Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2024

[whitecrown]

I think it was about the pairings you won't see that often in 616. I've lost count of all the AUs that Namor and Sue are paired up lol. But that's what they are. Alternate universes. OMD and NXM both ruined their respective franchises' most iconic couples. At least Jott recovered lol.

Emma was never Scott's true love. That's revisionist history. He does love her but it's the exact opposite of MJ/Gwen situation. Peter loved MJ more than Gwen but Scott always loved Jean more than Emma. He married the redhead didn't he?

Even in the Chris Claremont Anniversary Special, he had a section based on Sue and the FF and one of the Sues was married to Namor. But this Namor was really T'Challa. In fact, making Namor another character seems pretty common as well since there's also the Exiles where Gambit of all characters was Namor.

This actually reminds me that, because there was a Hela/Phoenix connection discussed some days ago in this thread, the Claremont Anniversary Special also invoked both of them in Dani Moonstar's vision.



Peter/MJ has done pretty well in every medium except the comics. I don't get why the fogeys in charge are still so adamant on burying MJ and stuck to their ways. Hopefully Ultimate outselling Amazing gives them the realization that something's gotta give. And I agree with you about the rest as well. People who equate Gwen to Jean seem to only be going by the fact that both have famous death stories...the difference is that 616 Gwen stayed dead and was quickly supplanted by MJ. In fact, even in Gwen's lifetime, MJ was more popular despite Stan's misgivings as he preferred Gwen. And while Jean also died, she came back after six years and had a whole history afterwards that equated with MJ's.

[Darth_Caedus]

Even in the Chris Claremont Anniversary Special, he had a section based on Sue and the FF and one of the Sues was married to Namor. But this Namor was really T'Challa. In fact, making Namor another character seems pretty common as well since there's also the Exiles where Gambit of all characters was Namor.

This actually reminds me that, because there was a Hela/Phoenix connection discussed some days ago in this thread, the Claremont Anniversary Special also invoked both of them in Dani Moonstar's vision.



Peter/MJ has done pretty well in every medium except the comics. I don't get why the fogeys in charge are still so adamant on burying MJ and stuck to their ways. Hopefully Ultimate outselling Amazing gives them the realization that something's gotta give. And I agree with you about the rest as well. People who equate Gwen to Jean seem to only be going by the fact that both have famous death stories...the difference is that 616 Gwen stayed dead and was quickly supplanted by MJ. In fact, even in Gwen's lifetime, MJ was more popular despite Stan's misgivings as he preferred Gwen. And while Jean also died, she came back after six years and had a whole history afterwards that equated with MJ's.

Stan Lee always wanted to pair Peter with MJ after the death of Gwen Stacy. He had them married in his newspaper strips.

[whitecrown]

Stan Lee always wanted to pair Peter with MJ after the death of Gwen Stacy. He had them married in his newspaper strips.

Yes, but that was after Gwen was dead. When she was alive during the Romita era, Stan preferred her over MJ even though most fans preferred MJ. Hence why MJ was written out for a time but fan demand brought her back. Stan hoped that this awful new haircut would make fans give up on her but it was so negatively received that MJ got her real hair back.



Apparently Gwen was based on Stan's wife which is why he favored her and Gwen was killed off by Conway (who did prefer MJ and thought she was a much more interesting character) when Stan was away on a trip and couldn't interfere. Reportedly he wasn't happy with the decision. He did make his peace with MJ as the definitive love interest after some time, since as you said, he married MJ and Peter off in the newspaper strips and that's how we got their 616 wedding. It's another parallel with Scott/Jean since apparently their wedding in TAS helped prompt their comic wedding, hence why the first wedding in S2's premiere was proven to be a sham so it didn't beat the comics upon request.

[Darth_Caedus]

Yes, but that was after Gwen was dead. When she was alive during the Romita era, Stan preferred her over MJ even though most fans preferred MJ. Hence why MJ was written out for a time but fan demand brought her back. Stan hoped that this awful new haircut would make fans give up on her but it was so negatively received that MJ got her real hair back.



Apparently Gwen was based on Stan's wife which is why he favored her and Gwen was killed off by Conway (who did prefer MJ and thought she was a much more interesting character) when Stan was away on a trip and couldn't interfere. Reportedly he wasn't happy with the decision. He did make his peace with MJ as the definitive love interest after some time, since as you said, he married MJ and Peter off in the newspaper strips and that's how we got their 616 wedding. It's another parallel with Scott/Jean since apparently their wedding in TAS helped prompt their comic wedding, hence why the first wedding in S2's premiere was proven to be a sham so it didn't beat the comics upon request.

Yeah Stan came to believe that MJ was the true love of Peter's love, he has stated that multiple times and was upset by OMD. Interestingly enough, Peter and MJ are still married in the newspaper strips.

