Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Appreciation 2024

[CTTT]

also Tim in this recent trash run doesn't even remotely resemble the character that Chuck Dixon developed. I want to see Tim kicking some criminal butt. I am confused as to how when Damian comes along (and I love Damian) writers "don't know what to do with him." All 4 current and former Robins are distinct from each other. Dick was established as strong on his own and a team leader with the Titans and has been written well. Jason was an impulsive bad boy who was killed and brought back and has done well being Red Hood. Tim has been established as being tech savvy and being an even better detective at times than Bruce. It doesn't take rocket science to write Tim well. All that has to be done is look at past runs and go off of that.

[bat1987]

Rebirth Tim Robin by McFarlane up for pre-order: https://mcfarlane.com/toys/robin-tim...29%20Pre-Order

Great looking figure. Have it on pre order.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

also Tim in this recent trash run doesn't even remotely resemble the character that Chuck Dixon developed. I want to see Tim kicking some criminal butt. I am confused as to how when Damian comes along (and I love Damian) writers "don't know what to do with him." All 4 current and former Robins are distinct from each other. Dick was established as strong on his own and a team leader with the Titans and has been written well. Jason was an impulsive bad boy who was killed and brought back and has done well being Red Hood. Tim has been established as being tech savvy and being an even better detective at times than Bruce. It doesn't take rocket science to write Tim well. All that has to be done is look at past runs and go off of that.

They don't seem to want to invest in Tim. Damians last solo had Josh Williamson and great art and it was very good until Shadow War at least. Tim got a fan fic writer and awful Rossmo art.

[Konja7]

They don't seem to want to invest in Tim. Damians last solo had Josh Williamson and great art and it was very good until Shadow War at least. Tim got a fan fic writer and awful Rossmo art.

To be fair, I think Rossmo was a well-intentioned choice, since he is a relatively known artist. His art just doesn't work for Tim at all (even less for the current direction).

[dietrich]

also Tim in this recent trash run doesn't even remotely resemble the character that Chuck Dixon developed. I want to see Tim kicking some criminal butt. I am confused as to how when Damian comes along (and I love Damian) writers "don't know what to do with him." All 4 current and former Robins are distinct from each other. Dick was established as strong on his own and a team leader with the Titans and has been written well. Jason was an impulsive bad boy who was killed and brought back and has done well being Red Hood. Tim has been established as being tech savvy and being an even better detective at times than Bruce. It doesn't take rocket science to write Tim well. All that has to be done is look at past runs and go off of that.

"Tim has been established as being tech savvy and being even better detective at times than Bruce"

"It doesn't take rocket science"

"All one has to do is look at past runs and go off that"

No, Tim has never been better than Bruce
Being tech savvy and great detective isn't Tim's or ant Batfam's distinct trait. That's the required basic minimum for enrollment into the family.

This fundamental misunderstanding of what/who the character is is one of the biggest obstacles preventing the character from thriving or even progressing.

Tim was different from the other Robins because just like Robin's his based on [Carrie Kelley] he was an Everyman.
A relatable American teen that's supposed to be a stand in for the average 90's White comic reader.

Go back and look at the past runs.
He was conceived as a everyone's typical brother. Intelligent but not a brain or a great fighter or a gifted athlete.
However somewhere along the way as competition was introduced he's morphed into this poor man's batman.
This unrelatable 16 year old wunderkind who builds self repairing buildings.

There's nothing distinct about being a child prodigy in a family of child prodigies.
Nothing distinct about being batman lite when standing next to Bruce Wayne, Damian Wayne and Terry Mcginins.

Tim's genericness is what makes him distinct. Amongst the expectational, gifted, absurd and one offs, Tim's the basic that happened to get lucky then worked his butt off for the rest. He's You and me.

DC ie willingv and have been investing in Tim.
Consider the huge roll out for YJ by Bendis [DC even went so far as to make Tim's Young Justice the facr of their Teen Imprint despite them not matching the Siper Sons in sales]

Tim's solo had far more promotion than Damian and four times the number of Variants for the first issue and each following issue of Tim Drake Robin had more variants than Damian's.

Robin 2021 was written by Williamson and drawn by a new comer. Tim's solo was drawn by a well known artist who had just come off Harley Quin and written by a successful screen writer [Supernatural] and the fan favourite writer who wrote Tim's coming out and Robin Eternal.

Tim's solo objectively had the more costly roll out and investment.

When it comes to the quality of the writing, it takes a lot of creativity and intelligence to write a character that one ups Bruce 'I fell down to earth from space and survived' Wayne or showcase the intelligence of a character more brilliant than a Billionaire capable of building an AI like Zur well.

This is why writers resort to dumbing down others to make Tim seem smart or simply telling us he's smart. Because they are not rocket scientists.

DC has always invested in tim the problem is that the market has changed, the Bat universe has changed, Tim Drake has changed.

