same as Claire's, and I assumed that's how her voice acted characters were usually like, then I saw her twitter and she mentions on her profile she voiced Jubilee, I checked out Jubilee's voice and my reaction was basically a baffled "what" lol.

Like, come on, can you imagine Claire saying something like this?



Kinda hard to relate those two characters with stuff like this .

[jmc247]

Yeah, Genosha in WATXM was only used to make Magneto different, y'know, leader of a nation and all, not the overall setting.

While I believe TAS did the mutant metaphor much better then any X-Men animated series and actually squeezed more great storylines out of Genosha then any of the others I will say mutant controlled Genosha in WATXM was a big plus to the characters around Magneto meaning Wanda, Pietro, Lorna, the Acolytes, etc. Magneto having a faction to himself allowed these characters or at very least his kids to be semi regulars and distinct from the X-Men in a way that created drama and squeezed out good stories. That just doesn't work when they are all one big happy family.

[Wally West]

I'm hype! 90s kids, this is our time. lol

Hell yea

Between this and the Batman animated series revival im hyped!