All purpose news and politics thread part VII: News & Politics Total Landscaping

[Jack Dracula]

I'm not sure my input on this is welcome, but I like Justified.

They had a decent mini-series sequel a few months back which is rather self-contained, although the whole damn thing is good.

There is a trend of the even seasons being better. Season 2 has a fantastic performance by Margo Martindale as the matriarch of a white trash crime family, although it builds on the first season.

I don't like Trump and that's why I've consistently voted against him, but I also don't think we're on the verge of authoritarianism. Frankly, neither party is acting like we are.

From a partisan lens, it does appear that Democrats are treating Trump as an opportunity rather than a crisis. He is a controversial ineffective leader who hurts the Republicans. He barely won a race he should have won (There has only been one time since Eisenhower's election that a party kept the White House for more than two terms), and then lost a race he should have also won (There has only been one other time since 1900 that a party got kicked out of the White House after just one term). I haven't seen much effort from Democrats to moderate, which is what I'd expect if the party were more afraid of Trump winning than they would be if the nominee were Nikki Haley or Doug Burgum. There have been no Sistah Souljah moments to model to Republicans how they should treat the far-right.

There seems to be an effort by Democrats and their supporters to taint Republicans with any association with Trump, which is politics as usual. An implication seems to be that anyone who is associated with Trump in any way should be kept from office, and that only someone who is explicitly anti-Trump should have any future in politics, but there don't seem to be many willing to explicitly make that case because it's going to alienate voters they need in November.

Trump's Supreme Court choices do seem to be relatively typical for any Republican in the same position, since he outsourced it to the Federalist society. Here it would be important to distinguish what's uniquely bad about Trump as opposed to what President Mitt Romney would have done.

There is a potential problem with right-wingers who think that the originalists are too constrained; they're looking for right-wing judges who will find any pretext to rule in ways that benefit Republicans, which is their caricature of how Democrats use the living constitution approach. A term I've heard is that they're looking for judges who know what time it is. That's scary, but it doesn't describe Gorsuch, Kavanaugh or Coney Barrett. It may describe individuals Trump, or his sycophants, would want to nominate in the future. This is one reason I want Trump to lose.

Vox had a piece on disagreements between traditionalist judges and MAGA judges.

https://www.vox.com/scotus/24117949/...judge-shopping

If traditional Republican judges are treated as equivalent to the MAGA judges, that makes it harder to persuade anyone that the MAGA judges are especially bad.

One factor is that Trump hasn't changed things for partisan Democrats. They were always going to vote against Republican nominees for any office. But they're seeing an opportunity to do better than they normally would.

I’m really just repeating myself at this point while you throw up side quests and go granular on single topics to dilute the argument.
I’m not here for you to practice your little argument tricks.

If anyone wants to understand what I’m talking about, please read How Democracies Die by Levitski and Ziblatt.
It does a much better job of explaining the situation we currently face.

[zinderel]

I’m really just repeating myself at this point while you throw up side quests and go granular on single topics to dilute the argument.
I’m not here for you to practice your little argument tricks.

If anyone wants to understand what I’m talking about, please read How Democracies Die by Levitski and Ziblatt.
It does a much better job of explaining the situation we currently face.

This is exactly the issue I and others have. Also, thank you for the book recommendation!

That said…

Mets: Justified is quite good. I’ve been a fan of Timothy Olyphaunt since The Broken Hearts Club. For whatever it’s worth, I recommend it.

[lilyrose]

Justified is a great show. Loved it. Timothy Olyphant and Walton Goggins were fantastic on that.

[zinderel]

Justified is a great show. Loved it. Timothy Olyphant and Walton Goggins were fantastic on that.

Walton’s an absolute delight in everything, even when his character is despicable.

[Jack Dracula]

This is exactly the issue I and others have. Also, thank you for the book recommendation!

That said…

Mets: Justified is quite good. I’ve been a fan of Timothy Olyphaunt since The Broken Hearts Club. For whatever it’s worth, I recommend it.

