X-Men '97 Episode 10 - Tolerance is Extinction Part 3 *spoilers*

[Psy-lock]

Its bordering on toxic. In the Inferno episode, Morph tried to make a move on Logan when he thought he saw him naked in hte shower. He knows he's straight and doesnt see it for him like that. Its a dangerous game to be flirting and linger around for an opportunity thats likely not going to present itself. Its not unhealthy on Morph's part

That was a joke, not flirting. The illusion literally says "always with the jokes, eh, Morph?"

[Havok83]

I didn't really see that as flirting.

Morph makes off-color and dark humor jokes since S1 and also shows it off in S2 when they turns into their possibly dead mentor. I saw it as Morph joking with Wolverine as more of the same on that, not them actually coming onto him.

That was a joke, not flirting. The illusion literally says "always with the jokes, eh, Morph?"

People can flirt with jokes you know? Especially with someone with Morph's personality type, its a way to do so without being direct. I do get the impression that had Logan expressed interest, Morph would jump on that. To me he was testing the waters in the shower (no pun intended)

[Psy-lock]

People can flirt with jokes you know?

My point is that it's not serious, let alone toxic.

[ChronoRogue]

People can flirt with jokes you know? Especially with someone with Morph's personality type, its a way to do so without being direct

I mean sure, but if Morph knows Logan is not actually into them, it feels more self-depreciating than a come-on.

What would make it toxic is if Logan seemed uncomfortable or had told them to stop but I doubt that is the case. Especially since Logan's been in the military and how much locker room talk / dark humor is said amongst each other as soldiers and what he's probably used to.

I wonder if that is why Logan actually likes being around Morph come to think of it... dark humor is used a lot to process trauma unfortunately, which Logan would be intimately familiar with as a scenario or coping method.

[Havok83]

I mean sure, but if Morph knows Logan is not actually into them, it feels more self-depreciating than a come-on.

What would make it toxic is if Logan seemed uncomfortable or had told him to stop but I doubt that is the case. Especially since Logan's been in the military and how much locker room talk / dark humor is said amongst each other as soldiers and he's probably used to.

I wonder if that is why Logan actually likes being around Morph come to think of it... dark humor is used a lot to process trauma unfortunately, which Logan would be intimately familiar with as a scenario or coping method.

and thats exactly why I think its unhealthy

My point is that it's not serious, let alone toxic.

I didnt say it was toxic; I said it was bordering on it. I feel unhealthy is a more accurate word

[Gripstir]

What? How has Morph abused their powers at all to take advantage of Logan?

Shape-shifting in general is a power that people may find uncomfortable, but the connations behind it has nothing to do with a commentary on any individual sexuality or community. Look at Mystique for example, THAT is an example of abuse and manipulation; but it's clear she's not using her powers for love or romance but to further her own psychotic agendas. The only person she has ever loved is Destiny who is blind.

You're exploring this based on the character I'm exploring this on a writing standpoint and the irl toxicity embedded in this trope. I tried hard to make sure this trope is contained to he writers. I don't believe the actions of the few mirror the reflection of the whole. This isn't about casting blame on a community. But just like with Magneto and Rogue we would totally be OK with it if we didn't have knowledge or experience irl that showed the toxicity. And we have not explored these toxic tropes at all when it comes to non hetero dynamics. This show often embeds things of an adult nature that they expect won't be known about and think people won't notice.

[Gripstir]

People can flirt with jokes you know? Especially with someone with Morph's personality type, its a way to do so without being direct. I do get the impression that had Logan expressed interest, Morph would jump on that. To me he was testing the waters in the shower (no pun intended)

Beau has already confirmed morphs actions were not on accident

[ChronoRogue]

and thats exactly why I think its unhealthy. I didnt say it was toxic; I said it was bordering on it. I feel unhealthy is a more accurate word

Alright, I guess I could see the argument for unhealthy as it's not a good coping method for Morph to move on from.

You're exploring this based on the character I'm exploring this on a writing standpoint and the irl toxicity embedded in this trope. I tried hard to make sure this trope is contained to he writers. I don't believe the actions of the few mirror the reflection of the whole. This isn't about casting blame on a community. But just like with Magneto and Rogue we would totally be OK with it if we didn't have knowledge or experience irl that showed the toxicity. And we have not explored these toxic tropes at all when it comes to non hetero dynamics. This show often embeds things of an adult nature that they expect won't be known about and think people won't notice.

I don't think you can take it without the context of "this is a world with superpowers and metahumans" because lots of powers become problematic IRL if you apply it that way.

Telepathy and a lots psionic powers come with uncomfortable questions on free will and privacy, powers that can manipulate the climate or nature bring in talks about carbon footprints and our responsibility to influence nature, etc...

