DC Media: TV Shows, Animated Movies and Video Games

[marhawkman]

No discussion on how Timm actually plans to utilise Harley in his new show which is far more intriguing for discussion

Well, this is getting at the really weird part. As one commenter put it... this version of Harley.... is more like Alexis in several ways than Harley. Which is very.... why??? So... now we're to the point of... Harley in name only. Doesn't look or act like Harley.

[James Cameron]

I thought it implied I would rather push and use characters of color who were introduced as such?

Nope. You should have just said that to begin with. Your initial comment was ignorant.

False equivalency. WHY does it need to be a near copy of Harley Quinn to be a replacement?

YOU are the one who is doubling down on that. The person you're going after... didn't go there. And THAT is what you're raging about. YOU say "interchangeable"... but no one else did.

A near copy? I never said it has to be a near cooy. He just made the racist comment and I pointed out why and how it was racist. Of course I'm doubling down on that. Whatever he intended doesn't erase the issue

[Laser_Man]

Nope. You should have just said that to begin with. Your initial comment was ignorant.



A near copy? I never said it has to be a near cooy. He just made the racist comment and I pointed out why and how it was racist. Of course I'm doubling down on that. Whatever he intended doesn't erase the issue

I think words like "racist" are very loaded terms and need to be used carefully lest their meaning gets diluted.

Saying something harmless with no ill intention which can maybe misconstrued as racism, is not the same as saying something racist.

[Johnny]

He is absolutely setting a poor example. I did not call him racist, I said what he said was racist, and it was not for no reason - I stated the reason. I never simply decided anything, I pointed out why what he said was harmful and he chose not to acknowledge it. If the point was about giving chances to characters who don't get a chance to shine then he could have easily said that instead of suggesting a completely random unrelated Asian character "instead of Asian American Harley."

It's like saying all Asians are alike and can be swapped in and out of roles without considering their individual identities and that is a dangerous thing to leave unacknowledged if you are a moderator; it perpetuates harmful stereotypes and is all around just a gross thing to say. I even said I agreed with his point about race bending - that doesn't mean what he said was not racist.

Except that's not what happened, Frontier didn't mention any random Asian character, they mentioned a character with a lot of history with Batman who's being underutilized and could've used the exposure instead, rather than racebending someone who gets more exposure than Wonder Woman. There's nothing harmful in pointing that out, this argument would have more validity if it had been two random underutilized characters, if someone for instance asked "Why have Doctor Light there when you can have Ryan Choi instead", then I can understand the problematic implications, but your reasoning doesn't work when the characters in question are in a very different place on the DC totem pole and Shiva is not a random character with no history with the main character. Again you are the one turning this into a problem, while accusing others of being problematic.

[Digifiend]

You answered your own question. They do it to make big headlines that they raceswapped a popular character, since otherwise noone cares. The Harley Quinn show made Golden Glider Asian too and noone cared cause casuals don't know who she is. Here the headline of an article about the very first look of the new Batman show is all about Harley Quinn being Asian-American. The details about changing her origin to disassociate her from The Joker almost seem secondary.

Has Harley's show used Captain Cold? He's Golden Glider's brother, so if she's Asian then he should be too.

As for the race swapped Harley, my only issue with it is that it means her usually blonde hair is now black, the same colour as the other ladies shown in the posted screencaps.

[James Cameron]

I think words like "racist" are very loaded terms and need to be used carefully lest their meaning gets diluted.

Saying something harmless with no ill intention which can maybe misconstrued as racism, is not the same as saying something racist.

Again, easy to say if it isn't your lived experience.

Except that's not what happened, Frontier didn't mention any random Asian character, they mentioned a character with a lot of history with Batman who's being underutilized and could've used the exposure instead, rather than racebending someone who gets more exposure than Wonder Woman. There's nothing harmful in pointing that out, this argument would have more validity if it had been two random underutilized characters, if someone for instance asked "Why have Doctor Light there when you can have Ryan Choi instead", then I can understand the problematic implications, but your reasoning doesn't work when the characters in question are in a very different place on the DC totem pole and Shiva is not a random character with no history with the main character. Again you are the one turning this into a problem, while accusing others of being problematic.

I hear what you're saying, but regardless of context, suggesting a character of the same race as an alternative to racebending still overlooks authentic representation and perpetuates a negative stereotype. Of course the intention was most likely not explicitly racist, but this idea of prioritizing characters based solely on their existing prominence/history without considering the broader implications of representation is part of what ends up marginalizing minority characters. And again, it reinforces the notion that certain characters are interchangeable or less deserving of opportunities for exposure.

Comments like the one Frontier made don't necessarily reflect his character but more the culture that permeates our society - dismissing legitimate concerns about representation seems unfair to me when this type of casual racism goes too far and ends up alienating more people from discussions than you realize. I think with topics like this it's important to consider all perspectives.

[Frontier]

Has Harley's show used Captain Cold? He's Golden Glider's brother, so if she's Asian then he should be too.

As for the race swapped Harley, my only issue with it is that it means her usually blonde hair is now black, the same colour as the other ladies shown in the posted screencaps.

I'm wondering if they're going to acknowledge she's Captain Cold's sister at all. They used Snart a lot in the last season but it never came up.

I mean, she could totally be Asian and still have blonde hair (even B:TAS Harley joked about not being a natural blonde) and even the pigtails, but they clearly want a very different look for this Harley.

[Laser_Man]

Again, easy to say if it isn't your lived experience.

Bro, people from my race are not even considered in movies and TV shows. Racism is a multi faceted evil so lots of people face it in different forms.

[HsssH]

Again, easy to say if it isn't your lived experience.



I hear what you're saying, but regardless of context, suggesting a character of the same race as an alternative to racebending still overlooks authentic representation and perpetuates a negative stereotype. Of course the intention was most likely not explicitly racist, but this idea of prioritizing characters based solely on their existing prominence/history without considering the broader implications of representation is part of what ends up marginalizing minority characters. And again, it reinforces the notion that certain characters are interchangeable or less deserving of opportunities for exposure.

Comments like the one Frontier made don't necessarily reflect his character but more the culture that permeates our society - dismissing legitimate concerns about representation seems unfair to me when this type of casual racism goes too far and ends up alienating more people from discussions than you realize. I think with topics like this it's important to consider all perspectives.

Drivel like this certainly alienates people from participating in discussions.

[James Cameron]

Drivel like this certainly alienates people from participating in discussions.

So better to acknowledge it than double down on the BS

Bro, people from my race are not even considered in movies and TV shows. Racism is a multi faceted evil so lots of people face it in different forms.

Exactly.

[HsssH]

So better to acknowledge it than double down on the BS

You are tripling down by now.

[James Cameron]

You are tripling down by now.

Yep. I won't let it go

[Laser_Man]

So better to acknowledge it than double down on the BS



Exactly.

Looking back, I was too hasty with my reply. I see your point now.

[Godlike13]

[marhawkman]

Bro, people from my race are not even considered in movies and TV shows. Racism is a multi faceted evil so lots of people face it in different forms.

Yeah, all this raging about "representation" in cinema and games... peeps ignore the EXISTENCE of my race completely. Like they act like only 2 or 3 races exist in the universe....

My "lived experience" is that most people pushing "representation" don't even know what "Sami" are.