I really can't recommend it enough. I mean, it's infuriating, but very well written.

[aja_christopher]

If anyone wants to understand what I’m talking about, please read How Democracies Die by Levitski and Ziblatt.
It does a much better job of explaining the situation we currently face.

Appointing your own judges for a start.

[ed2962]

Exactly. And that base wants its presidential candidates lily white. I’m surprised more right wingers don’t come right out and say what Coulter did, I mean, it’s not like the party is hiding its racism anymore.

Also see Hershel Walker and Tim Scott ( although I think more GOPers were bothered by him not being married or having a girlfriend ).

But yeah, at some point over the last several years Coulter seems to have decided to stop pretending to care about policies and just make casual racism her brand. She's said dumb things about Jews, Mexicans, and Gay ppl and while she's not as relevant as she was say 10 years ago, it shocking ( or maybe not ) that some people still take her seriously.

In the Minorities Thread, Username Taken brought up the ironic fact that Ann actually dated Dinesh D'Souza who's a dark skinned Indian man.

She's also somehow good friends with James Walker from Good Times.

Maybe that's why Vivek thought she'd see him as one of the good ones?

[Mister Mets]

I’m really just repeating myself at this point while you throw up side quests and go granular on single topics to dilute the argument.
I’m not here for you to practice your little argument tricks.

If anyone wants to understand what I’m talking about, please read How Democracies Die by Levitski and Ziblatt.
It does a much better job of explaining the situation we currently face.

I'm not here for argument tricks or anything like that. I do wonder what you think your response here accomplishes.

Looking at polls, Democrats do need to persuade people who currently prefer Trump to Biden. I'm on your side. I'm voting for Biden over Trump. I did it before. But Biden is going to need some people who take Trump less seriously than I do.

[Zelena]

Agreed. My buddies and I go camping every year. We get a nice group site where all of us can set up our tents together, and we spend a week being trash people. Loud, drunk, partying, messy trash people (the only thing we make sure to put away at night is food. No one wants bears in the campsite. Or Wolverines...)

The day it’s over, we clean our site with rakes and brooms, divide everything responsibly into trash, compost or recyclables, and leave the site clean for the next people. We often wind up going to neighboring sites to clean THEIR left-behind trash, since apparently, not everyone knows (or respects) the basic rules of camping…and life: “Leave things better than you found them.”

Well, it’s nice to hear of that…

Somewhere along the line, people seem to have stopped caring about leaving a better world for their kids. The focus became themselves, and having the best life they can have NOW, no matter what it costs, and who cares about the future?!

When I see how people treat the nature and the city where they live, I can’t help thinking to my mother’s village, where, in the past, every square inch of ground was cleaned and maintained properly… My mother told me that once in a while they even “cleaned” the forest…

It wasn’t a conception of “nature” for “nature’s sake”, it was a transformed environment but the farmers took care of what belonged to them. Everything around them matter.

[zinderel]

Well, it’s nice to hear of that…



When I see how people treat the nature and the city where they live, I can’t help thinking to my mother’s village, where, in the past, every square inch of ground was cleaned and maintained properly… My mother told me that once in a while they even “cleaned” the forest…

It wasn’t a conception of “nature” for “nature’s sake”, it was a transformed environment but the farmers took care of what belonged to them. Everything around them matter.

We ALL need to take better care of our planet, since it’s literally the only one we have…

But lemme tell you, the modern far right ‘christian’ attitude towards climate change is mind-boggling. NO ONE should be more proactive on fighting climate change than them! The Bible explicitly tells us to be good stewards of the earth, and their attitude that ‘God will take care of it, so I don’t have to’ gives them all the excuse they need to avoid slightly inconveniencing themselves for the sake of others. Why should they changed the way they harvest oil or natural gas, or minerals, or fish, or grain, or beef, or dairy? Who cares if they’re dumping toxic waste wherever they can hide it? God won’t let it get too bad. After all, Jesus is still coming back, and the world can’t end until then!