The Tim who carried a long running series is gone, the landscape that enabled Tim to/where he was able to carry a long running solo is gone.

If his fans and writers don't even who the character is and what makes him unique. What hope is there?

[NOCTPHOENIX]

"Tim has been established as being tech savvy and being even better detective at times than Bruce"

"It doesn't take rocket science"

"All one has to do is look at past runs and go off that"

No, Tim has never been better than Bruce
Being tech savvy and great detective isn't Tim's or ant Batfam's distinct trait. That's the required basic minimum for enrollment into the family.

This fundamental misunderstanding of what/who the character is is one of the biggest obstacles preventing the character from thriving or even progressing.

Tim was different from the other Robins because just like Robin's his based on [Carrie Kelley] he was an Everyman.
A relatable American teen that's supposed to be a stand in for the average 90's White comic reader.

Go back and look at the past runs.
He was conceived as a everyone's typical brother. Intelligent but not a brain or a great fighter or a gifted athlete.
However somewhere along the way as competition was introduced he's morphed into this poor man's batman.
This unrelatable 16 year old wunderkind who builds self repairing buildings.

There's nothing distinct about being a child prodigy in a family of child prodigies.
Nothing distinct about being batman lite when standing next to Bruce Wayne, Damian Wayne and Terry Mcginins.

Tim's genericness is what makes him distinct. Amongst the expectational, gifted, absurd and one offs, Tim's the basic that happened to get lucky then worked his butt off for the rest. He's You and me.

DC ie willingv and have been investing in Tim.
Consider the huge roll out for YJ by Bendis [DC even went so far as to make Tim's Young Justice the facr of their Teen Imprint despite them not matching the Siper Sons in sales]

Tim's solo had far more promotion than Damian and four times the number of Variants for the first issue and each following issue of Tim Drake Robin had more variants than Damian's.

Robin 2021 was written by Williamson and drawn by a new comer. Tim's solo was drawn by a well known artist who had just come off Harley Quin and written by a successful screen writer [Supernatural] and the fan favourite writer who wrote Tim's coming out and Robin Eternal.

Tim's solo objectively had the more costly roll out and investment.

When it comes to the quality of the writing, it takes a lot of creativity and intelligence to write a character that one ups Bruce 'I fell down to earth from space and survived' Wayne or showcase the intelligence of a character more brilliant than a Billionaire capable of building an AI like Zur well.

This is why writers resort to dumbing down others to make Tim seem smart or simply telling us he's smart. Because they are not rocket scientists.

DC has always invested in tim the problem is that the market has changed, the Bat universe has changed, Tim Drake has changed.

The Tim who carried a long running series is gone, the landscape that enabled Tim to/where he was able to carry a long running solo is gone.

If his fans and writers don't even who the character is and what makes him unique. What hope is there?

Fitzmartin is not fan favourite..........She was only in a couple of supernatural episodes near the end of the series and Robin Eternal was okay. And being honest most of the buzz from Tim's coming out was due to the Robin brand

[Konja7]

Go back and look at the past runs.
He was conceived as a everyone's typical brother. Intelligent but not a brain or a great fighter or a gifted athlete.
However somewhere along the way as competition was introduced he's morphed into this poor man's batman.
This unrelatable 16 year old wunderkind who builds self repairing buildings.

Not quite. Tim was already presented as the teen genius detective in the first issues of Teen Titans 2003, which happened a good amount of years before Damian was introduced.

That said, I'm pretty sure the issue of establishing Tim as a genius started even before that.

[phonogram12]

Not quite. Tim was already presented as the teen genius detective in the first issues of Teen Titans 2003, which happened a good amount of years before Damian was introduced.

That said, I'm pretty sure the issue of establishing Tim as a genius started even before that.

I mean, he was always presented as smarter than his contemporaries in YJ and TT, not to mention during Hush Bruce once remarked that he believed that he would become the greatest detective one day.

[dietrich]

Fritzmartin was a fan Favourite. The reviews and comments are still available online if you want to fact check.

Even on this very site. The tune only shifted after Dark crisis and Tim's solo.
Discounting the comments from disgruntled shippers due to those being skewed by bias

Bruce once saying that Tim would one day become the world's greatest detective doesn't mean a thing. Bruce can't predict the future and he makes mistakes. He thought John Paul would be a good choice.

Tim wasn't conceived as smarter than his contemporaries and he did not start out like that. That wasn't his selling point.

He was morphed into that much later down the line.
He wasn't a brain. He was regular.

https://theotherscottpeterson.blogsp...bible.html?m=1

Maybe his current fans like him being a wunderkind. Writers certainly do and some here do. I feel bad for Tim Drake.

It seems that his fans are determined to make sure that he doesn't make it past the next reboot.
Again, A wunderkind in a family of wunderkinds isn't unique. It's ordinary.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Fritzmartin was a fan Favourite. The reviews and comments are still available online if you want to fact check.

