X-Men '97 Episode 10 - Tolerance is Extinction Part 3 *spoilers*

[ChronoRogue]

I'm all for attempts at representation, however using morph as a way to do so is a poor choice by the show. The shape shifting element causes too much of a problematic scenario regarding so many elements. If you flipped the scenario and made it say logan and storm all of the scenarios where morph is joking/flirting would be widely condemned. If in first episodes logan used an image inducer to turn into forge and mock storms relationship with him, then in inferno episode logan had a vision of storm in shower got a look of excitement and made the similar comments to morph that would be seen as creepy. Not to mention if storm was injured and dying and called out for forge and logan used an image inducer to pretend to be forge to try to confess their feelings people would at the very least be saying logan was creepy or out of line. Pretty sure logan would be universally condemned for those actions and therefore morph should be as well.

That situation would read weirdly because Storm and Wolverine are not best friends.

They respect each other a great deal, but they don't hang out frequently on their down time as she seems to do with Jean or Rogue. Morph is talking down Jean because that is a situation a best friend will sometimes do to make their friends feel better about their unrequited loves. Is there jealousy mixed in there? Maybe, but the situation is complex and not clear cut. As for the shower scene, again, it's not a 1:1 in that situation because despite Morph being non-binary they still use the same shower as Logan. It's not an invasion of space meant to take advantage or a serious proposition, rather than an off-color joke.

Context and intent is important in interpreting those scenes, the fact that it's only because it seems romantic from one-side that it seems problematic already tells you what the core issue is; not the actions, but the intent.

Morph was not handled well this season. I mean, the VA constantly refers to the character as a 'he' in interviews, despite corporate having beat us over the head with the press release about Morph being non-binary and identifying as a they/them in this show. So that was weird to begin with. Secondly, all Morph did this season was feed Logan beers. Constantly. You know what they say about straight guys? The more alcohol they have, the less straight they become. Now you have Morph's ultimate scene in the finale being a profession of love, disguised as Logan's actual romantic interest, while Logan's in complete shock barely holding on to life. Yikes!

Eh, that seems like a much darker lens to view sharing alcohol with a friend after a stressful situation. There is a mix of romantic inclination but also comfort toward a friend in both those those situations.

[Havok83]

Morph was not handled well this season. I mean, the VA constantly refers to the character as a 'he' in interviews, despite corporate having beat us over the head with the press release about Morph being non-binary and identifying as a they/them in this show. So that was weird to begin with. Secondly, all Morph did this season was feed Logan beers. Constantly. You know what they say about straight guys? The more alcohol they have, the less straight they become. Now you have Morph's ultimate scene in the finale being a profession of love, disguised as Logan's actual romantic interest, while Logan's in complete shock barely holding on to life. Yikes!

IA. I think its wild and naive to act as if Morph's scenes were innocent and didnt have a deeper intention. Like the Magneto and Xavier scenes nad using language such as penetrate and leaning close like they are gonna kiss. Beau was definitely pushing the boundaries and playing into gay innuendo without going there but as adults we can all see and recognize it. The stuff with Morph was intentional and done to be interpreted a specific way without directly stating it. Creators have been doing that with adult themes in cartoons forever. People should go look up videos about this on YT and watch that forever change your childhood

[ChronoRogue]

IA. I think its wild and naive to act as if Morph's scenes were innocent and didnt have a deeper intention. Like the Magneto and Xavier scenes nad using language such as penetrate and leaning close like they are gonna kiss. Beau was definitely pushing the boundaries and playing into gay innuendo without going there but as adults we can all see and recognize it. The stuff with Morph was intentional and done to be interpreted a specific way without directly stating it. Creators have been doing that with adult themes in cartoons forever. People should go look up videos about this on YT and watch that forever change your childhood

Beau outright says it's romantic on Morph's end, so we know already it's not platonic and "innocent". But Morph having those feelings doesn't mean every action they do needs to be viewed with a more selfish or malicious lens because of it though. Feelings are complex and usually multi-facected.