Everyone, regardless of religion or social class, should make an effort to take care of the world around them. The idea that anyone thinks that applies to everyone but themselves is madness.

But I think we’re all getting way too used to madness, these days…

[Tami]

This isn't necessarily in response to anyone, just my thoughts for the night.

Democrats are not homogeneous, though they usually share two common beliefs. 1. That Democracy is a good idea. 2. That the future is coming, and that we'd best be prepared for it and welcome it.

Aside from that, there are some generalizations that can be made in terms of identifying different types of Democrats.

1. There are the Pragmatic Democrats, the ones who understand the complexities of the world. Who understand that, while change and progress can be a good thing, it must be balanced with dealing with current issues first. That any losses we incur now could undermine any attempts at taking control of the future.

2. There are the more idealistic Democrats who tend to be impatient in their forward-thinking. Who dream big, but sometimes allow their idealism to take precedent over more mundane and present issues. Still, someone has to dream big in order to push the rest forward.

3. There are the Conservative Democrats who view Capitalism as essential to Democracy. They tend to think in terms of economic growth, progress as defined by advances in industry and technology, and so on.

4. Then there are the Non-Democrat Democrats. Those who are not yet comfortable identifying with Democrats, but who are being pushed in that direction by the extremists and the MAGA and so on. These NDD's also believe in Democracy, but is that enough for them to slide to the left?

My thought for the evening, good night.

[JackDaw]

This isn't necessarily in response to anyone, just my thoughts for the night.

Democrats are not homogeneous, though they usually share two common beliefs. 1. That Democracy is a good idea. 2. That the future is coming, and that we'd best be prepared for it and welcome it.

Aside from that, there are some generalizations that can be made in terms of identifying different types of Democrats.

1. There are the Pragmatic Democrats, the ones who understand the complexities of the world. Who understand that, while change and progress can be a good thing, it must be balanced with dealing with current issues first. That any losses we incur now could undermine any attempts at taking control of the future.

2. There are the more idealistic Democrats who tend to be impatient in their forward-thinking. Who dream big, but sometimes allow their idealism to take precedent over more mundane and present issues. Still, someone has to dream big in order to push the rest forward.

3. There are the Conservative Democrats who view Capitalism as essential to Democracy. They tend to think in terms of economic growth, progress as defined by advances in industry and technology, and so on.

4. Then there are the Non-Democrat Democrats. Those who are not yet comfortable identifying with Democrats, but who are being pushed in that direction by the extremists and the MAGA and so on. These NDD's also believe in Democracy, but is that enough for them to slide to the left?

My thought for the evening, good night.

If you look at that list there’s at least 2 groups that might be converted to becoming Republican IF that party cleaned the stables by ejecting extremist representatives.

On the other hand I assume that anyone still In Republican camp is unlikely to defect?

[Zelena]

We ALL need to take better care of our planet, since it’s literally the only one we have…

But lemme tell you, the modern far right ‘christian’ attitude towards climate change is mind-boggling. NO ONE should be more proactive on fighting climate change than them! The Bible explicitly tells us to be good stewards of the earth, and their attitude that ‘God will take care of it, so I don’t have to’ gives them all the excuse they need to avoid slightly inconveniencing themselves for the sake of others. Why should they changed the way they harvest oil or natural gas, or minerals, or fish, or grain, or beef, or dairy? Who cares if they’re dumping toxic waste wherever they can hide it? God won’t let it get too bad. After all, Jesus is still coming back, and the world can’t end until then!

Everyone, regardless of religion or social class, should make an effort to take care of the world around them. The idea that anyone thinks that applies to everyone but themselves is madness.

But I think we’re all getting way too used to madness, these days…

I read once that “loving nature, it’s believing in God”…

Right, the attitude of many people and particularly religious people isn’t logical. It tends to show that decisions and awareness are less intellectual than belonging to the sensitive world. As long as “nature” is considered as an “unalterable idea” and not as a part of our life that can be damaged to the point it can endanger us, there’s no reason to act. There are layers between us and the reality and our culture can be one of them.

