Has the Spider-Man editorial hate ever been this large and transparent?

[Matt14teg]

Just saying in case you guys believed that they were gonna adress Kamala fridging claims this year, don't expect it. Gage sort of confirmed on twitter that it probably won't be till the run ends & I'm of the notion that they are gonna go media silent for the rest of the run LMAO.

[Garlador]

Just saying in case you guys believed that they were gonna adress Kamala fridging claims this year, don't expect it. Gage sort of confirmed on twitter that it probably won't be till the run ends & I'm of the notion that they are gonna go media silent for the rest of the run LMAO.

I’ve been saying that since the start. They could be 100% in panic mode, but they’re a business and it’s bad business to address this controversy while they have a book to promote and sell. That’s always been how they handle it.

Slott’s apologies for Silk’s treatment didn’t come until long after the story was concluded, for instance.

[Bruce Wayne]

Just saying in case you guys believed that they were gonna adress Kamala fridging claims this year, don't expect it. Gage sort of confirmed on twitter that it probably won't be till the run ends & I'm of the notion that they are gonna go media silent for the rest of the run LMAO.

Probably a good thing. They have probably lost control of the narrative.

[Alex_Of_X]

That's not the advice you're giving fans of the marriage.
Yes, classically when Peter gets knocked down by a massive weight of machinery he then gets up. And then he saves Aunt May. The point of Peter getting up when he's downed is that then he does some good. He saves someone. He beats the villain. He doesn't just get knocked down again. He gets up because he has a chance of winning.
Peter is the Amazing Spider-man, not the Amazing Sisyphus.

Nah, he saves the day but stands up his date, and she dumps him, and he sulks in his room, a spidey-shaped shadow on the wall behind him

and eventually he says To hell with it! Spidey no more! But then his guilt catches up to him and he dons the mask again, and goes on and on and on

He is sort of Sisiphus in that way. Except with every roll of the boulder, he saves lives. I think Slott captured it beautifully: first in 801, with the "every day spidey saves someone's uncle" bit, and later in that anniversary story where Peter is 60 and bedridden and the whole city comes by to say thanks.

I also think its fundamentally what OMD hinges on: Peter would save his aunt's life, if he could. Even at the cost of his own happy marriage

p.s. also, i mean, live your truth! clamor to get married spidey back. I'm just not sure I comprehend engaging in something in a strictly negative way. I follow plenty of stuff that i find flawed, but ultimately worthwhile. But hate-following for 16+ years? yeesh.

I wonder how long gwen fans clamored for her return after 1973...I guess Kurt of this here CBR board still does!

[Garlador]

I also think its fundamentally what OMD hinges on: Peter would save his aunt's life, if he could. Even at the cost of his own happy marriage.

OMD has been beaten to death, but his actions to save May weren’t altruistic. He just couldn’t stomach the guilt and wanted a solution that absolved him of the responsibility (very ANTI-Spider-Man), and he did it at the expense of Mary Jane’s happiness, the expense of a child they were shown was in the cards, and at the expense of May’s own wishes to let her go and be with Ben.

And since OMD wiped his memory of everything, he doesn’t even have to struggle with or come to terms with that decision. There’s a reason it remains one of the worst - if not THE worst - moment in Spider-Man history.

p.s. also, i mean, live your truth! clamor to get married spidey back. I'm just not sure I comprehend engaging in something in a strictly negative way. I follow plenty of stuff that i find flawed, but ultimately worthwhile. But hate-following for 16+ years? yeesh. does!

I’ve never purchased a Spider-Man comic since, with Lost Hunt and Renew Your Vows being the only exceptions (they’re marriage-focused stories).

But I WANT to love and support the book again. It was there for me in a very dark period of my childhood. Spider-Man was my hero. He was a husband who never stopped fighting for his wife and marriage. I hope that character shows up again one day.

I wonder how long gwen fans clamored for her return after 1973...I guess Kurt of this here CBR board still does!

