Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Appreciation 2023

[NOCTPHOENIX]

I would say execution for me.

We keep hearing about how much Bernard means to Tim but it's never really shown.

Along with trying to push him as Tim's greatest love so soon which makes his relationship with Stephanie a joke, and how they handled his breakup with Stephanie in the worst way possible along with fact THIS is the guy they paired him with

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[NOCTPHOENIX]

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and the way they keep them pushing as super close friends or someone who knew Tim intimately when he didn't.

[The Lucky One]

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and the way they keep them pushing as super close friends or someone who knew Tim intimately when he didn't.

It’s a different universe, full of similar-but-distinct versions of the same characters. Pre-Flashpoint, Alan Scott had internal narration about how hot he found his wife, and that obviously doesn’t work with current Alan. I understand (and share) the impulse, but we can’t think of them as the same characters as their pre-Flashpoint counterparts… they aren’t.

[Jackalope89]

It’s a different universe, full of similar-but-distinct versions of the same characters. Pre-Flashpoint, Alan Scott had internal narration about how hot he found his wife, and that obviously doesn’t work with current Alan. I understand (and share) the impulse, but we can’t think of them as the same characters as their pre-Flashpoint counterparts… they aren’t.

Except, we're in a period where the top people at DC have said that "everything is canon". With pre-Flashpoint events being referenced throughout.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

It’s a different universe, full of similar-but-distinct versions of the same characters. Pre-Flashpoint, Alan Scott had internal narration about how hot he found his wife, and that obviously doesn’t work with current Alan. I understand (and share) the impulse, but we can’t think of them as the same characters as their pre-Flashpoint counterparts… they aren’t.

The thing is Tim's current writer said she picked Bernard due to his "history" with Tim and tries to use that meta history to justify the pairing....but as we said it doesn't exists at all. Also adding to what Jackalope said there is that as well. Also the thing is if they aren't the same versions then this means for Tim and Bernard we are getting a history that we will NEVER see and only are told with no meta knowledge to do the building of their "relationship" and since it will be left to that it falls short

[Konja7]

Except, we're in a period where the top people at DC have said that "everything is canon". With pre-Flashpoint events being referenced throughout.

It's really everything is canon except what isn't (and we still invent many things that never happened).

For example: Now, Dick as Robin has pants.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Not necessarily. In Dick's date with Kara he had no pants.

[Konja7]

Not necessarily. In Dick's date with Kara he had no pants.

That doesn't affect what I said. Currently, most stories established in the past have Dick Robin using pants (which didn't really happen in comics).

Don't misunderstand me, I like Dick Robin suit with pants. However, that still shows DC doesn't really follow the previous stories.

[The Lucky One]

Also the thing is if they aren't the same versions then this means for Tim and Bernard we are getting a history that we will NEVER see and only are told with no meta knowledge to do the building of their "relationship" and since it will be left to that it falls short

Correct, yes.

Think of it like immediately-post-Crisis DC: “All the old stories happened basically the way you remember, pretty much, in most cases. Except where it contradicts something new a writer wants to do, in which case the new version overwrites the old. So if we need to have Black Canary be a founding Leaguer instead of Wonder Woman, or make Batman and Superman’s relationship much tenser, or give Robin retro-pants, that’s our prerogative.”

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Correct, yes.

Think of it like immediately-post-Crisis DC: “All the old stories happened basically the way you remember, pretty much, in most cases. Except where it contradicts something new a writer wants to do, in which case the new version overwrites the old. So if we need to have Black Canary be a founding Leaguer instead of Wonder Woman, or make Batman and Superman’s relationship much tenser, or give Robin retro-pants, that’s our prerogative.”

Yeah but in those cases we are dealing with established characters with their own history and dynamic along with a meta history that can make those changes feasible. Doesn't work for Tim and Bernard as again it's all telling/not showing and the meta history we have is just him being an annoying friend to Tim he considered an idiot.

[skyvolt2000]

Correct, yes.

Think of it like immediately-post-Crisis DC: “All the old stories happened basically the way you remember, pretty much, in most cases. Except where it contradicts something new a writer wants to do, in which case the new version overwrites the old. So if we need to have Black Canary be a founding Leaguer instead of Wonder Woman, or make Batman and Superman’s relationship much tenser, or give Robin retro-pants, that’s our prerogative.”

In Bernard's case he only had 6 appearances in Robin and that was it. It was all nothing of substance.

I mean it would be one thing if they used Hudman or better yet Sebastian Ives.

Or use a retired teen hero that unretires. It's not like DC is NOT packed with used teens.

Relative Heroes or Young Heroes in Love anyone??? The Shade the Changeling Man (River-who was already gay).

[agentofthebat]

So now what happens to Tim?

[dietrich]

So now what happens to Tim?

He is Robin in Gotham and he is dating bernard or most likely he is Red Robin next to Batman and he is dating Bernard.

he isn't going to disappear and he isn't about to date Steph no matter how much folks hate on Bernard.

If Dc are smart and want to make Tim explode. Have him start flirting with Jon Kent. Twitter will have a melt down which is exactly what they are hoping for. Comics don't bring in much so the fact that Tim's solo tanked isn't a biggie the fact is WbDiscovery is still getting the gains. Tim being Bi is good for WBDiscovery regardless of if his comics sell

Especially since general good will and favour on social media is far more value to the bottomline of WBDiscovery than if Tim Drake solo sells 50k a month.

Tim will be fine. He tends to fail upwards. He's always done even before he became a minority. any other Robin and a series tanking might be detrimental but not for Tim.

[Aahz]

In Bernard's case he only had 6 appearances in Robin and that was it. It was all nothing of substance.

I mean it would be one thing if they used Hudman or better yet Sebastian Ives.

I don't think that Hudson was really much more important than Bernard, and at least based on the DC Database he had also only 11 appearances.

Ives was iirc the only one of his friends that was somewhat relevant and close to Tim.

[Pohzee]

6539438[/URL]]He is Robin in Gotham and he is dating bernard or most likely he is Red Robin next to Batman and he is dating Bernard.

he isn't going to disappear and he isn't about to date Steph no matter how much folks hate on Bernard.

If Dc are smart and want to make Tim explode. Have him start flirting with Jon Kent. Twitter will have a melt down which is exactly what they are hoping for. Comics don't bring in much so the fact that Tim's solo tanked isn't a biggie the fact is WbDiscovery is still getting the gains. Tim being Bi is good for WBDiscovery regardless of if his comics sell

Especially since general good will and favour on social media is far more value to the bottomline of WBDiscovery than if Tim Drake solo sells 50k a month.

Tim will be fine. He tends to fail upwards. He's always done even before he became a minority. any other Robin and a series tanking might be detrimental but not for Tim.

I do kind of think that if DC had made Connor bi instead of Jon and paired Tim with Connor that definitely would've been a more popular pairing then what we got. It'd be interesting if pairing Tim with Jon satisfied those fans for Tim/Kon although the criss-crossing of Superboys and their respective Robins gets pretty messy.