[zinderel]

This isn't necessarily in response to anyone, just my thoughts for the night.

Democrats are not homogeneous, though they usually share two common beliefs. 1. That Democracy is a good idea. 2. That the future is coming, and that we'd best be prepared for it and welcome it.

Aside from that, there are some generalizations that can be made in terms of identifying different types of Democrats.

1. There are the Pragmatic Democrats, the ones who understand the complexities of the world. Who understand that, while change and progress can be a good thing, it must be balanced with dealing with current issues first. That any losses we incur now could undermine any attempts at taking control of the future.

2. There are the more idealistic Democrats who tend to be impatient in their forward-thinking. Who dream big, but sometimes allow their idealism to take precedent over more mundane and present issues. Still, someone has to dream big in order to push the rest forward.

3. There are the Conservative Democrats who view Capitalism as essential to Democracy. They tend to think in terms of economic growth, progress as defined by advances in industry and technology, and so on.

4. Then there are the Non-Democrat Democrats. Those who are not yet comfortable identifying with Democrats, but who are being pushed in that direction by the extremists and the MAGA and so on. These NDD's also believe in Democracy, but is that enough for them to slide to the left?

My thought for the evening, good night.

This is not inaccurate. I happen to be an idealistic, but reluctant Democrat. I only registered as a Democrat in the run up to 2016, so I could vote in the Democratic primary. Given the Trump of it all, I wanted to cast my vote with the only left leaning party with a chance at beating him. I’m still a Democrat now. And though I don’t always like being affiliated there…at least I know - because I have oodles of history and resources and FACTS to back that knowledge up - that the Democratic Party platform doesn’t include wanting me dead, the way the GOP one does. I know that the Democratic platform doesn’t punish women for being able to get pregnant. I know that the Democratic party doesn’t support police brutality. Or treason. They believe in helping the people at the bottom, because they understand that economics has to serve more than just the 1% if society is going to function.

They aren’t perfect…but, again…they don’t harbor and encourage domestic terrorists, or people who want me and my partner dead (or just tortured into pretending to be heterosexual, for Jesus…) as a matter of policy.

[zinderel]

I read once that “loving nature, it’s believing in God”…

Right, the attitude of many people and particularly religious people isn’t logical. It tends to show that decisions and awareness are less intellectual than belonging to the sensitive world. As long as “nature” is considered as an “unalterable idea” and not as a part of our life that can be damaged to the point it can endanger us, there’s no reason to act. There are layers between us and the reality and our culture can be one of them.

I’ve said it before…

I’m an atheist. Have been my whole life, though it wasn’t til adulthood that I officially stated it. I have never felt the presence of the divine, in terms of an anthropomorphized entity who ‘knows all, sees all, is all powerful, and personally loves me’. There are many days when I wish I DID have that, but…growing up abused and ostracized by religious figures tends to chase away whatever scraps of faith might have been there.

That said, when I stand outside in a thunderstorm? When I feel the thunder hit me like a shockwave, see the torrential rains and the blinding flashes of sky-shattering lightning…? When I’m out camping and I’m far enough from the city that I can see the Milky Way? I can ABSOLUTELY understand how ancient man came to believe in gods.

But when I try to imagine that thunderstorm, or those stars, telling me to kill my neighbor and take his stuff? Or when I try to imagine them telling me who it’s okay for me to hate? That’s where it loses me.

Same with a god that I was taught, as a young Baptist, left us to be stewards of the earth and to care for one another, even - ESPECIALLY - those who society deems to be inferior or unclean…but he’s apparently ALSO cool with his disciples poisoning everything for profit, and making life harder for the underprivileged…? I just…nope.

I’ll stick to the neo-pagans who think crystals can cure headaches. Their beliefs are just as silly to me, but they haven’t called for any genocides recently, and they work hard to support the earth from which we get everything we NEED to live.