Gwen was by their own admission not a terribly interesting character. There was also that time she allied with a white supremacist.

I think Spider-Gwen has completely surpassed the public perception of “Gwen Stacy” in the Spider-Man world. For the better.

[Daibhidh]

I'm just not sure I comprehend engaging in something in a strictly negative way. I follow plenty of stuff that i find flawed, but ultimately worthwhile. But hate-following for 16+ years? yeesh.

Sixteen years to wait for the next installment of something you love? It's almost like being a G.R.R. Martin fan.
For the record, I started following Earth-616 Spider-man regularly with the Spencer run and then read back issues.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

p.s. also, i mean, live your truth! clamor to get married spidey back. I'm just not sure I comprehend engaging in something in a strictly negative way. I follow plenty of stuff that i find flawed, but ultimately worthwhile. But hate-following for 16+ years? yeesh.

There are several problems with this idea.

1. Spidey holds a lot of meaning for people, and Marvel has a monopoly on him since he isn't public domain. People aren't just going to "go away" if Marvel says so.

2. "Hate reading for 16 years" isn't what actually happened. Slott's run teased Peter and MJ getting back together multiple times, and people tuned in expecting an OMD undoing. Then Spencer came along, and people liked the book because it was more like pre-OMD. Then Wells' mystery box came along, and people tuned in because Lowe promised resolution with ASM#26. It's only very, very recently when people started tuning in just to "hate read"... even then, I see more people making fun of the book than just hating it.

3. You're not accounting for all the Millennials and Zoomers who weren't reading in 2007. Even if we assume everyone here is hate-reading right now (which I already explained is not what happened), clearly a lot of people are too young to have done it for 16 years.

[ARkadelphia]

His fake ass name was Owen Watson. Paul doesn't get any billing on those kids names. Paul is, at best, a nanny for them.

Damn! That’s all true.

[Matt14teg]

So checking over the ICV2 Sales i was kind of curious how 26 was doing for sales in both may and June I was wondering if the sales are really were going great for them. It seems that for the half week of May they were trending for the #4 slot but post june it dropped substantially to 12. Is this indicative of anything sales wise or is it just a kind of a sign of a down trend for the series. on a side note spider had 3 days in june & had ended at #18.

[Mister Mets]

So checking over the ICV2 Sales i was kind of curious how 26 was doing for sales in both may and June I was wondering if the sales are really were going great for them. It seems that for the half week of May they were trending for the #4 slot but post june it dropped substantially to 12. Is this indicative of anything sales wise or is it just a kind of a sign of a down trend for the series. on a side note spider had 3 days in june & had ended at #18.

#27 topped the sales chart.

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...mics-june-2023

Amazing Spider-Man #26 was in 12h place, but it was also in 4th place last month. So its total sales are better than either month's data indicates.

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...omics-may-2023

#28 is in 18th place but that may just be because the data is based on point-of-sale, and it's only going to include a week of sales for that issue.

[blank]

So checking over the ICV2 Sales i was kind of curious how 26 was doing for sales in both may and June I was wondering if the sales are really were going great for them. It seems that for the half week of May they were trending for the #4 slot but post june it dropped substantially to 12. Is this indicative of anything sales wise or is it just a kind of a sign of a down trend for the series. on a side note spider had 3 days in june & had ended at #18.

I wouldn't necessarily say that it's indicative of a downward trend in sales as ICV2 doesn't provide exact numbers so for all we know the sales at #12 in June plus the sales at #4 in May could exceed the sales of the best selling issue of the month Batman #135(but again we don't know, it should be noted that the marketing for #26 was significantly larger than any Spider-Man comic in the entire run, but was also hampered by fairly severe leaks). Also it should be noted that #27 was best selling run at the month, but yes #28 performing so poorly despite being sold for the exact same number of days on sale as #26(as the period of measurement ended on the 3rd of June and the comic began selling on the 31st of May) did is a little odd(but that can arguably be explained by the holiday and significantly smaller marketing), unfortunately we won't really find out the true performance of #28 until next month(but it's clear that it isn't a great outlook, as the first week of sales is generally the highest).