Even on this very site. The tune only shifted after Dark crisis and Tim's solo.
Discounting the comments from disgruntled shippers due to those being skewed by bias

Bruce once saying that Tim would one day become the world's greatest detective doesn't mean a thing. Bruce can't predict the future and he makes mistakes. He thought John Paul would be a good choice.

Tim wasn't conceived as smarter than his contemporaries and he did not start out like that. That wasn't his selling point.

He was morphed into that much later down the line.
He wasn't a brain. He was regular.

https://theotherscottpeterson.blogsp...bible.html?m=1

Maybe his current fans like him being a wunderkind. Writers certainly do and some here do. I feel bad for Tim Drake.

It seems that his fans are determined to make sure that he doesn't make it past the next reboot.
Again, A wunderkind in a family of wunderkinds isn't unique. It's ordinary.

How could she be a fan favourite. She didn't have much under her belt.

The reviews and comments were saying Robin Eternal was okay. Not bad but nothing too special. And reviews and comments were also saying Tim's pride special was bad and here as well.

For UL the buzz was on the coming out and the Robin brand rather than the story/writing. The fact a lot of people are going back and saying criticizing it shows it.

[skyvolt2000]

How could she be a fan favourite. She didn't have much under her belt.

The reviews and comments were saying Robin Eternal was okay. Not bad but nothing too special. And reviews and comments were also saying Tim's pride special was bad and here as well.

For UL the buzz was on the coming out and the Robin brand rather than the story/writing. The fact a lot of people are going back and saying criticizing it shows it.

There were folks who did praise the Tim Drake book on sites like Amazon.

Most took issue with the art more than the writing.

Not everyone who read that book was a long time reader of Tim Drake. That is something folks need to understand.

Also it doesn't matter how much you got under your belt. It doesn't take much for some folks to like a writer or move you up the ranks.

We can go down the line of folks who would BURY a person like Fitzmartin and Trini Howard. Yet some of them can't sniff a shot at DC or Marvel.

[godisawesome]

Not quite. Tim was already presented as the teen genius detective in the first issues of Teen Titans 2003, which happened a good amount of years before Damian was introduced.

That said, I'm pretty sure the issue of establishing Tim as a genius started even before that.

I think I'd argue the 2003 TT series was the first one to try emphasizing him as having "mad scientist" tendencies, which eventually ballooned into the gadget crazy version of the character that sort of exists now.

Previously, and in most of the runs that actually excited people, I'd argue his intelligence was played more as "savvy," "cunning," and "awareness," and as his preferred MO among the young heroes and among the Batfamily, rather than his "power" that because he was a kid Batfamily member being written by guys like Chuck Dixon and Peter David, so they were naturally gong to make the less physically intimidating Batfamily member rely on his brains out of necessity... but since he's a Batfamily member, that meant he was still physically dangerous compared to most foes, and being the Batfamily member more reliant on brain power means he *WILL* come off as brainy for a comic character.

Dixon, for instance, was never really concerned with making Tim or Dick come off as "smarter" than the other - as far as his style of writing was concerned, ALL Batfamily member should be written as savvy, analytical problem solvers... but he *did* play Nightwing as experienced and physically powerful enough to "wing it" or apply a more direct approach at times, while his Tim was almost always about the indirect approach and lateral thinking because his Tim was aware he was a young teenager. PAD followed through, especially since the "team rule" for Batfamily characters is to be "The Smart One."

I'd argue that Geoff johns and Fabian Nicieza show two different ways to "evolve" the character's intelligence as he grows - Johns went with the "mad scientist" idea, FabNic went with the would-be-Chessmaster idea. Both get criticized, but I think the chessmaster idea leads to more engaging and creative writing in competent hands, flows better from Tim's earlier portrayal, and has more interetsing possible flaws.

Johns's version won out, of course; I'd argue Tynion's Tim owes more to Johns than to Dixon. I'd also argue that "tech dude" is inherently flatter and shallower as a character trait, and thus plays into Tim's slide form headliner sttaus.

[berserkerclaw]

I missed out in the new Tin figure but resentlt i went Robin Crazy and bought 3 Robin figured lol. Classic Drake Classic Grayson and current Damien.

I wonder whats next for tim after the Failsafe arc

[dietrich]

I missed out in the new Tin figure but resentlt i went Robin Crazy and bought 3 Robin figured lol. Classic Drake Classic Grayson and current Damien.

I wonder whats next for tim after the Failsafe arc

That new Mcfarlane Multiverse Tim is beautiful. One of the nicest looking TimRobin action figures I've seen. Hoping to get my hands on one.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

I missed out in the new Tin figure but resentlt i went Robin Crazy and bought 3 Robin figured lol. Classic Drake Classic Grayson and current Damien.

I wonder whats next for tim after the Failsafe arc

Keep an eye on it, they'll have more closer to release most likely.