All purpose news and politics thread part VII: News & Politics Total Landscaping

[Kirby101]

What we know, what is fact. Post COVID inflation was Global and had little to do with Biden being President. But Biden and the US handled it better than most industrial countries.
Just as Trump handled COVID worse than most industrial countries.
I would like to see an explanation of how inflation was Biden's fault and how Trump would have handled it better?

[Mister Mets]

Right now, the polarization in the US may be largely between white people. Minority voters with different perspectives and fewer illusions about nationality, patriotism, classism, etc may bring a clearer, uncluttered view with them to the polls.
Just my off-the-cuff thoughts.

One of the biggest political trends of the last decade was that white liberals moved to the left, so that's a big part of the polarization of white people.

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/22/182598...ing-trump-2020
https://www.slowboring.com/p/tema-okun?s=r

[hyped78]

When you say Biden's not withholding the weapons he said he would and the news reports say he is, I'll take your statement of whether there's a plan with a grain of salt and realize how much context it's missing and how much obstructionism needs to be worked around to get anything positive for the country done at all.

'Biden plans to send $1bn arms shipment to Israel'
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-69013279

'Biden administration is moving ahead on new $1 billion arms sale to Israel, congressional aides say'
https://apnews.com/article/us-israel...e6458c04151585

Or are you referring to something else?

[Dalak]

According to this link it's not as cut & dry as you are making out. The weapons he "claimed" are being held are still being held, and "The deal would be an entirely new sale, the aide said. That means any weapons that are part of it could take years to be delivered."

That seems like very important context to leave out by not providing a link when posting predictably misleading commentary.

Instead of leaving out context and trying to pick a fight, one could look at posts from the last day and educate oneself and/or read the articles they post. It's better than falling for another conservative panic based on misinformation.

[hyped78]

Instead of leaving out context and trying to pick a fight, one could look at posts from the last day and educate oneself and/or read the articles they post. It's better than falling for another conservative panic based on misinformation.

Hmm hmm

"Even Democrats don’t get what Biden’s Israel weapons policy is"

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/0...olicy-00158207

[Kirby101]

One of the biggest political trends of the last decade was that white liberals moved to the left, so that's a big part of the polarization of white people.

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/22/182598...ing-trump-2020
https://www.slowboring.com/p/tema-okun?s=r

I keep seeing this claim as the GOP moves to the anti democratic, fascist far right. "It's the liberals who have moved from the center". Even though the Democratic Party is still more centrist than most liberal parties in Europe.

It's basically bull$&it

[Dalak]

I keep seeing this claim as the GOP moves to the anti democratic, fascist far right. "It's the liberals who have moved from the center". Even though the Democratic Party is still more centrist than most liberal parties in Europe.

It's basically bull$&it

I agree, the concept is eerily similar to conservative negotiations with Obama on the ACA and other similar interactions. Requests to "Meet us in the middle" which are then left behind for new middles constantly shifting towards the right. It seems another example of Murc's Law which I never would have learned of if not for posters on this forum.

[aja_christopher]

I agree, the concept is eerily similar to conservative negotiations with Obama on the ACA and other similar interactions. Requests to "Meet us in the middle" which are then left behind for new middles constantly shifting towards the right. It seems another example of Murc's Law which I never would have learned of if not for posters on this forum.

One or two articles from the same writer/blogger about "The Great Awokening" proves nothing -- but to his credit at least he actually tried to cite more than his opinion this time around.

-----

"The analysis of members’ ideological scores finds that the current standoff between Democrats and Republicans is the result of several overlapping trends that have been playing themselves out – and sometimes reinforcing each other – for decades.

Both parties have grown more ideologically cohesive. There are now only about two dozen moderate Democrats and Republicans left on Capitol Hill, versus more than 160 in 1971-72.

Both parties have moved further away from the ideological center since the early 1970s. Democrats on average have become somewhat more liberal, while Republicans on average have become much more conservative.

Between the 92nd Congress of 1971-72 and the current 117th Congress, both parties in both the House and the Senate have shifted further away from the center, but Republicans more so. House Democrats, for example, moved from about -0.31 to -0.38, meaning that over time they’ve become modestly more liberal on average. House Republicans, by contrast, moved from 0.25 to nearly 0.51, a much bigger increase in the conservative direction.

As Democrats have grown more liberal over time and Republicans much more conservative, the “middle” – where moderate-to-liberal Republicans could sometimes find common ground with moderate-to-conservative Democrats on contentious issues – has vanished.

Five decades ago, 144 House Republicans were less conservative than the most conservative Democrat, and 52 House Democrats were less liberal than the most liberal Republican, according to the analysis. But that zone of ideological overlap began to shrink, as conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans – increasingly out of step with their caucuses and their constituents – either retired, lost reelection bids or, in a few cases, switched parties."