Shape-shifting to comfort someone while also expressing that feeling of unrequited love can exist without being "creepy". What would make it creepy is the intent, just as those IRL situations where the mechanizations of the person involved is what makes it abusive.

[regg215]

I'm all for attempts at representation, however using morph as a way to do so is a poor choice by the show. The shape shifting element causes too much of a problematic scenario regarding so many elements. If you flipped the scenario and made it say logan and storm all of the scenarios where morph is joking/flirting would be widely condemned. If in first episodes logan used an image inducer to turn into forge and mock storms relationship with him, then in inferno episode logan had a vision of storm in shower got a look of excitement and made the similar comments to morph that would be seen as creepy. Not to mention if storm was injured and dying and called out for forge and logan used an image inducer to pretend to be forge to try to confess their feelings people would at the very least be saying logan was creepy or out of line. Pretty sure logan would be universally condemned for those actions and therefore morph should be as well.

[Andru]

Yeah a lot of people can relate to Magneto and Rogue too. Doesn't change the fact it's toxic.i think you can't just view this from your own POV and relation. You also have to look at from the perspective of power, subversion and control. Everyone wants to feel powerful but you can't just allow the need to do feel powerful excuse toxic representation and irl context. Especially as it validates people's thoughts that affect other people too and has led to extremely inappropriate behavior

I have never picked up any sense of Morph abusing their powers to manipulate or take advantage of Logan. It's not Like Morph is waking Logan up in the middle of the night as Jean trying to get some...

What? How has Morph abused their powers at all to take advantage of Logan?

Shape-shifting in general is a power that people may find uncomfortable, but the connations behind it has nothing to do with a commentary on any individual sexuality or community. Look at Mystique for example, THAT is an example of abuse and manipulation; but it's clear she's not using her powers for love or romance but to further her own psychotic agendas. The only person she has ever loved is Destiny who is blind.

100% agreed!

Its bordering on toxic. In the Inferno episode, Morph tried to make a move on Logan when he thought he saw him naked in hte shower. He knows he's straight and doesnt see it for him like that. Its a dangerous game to be flirting and linger around for an opportunity thats likely not going to present itself. Its not unhealthy on Morph's part

I did not interpret that scene as Morph trying to make a move on Logan at all. It felt similar to when they shifted into Sabertooth for some rough housing.

[Havok83]

I did not interpret that scene as Morph trying to make a move on Logan at all. It felt similar to when they shifted into Sabertooth for some rough housing.

Going up to a naked man leaning over in a shower saying "need some help with those hard to reach spaces" can be interpreted as sexually suggested

[Andru]

Going up to a naked man leaning over in a shower saying "need some help with those hard to reach spaces" can be interpreted as sexually suggested

If they were strangers, sure.

These are 2 buddies in a communal shower...

[yogaflame]

Morph was not handled well this season. I mean, the VA constantly refers to the character as a 'he' in interviews, despite corporate having beat us over the head with the press release about Morph being non-binary and identifying as a they/them in this show. So that was weird to begin with. Secondly, all Morph did this season was feed Logan beers. Constantly. You know what they say about straight guys? The more alcohol they have, the less straight they become. Now you have Morph's ultimate scene in the finale being a profession of love, disguised as Logan's actual romantic interest, while Logan's in complete shock barely holding on to life. Yikes!

[Andru]

Morph was not handled well this season. I mean, the VA constantly refers to the character as a 'he' in interviews, despite corporate having beat us over the head with the press release about Morph being non-binary and identifying as a they/them in this show. So that was weird to begin with. Secondly, all Morph did this season was feed Logan beers. Constantly. You know what they say about straight guys? The more alcohol they have, the less straight they become. Now you have Morph's ultimate scene in the finale being a profession of love, disguised as Logan's actual romantic interest, while Logan's in complete shock barely holding on to life. Yikes!

So now Morph is trying to get Logan wasted so they can take advantage of him?

Can Wolverine even get drunk?

[Gray Lensman]

Morph was not handled well this season. I mean, the VA constantly refers to the character as a 'he' in interviews, despite corporate having beat us over the head with the press release about Morph being non-binary and identifying as a they/them in this show. So that was weird to begin with. Secondly, all Morph did this season was feed Logan beers. Constantly. You know what they say about straight guys? The more alcohol they have, the less straight they become. Now you have Morph's ultimate scene in the finale being a profession of love, disguised as Logan's actual romantic interest, while Logan's in complete shock barely holding on to life. Yikes!

To be honest I wonder if the VA is just having trouble wrapping their head around the concept of someone being non-binary. I don't know anyone who is outside of the Internet and as such I have to stop myself from referring to non-binary individuals by the he/she switch I have been used to for half a century.