As far as creators putting in innuendo, sure, but that doesn't mean they're trying to be inherently problematic or portray a character as predatory as "feeding a straight guy alcohol so they have a better chance of sleeping with them". That is reaching far IMO.

[Psy-lock]

That situation would read weirdly because Storm and Wolverine are not best friends.

They respect each other a great deal, but they don't hang out frequently on their down time as she seems to do with Jean or Rogue. Morph is talking down Jean because that is a situation a best friend will sometimes do to make their friends feel better about their unrequited loves. Is there jealousy mixed in there? Maybe, but the situation is complex and not clear cut. As for the shower scene, again, it's not a 1:1 in that situation because despite Morph being non-binary they still use the same shower as Logan. It's not an invasion of space meant to take advantage or a serious proposition, rather than an off-color joke.

Context and intent is important in interpreting those scenes, the fact that it's only because it seems romantic from one-side that it seems problematic already tells you what the core issue is; not the actions, but the intent.

There's also the fact that a straight man pining for a woman and a queer person pining for a straight man are not in an equal position, especially not in that time period.

[Havok83]

Beau outright says it's romantic on Morph's end, so we know already it's not platonic and "innocent". But Morph having those feelings doesn't mean every action they do needs to be viewed with a more selfish or malicious lens because of it though. Feelings are complex and usually multi-facected.

As far as creators putting in innuendo, sure, but that doesn't mean they're trying to be inherently problematic or portray a character as predatory as "feeding a straight guy alcohol so they have a better chance of sleeping with them". That is reaching far IMO.

Okay, just to be clear though, I dont think Morph is malicious at all. I do think he pushes boundaries and sees how much he can get away with in the guise of it all being jokes and giggles

[ChronoRogue]

There's also the fact that a straight man pining for a woman and a queer person pining for a straight man are not in an equal position, especially not in that time period.

Exactly there are gender norms at play here (conscious and maybe subconscious). Which could be an interesting topic to explore with Morph later in the series, especially in regards to their identity and how they view themselves.

Okay, just to be clear though, I dont think Morph is malicious at all. I do think he pushes boundaries and sees how much he can get away with in the guise of it all being jokes and giggles

I mean that's fair. It's on brand with Morphs' dark humor. I just think we need to be careful with this discourse, we know non-binary and trans people already have issues with their actions being extra scrutinized or viewed as predatory.

I don't think the creators intention with Morph's is anything more than a friend pining after someone they know doesn't reciprocate. To me it reads as mostly typical soap opera moments.

[Galacticcore]

That situation would read weirdly because Storm and Wolverine are not best friends.

They respect each other a great deal, but they don't hang out frequently on their down time as she seems to do with Jean or Rogue. Morph is talking down Jean because that is a situation a best friend will sometimes do to make their friends feel better about their unrequited loves. Is there jealousy mixed in there? Maybe, but the situation is complex and not clear cut. As for the shower scene, again, it's not a 1:1 in that situation because despite Morph being non-binary they still use the same shower as Logan. It's not an invasion of space meant to take advantage or a serious proposition, rather than an off-color joke.

Context and intent is important in interpreting those scenes, the fact that it's only because it seems romantic from one-side that it seems problematic already tells you what the core issue is; not the actions, but the intent.



Eh, that seems like a much darker lens to view sharing alcohol with a friend after a stressful situation. There is a mix of romantic inclination but also comfort toward a friend in both those those situations.

Hmmm what? The ONLY interaction Storm & Rogue had in xmen 97 is storm telling rogue "rogue do not turn your back on your family" rogue "you were gone gal"
That was literally it. I doubt they are doing any hanging out. Beau Demayo seems to have buried that friendship that made XMEN TAS so special.
One more reason why I don't like Beau Demayo and I'm so happy he got fired.