[Lee]

#27 topped the sales chart.

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...mics-june-2023

Amazing Spider-Man #26 was in 12h place, but it was also in 4th place last month. So its total sales are better than either month's data indicates.

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...omics-may-2023

#28 is in 18th place but that may just be because the data is based on point-of-sale, and it's only going to include a week of sales for that issue.

Amazing Spider-Man having three spots in the top 18 is very good. Of the other 15 titles there are six #1s, one #2 and two #800s. There are also two other Spider-Man titles in the top 18, Miles Morales: Spider-Man #7 and Edge of Spider-Verse #3, which featured the first solo Spider-Boy story. A strong showing from the Spider-Man line.

[Shunt]

That IS a hot take. I think Death of Jean DeWolff is like the second best Spidey Story of all time. A real heart wrenching thing that explores the limits of Spider-Man's morality. Peter David's best work.

Count me in the group of hot takes. It has some good moments, but the story really is a mess. There's the fridging (which was editorially mandated, Peter David didn't want to kill her at all), the disjointed pace, the serious OOC behaviour for both Parker and Murdock (nothing wrong with edgy Spider-Man stories, but his mood change wasn't developed at all- he's brutally beating delinquents from the very beginning, and Daredevil's role as a moral compass doesn't make any sense considering what was going on in his book at the time), Spider-Man and Daredevil incompetence dealing with the Sin Eater, the sexist implications of Jean's motivation to become a cop, the confusing message at the very end of the story...

Having said that, I sort of enjoyed it, but it's way overrated and it's way far from being David's best work. He even did a sequel trying to retcon and improve the Sin Eater's motivation although I'm not sure it worked.

[Lee]

I recall a podcast with Tom DeFalco where he briefly touched upon that story, and how in his opinion Spider-Man was acting like Daredevil and Daredevil was acting like Spider-Man.

[Xenon]

Yeah, I'm sure everyone involved wants readers to like their stuff (unpopular series are never good for business and if you make something, you want it to be well-received anyways). I agree we don't have all the puzzle pieces to know all the inside baseball and I'm also pretty sure that if it was true that the fans were right r.e. OMD failing (either financially or creatively), they would keep that under wraps. Guess the point is, if after everything that happened since 2007, if Marvel is still refusing to undo OMD, I really don't see how anything will change their minds (esp. if the allegations that OMD really did trigger a loss of readers and that the creators believe that OMD must never be undone so the fans won't "win" are true).

It is baffling. How a group of people could stick with something for so long when its so obviously wrong is beyond me. And maybe they're not all the way there yet either. But almost everyone else is, and I definitely think the position has shifted, even if it isn't all the way there.

Okay. Kinda thought the memes seem to have a more bitter streak to them than the Bailey ones, but point taken r.e. how toxic things have become.

You're not wrong there, there's definitely omore bitterness to the Paul thing. With Bailey it's more of a "this is dumb" thing.

I see what you're saying about them both being character that kill sacred cows. Suppose Bailey seems to be less damaging to me, maybe because while Spider-Man shouldn't have a sidekick (if they want him to be a mentor, Miles is already a thing), there's no character assassination involved, if that makes any sense. Honestly, I don't think either Paul or Bailey are going to last after their creators are done (Peter/MJ is too iconic to erase, not matter how badly the Powers That Be want it gone and Bailey is too off-brand and covers ground that belongs to Miles), so it might not matter that much in the grand scheme of things.

This is also true. Bailey will never appear in a non-Slott comic except to die I would guess, and I would be surprised if other even care to address it that much. He's a problem, but one easily dismissed. What Paul represents is much more problematic.