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-re...-back-decades/

[hyped78]

I keep seeing this claim as the GOP moves to the anti democratic, fascist far right. "It's the liberals who have moved from the center". Even though the Democratic Party is still more centrist than most liberal parties in Europe.

It's basically bull$&it

While I agree that the European Left is generally more to the left than the US Democratic Party (because most European countries have e.g. public healthcare, public education, higher taxes and state expenditure, etc.), in the last few years there's been a widespread shift of European politics to the right. This is probably cyclical, but it's been widespread. That having been said, I still believe the European Center is more to the left than the US Center.

[hyped78]

One or two articles from the same writer/blogger about "The Great Awokening" proves nothing -- but to his credit at least he actually tried to cite more than his opinion this time around.

-----

"The analysis of members’ ideological scores finds that the current standoff between Democrats and Republicans is the result of several overlapping trends that have been playing themselves out – and sometimes reinforcing each other – for decades.

Both parties have grown more ideologically cohesive. There are now only about two dozen moderate Democrats and Republicans left on Capitol Hill, versus more than 160 in 1971-72.

Both parties have moved further away from the ideological center since the early 1970s. Democrats on average have become somewhat more liberal, while Republicans on average have become much more conservative.

Between the 92nd Congress of 1971-72 and the current 117th Congress, both parties in both the House and the Senate have shifted further away from the center, but Republicans more so. House Democrats, for example, moved from about -0.31 to -0.38, meaning that over time they’ve become modestly more liberal on average. House Republicans, by contrast, moved from 0.25 to nearly 0.51, a much bigger increase in the conservative direction.

As Democrats have grown more liberal over time and Republicans much more conservative, the “middle” – where moderate-to-liberal Republicans could sometimes find common ground with moderate-to-conservative Democrats on contentious issues – has vanished.

Five decades ago, 144 House Republicans were less conservative than the most conservative Democrat, and 52 House Democrats were less liberal than the most liberal Republican, according to the analysis. But that zone of ideological overlap began to shrink, as conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans – increasingly out of step with their caucuses and their constituents – either retired, lost reelection bids or, in a few cases, switched parties."

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-re...-back-decades/

This is super interesting, thanks for sharing

[Jack Dracula]

One or two articles from the same writer/blogger about "The Great Awokening" proves nothing -- but to his credit at least he actually tried to cite more than his opinion this time around.

-----

"The analysis of members’ ideological scores finds that the current standoff between Democrats and Republicans is the result of several overlapping trends that have been playing themselves out – and sometimes reinforcing each other – for decades.

Both parties have grown more ideologically cohesive. There are now only about two dozen moderate Democrats and Republicans left on Capitol Hill, versus more than 160 in 1971-72.

Both parties have moved further away from the ideological center since the early 1970s. Democrats on average have become somewhat more liberal, while Republicans on average have become much more conservative.

Between the 92nd Congress of 1971-72 and the current 117th Congress, both parties in both the House and the Senate have shifted further away from the center, but Republicans more so. House Democrats, for example, moved from about -0.31 to -0.38, meaning that over time they’ve become modestly more liberal on average. House Republicans, by contrast, moved from 0.25 to nearly 0.51, a much bigger increase in the conservative direction.

As Democrats have grown more liberal over time and Republicans much more conservative, the “middle” – where moderate-to-liberal Republicans could sometimes find common ground with moderate-to-conservative Democrats on contentious issues – has vanished.

Five decades ago, 144 House Republicans were less conservative than the most conservative Democrat, and 52 House Democrats were less liberal than the most liberal Republican, according to the analysis. But that zone of ideological overlap began to shrink, as conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans – increasingly out of step with their caucuses and their constituents – either retired, lost reelection bids or, in a few cases, switched parties."

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-re...-back-decades/

I’ve voiced the somewhat unpopular idea before that moderates are integral to stable democratic governance. If no one can compromise nothing important gets done. Parties can only accomplish relevant change through political dominance which contributes to an overall undemocratic and unstable political system.

[aja_christopher]

I’ve voiced the somewhat unpopular idea before that moderates are integral to stable democratic governance. If no one can compromise nothing important gets done. Parties can only accomplish relevant change through political dominance which contributes to an overall undemocratic and unstable political system.

History shows that it is difficult to compromise with bigotry and intolerance.

-----

"Unsealed evidence shows racist comments, threats of violence made by Daniel Perry before killing of Austin protester"

"Daniel Perry, whom Texas Gov. Greg Abbott has pledged to pardon for the murder of an Austin protester, often made racist comments and regularly made clear his desire to kill protesters in the months leading up to Garrett Foster’s death, according to social media posts and texts contained in newly unsealed court documents.