[Andru]

IA. I think its wild and naive to act as if Morph's scenes were innocent and didnt have a deeper intention. Like the Magneto and Xavier scenes nad using language such as penetrate and leaning close like they are gonna kiss. Beau was definitely pushing the boundaries and playing into gay innuendo without going there but as adults we can all see and recognize it. The stuff with Morph was intentional and done to be interpreted a specific way without directly stating it. Creators have been doing that with adult themes in cartoons forever. People should go look up videos about this on YT and watch that forever change your childhood

I do agree with this.

But I do think some posters are amping it up and making it something it is not. Namely toxic and/or creepy...

[ChronoRogue]

Hmmm what? The ONLY interaction Storm & Rogue had in xmen 97 is storm telling rogue "rogue do not turn your back on your family" rogue "you were gone gal"
That was literally it. I doubt they are doing any hanging out. Beau Demayo seems to have buried that friendship that made XMEN TAS so special.
One more reason why I don't like Beau Demayo and I'm so happy he got fired.

Yes, I was referring to how close they were in the OG series. Sadly that has gotten ignored this season, but their friendship is still one of my favorites thus the example.

[Lucyinthesky]

I agree Morph´s words can be taken that way and that the creators did this for this same reason to be understood by adults but I believe we also need to consider the context, Logan is dying, his healing factor isn´t working as it´s supposed to and he needs a strong emotional motivation just to wake up, all the X-men know that strongest emotional motivation for Logan has always been Jean, this is why Scott mentioned her and my guess is that this is also why Morhp used her voice and her face to help Logan wake up. He did this in comics sometimes in the AoA crossover to help his team mates to wake up so at least it´s in character for him. Of course I also wish we could have seen him doing more in the series besides being around Logan, hope he is more active on S2 just like he was in the original AoA

[Will Evans]

So, since Moira was killed in Genosha, did she get reborn in a new timeline with that knowledge?

[Confuzzled]

So, since Moira was killed in Genosha, did she get reborn in a new timeline with that knowledge?

It's just a Shi'ar golem

[KurtW95]

I really think the show was done all wrong. You could have made it a direct continuation with accurate characterization and made it kid friendly and hired the OG crew, but nooooooo. We have to pander to the people who nitpick that the first series didn't have blood and Wolverine carving people up. And terrible departures from canon that can only come from the idea that the writers didn't watch the first series. It disgusts me that people are so entitled that they would cut off new kids from enjoying a show because you want the show they got into as a kid Invinciblified. Truly selfish individuals. The first series managed to make it mature and adults could fully enjoy it.

[Gripstir]

Alright, I guess I could see the argument for unhealthy as it's not a good coping method for Morph to move on from.



I don't think you can take it without the context of "this is a world with superpowers and metahumans" because lots of powers become problematic IRL if you apply it that way.

Telepathy and a lots psionic powers come with uncomfortable questions on free will and privacy, powers that can manipulate the climate or nature bring in talks about carbon footprints and our responsibility to influence nature, etc...

Shape-shifting to comfort someone while also expressing that feeling of unrequited love can exist without being "creepy". What would make it creepy is the intent, just as those IRL situations where the mechanizations of the person involved is what makes it abusive.

I think the powers are metaphors not literal in terms of themes. But in terms of morph the scenes with ligan there's almost always a shapeshift into a character Logan has history with, especially waiting to prey on Logan when he's weak. And again going back to the hypno aspect of subliminal messaging inherent in Morph's character but also the writing choices by Beau Demayo

[starduck]

I really think the show was done all wrong. You could have made it a direct continuation with accurate characterization and made it kid friendly and hired the OG crew, but nooooooo. We have to pander to the people who nitpick that the first series didn't have blood and Wolverine carving people up. And terrible departures from canon that can only come from the idea that the writers didn't watch the first series. It disgusts me that people are so entitled that they would cut off new kids from enjoying a show because you want the show they got into as a kid Invinciblified. Truly selfish individuals. The first series managed to make it mature and adults could fully enjoy it.

Really? I don't think 97 is as strong in content as Invincible. like most of what happens could happen in any random anime kids could watch.