On May 29, 2020, days after George Floyd’s murder by a Minneapolis police officer prompted nationwide protests, Perry sent a text message saying, “I might go to Dallas to shoot looters.”

Two days later, according to the records, Perry said in a Facebook message that when he is in Dallas, “no protestors go near me or my car.”

“Can you catch me a negro daddy,” the other man replied.

“That is what I am hoping,” Perry said.

In June, Perry sent text messages from an unknown area detailing bars closing and “the blacks … gathering up in a group I think something is about to happen.”

“I wonder if they will let my cut the ears off of people who’s decided to commit suicide by me,” he added.

The court records, released Thursday, contain evidence pulled from Perry’s phone records and social media accounts. Prosecutors had filed the sealed 82-page document in March, but much of it was not brought before jurors. Information depicting a defendant’s character is often not allowed to be introduced while a jury weighs guilt versus innocence, but becomes relevant in a sentencing hearing.

The U.S. Army sergeant also sent racist and anti-Muslim messages before and after Floyd’s death. In April 2020, he sent a meme, which included a photo of a woman holding her child’s head under water in the bath, with the text, “WHEN YOUR DAUGHTERS FIRST CRUSH IS A LITTLE NEGRO BOY,” according to the state’s filing.

“To bad we can’t get paid for hunting Muslims in Europe,” he said.

Perry’s defense attorney Clint Broden declined to comment on the newly released court documents.

Perry, who is white, was convicted last week in Travis County in the shooting death of Foster in July 2020. Perry drove his car into a group of protesters, including Foster, a white Air Force veteran. Foster was carrying an AK-47, a legal act in Texas. Perry’s attorneys said at trial Foster raised his rifle, prompting Perry to shoot Foster five times through his car window with his handgun. Witnesses said Foster did not raise his rifle."

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/04...tin-protester/

[numberthirty]

While I agree that the European Left is generally more to the left than the US Democratic Party (because most European countries have e.g. public healthcare, public education, higher taxes and state expenditure, etc.), in the last few years there's been a widespread shift of European politics to the right. This is probably cyclical, but it's been widespread. That having been said, I still believe the European Center is more to the left than the US Center.

When a leader in the Democratic party(who was leading the House, no less...) essentially says "Free Market Economy, bro. If you don't want Congress people to be able to profit off of stocks while they make law, you can go kick rocks..."




It is hard not to laugh at the idea that the "US Center..." is actually anywhere in the "Actually Left..." ballpark.

[Catlady in training]

IÂ’m curious what you think caused the polarization in your country. When do you think it began and what exacerbated it?

This is just my take, I know there are some people who agree with me and probably more that disagree, but looking back, I think the significant rise began around 2014-2015. There were political conflicts before, but I feel they were mostly about politicians, but after that more social and cultural topics became more heated as well. The country is I would say about 70/30 conservative/liberal, but people used to be more chill about LGBTQ+ issues, or at least that was my perception. Then we had a referendum in 2015 about registered partnerships with a very nasty campaign on the conservative side and the topic remained heated ever since. In 2014 the war in Ukraine began and although it did not affect us that much back then, since it was concentrated in the East, a lot of misinformation websites started to pop up that were later proven to be financed from russia. Then the refugee crisis in 2015 happened that affected all of Europe (even though we were mostly fine, since we are basically just transit country to further west, it still didn't help). In 2018, there was a political crisis here after a young journalist was murdered along with his fiancee - he was writing about the connections between politicians around Fico and several members of organized crime. There were a lot of protests, Fico was ousted and lost elections in 2020, but because the new government was a mess due to a lot of childish inter-fighting and some poor decisions during covid, people were largely frustrated with them and Fico won again in 2023. Covid and then war generally made everything worse, because the government could not concentrate properly on reforms they were meant to do and had to deal with these crises and then were blamed for the results like inflation and people being scared. (And of course the aforementioned misinformation websites that were already anti-LGBT, anti-Ukraine, anti-migrants, anti-liberal/west/America, etc. became anti-vaccine and anti-any covid precautions and then even more aggressively anti-Ukraine. And social media was making everything worse all this time.)

[Catlady in training]

I meant a president Trump has consequences on the rest of the world… It’s not that this latter can do anything about it… Sadly.

Yeah. I look back fondly at 2012 when my concern about US elections was about zero.

I’ve voiced the somewhat unpopular idea before that moderates are integral to stable democratic governance. If no one can compromise nothing important gets done. Parties can only accomplish relevant change through political dominance which contributes to an overall undemocratic and unstable political system.

I agree. Sadly, getting things actually done seems to be considered boring and a lot of people (and media to some extent) care more about conflicts and theatrics.