[whitecrown]

Yeah Stan came to believe that MJ was the true love of Peter's love, he has stated that multiple times and was upset by OMD. Interestingly enough, Peter and MJ are still married in the newspaper strips.

I'm glad he turned around. It's a pity he never got to see Peter and MJ together again in his lifetime, in the comics anyway. I didn't realize he spoke out about OMD. Not surprised to hear Peter and MJ are still together in the newspaper comics considering there's no Joe Q there. What an awful excuse for a human being, fridging two of Marvel's most beloved heroines of all time.

[Mercury]

Doesn't X require subscriptions now? I tend to avoid social media. I don't even have an Instagram account like 99.99 percent of my genmates

You don't have to enroll in a paid subscription to join Twitter; creating an account, profile, and posting is free. Most members aren't paid subscribers.

[Phoenixx9]

I agree with both of you. To paraphrase Claremont, as one aspect of Jean—a multitudinous being if there ever was one—was fragmented and dying, another aspect of her reached out with all her heart to Scott to comfort him, herself, or, perhaps, both of them. This notion that she's had no agency when, in reality, she made it possible for Hope and Exodus to bypass the White Hot Room's safeguards by imbuing the former with her fire (Hope admits as much in X-Men Forever #2) and has been in what amounts to a meditative state, repeating the mantra "NowAndForeverNowAndForever" throughout, is puzzling.

In fact, Simonson's Jean Grey implied that she was safeguarding Phoenix deep within her own psyche or being since the two are inseparable. One can even argue that this is what prevented the White Hot Room—the heart and home of Jean and Phoenix and the center of all creation—from imploding. She may not have been obviously active, but readers with basic knowledge of Phoenix, the White Hot Room, and spiritual or metaphysical concepts and states should recognize that she was operating on a level that transcends mortal actions and communication. After all, she never truly died. Even after Mother Righteous stabbed her, she continued repeating her mantra, as if by doing so she was holding everything together.

I always like this scene, especially that young Jean's TP did something that Xavier could not, while also adding in some Phoenix lore.

[Phoenixx9]

Yes! Are you on Twitter? I'd love to add you to a private group chat. (Anyone else who wants to join, hit me up at @jean_red_grey). I few CBR members are in it.

You know I would love to join you, luv, but I am not on Twitter. Also, my time constraints are harsh.

[Phoenixx9]

Ever since this character was created, she was basically asking to be absorbed into the fold.

The Minimate Database even characterizes her as Jean.
http://www.minimatedatabase.com/chars.php?i=14

Yes, I agree, either absorb her, or.........just totally forget her, lol!

[Primal Slayer]

[SturdyMike89]

Yes, but that was after Gwen was dead. When she was alive during the Romita era, Stan preferred her over MJ even though most fans preferred MJ. Hence why MJ was written out for a time but fan demand brought her back. Stan hoped that this awful new haircut would make fans give up on her but it was so negatively received that MJ got her real hair back.



Apparently Gwen was based on Stan's wife which is why he favored her and Gwen was killed off by Conway (who did prefer MJ and thought she was a much more interesting character) when Stan was away on a trip and couldn't interfere. Reportedly he wasn't happy with the decision. He did make his peace with MJ as the definitive love interest after some time, since as you said, he married MJ and Peter off in the newspaper strips and that's how we got their 616 wedding. It's another parallel with Scott/Jean since apparently their wedding in TAS helped prompt their comic wedding, hence why the first wedding in S2's premiere was proven to be a sham so it didn't beat the comics upon request.

That hair cut was... a choice. She looks like Annie who cut loose after growing into adulthood. Never really got why the comics were forced to delay their storylines (marriage mostly) because a show or movie was airing, and the characters start out as single. That kind of market synergy never works.

[Phoenixx9]

WOW! I love this compilation of Jean's powers! Thank you for posting it, Primal Slayer.

[whitecrown]

Yes, I agree, either absorb her, or.........just totally forget her, lol!

Wouldn't this also mean that Jean is technically Thor's mom then? Another reason to have her one day join the Avengers to witness that dynamic. Just when you thought the Summers-Grey family tree and Thor's family couldn't get any crazier, now they're both blended together.

Less familiar with Angela but who is her biological mother?

[whitecrown]

That hair cut was... a choice. She looks like Annie who cut loose after growing into adulthood. Never really got why the comics were forced to delay their storylines (marriage mostly) because a show or movie was airing, and the characters start out as single. That kind of market synergy never works.

I thought you meant Annie Richardson at first before realizing you meant little orphan Annie lol. I can definitely see it.

https://www.cbr.com/x-men-animated-s...ics-influence/
Bob Harras felt the show marrying Scott and Jean off before the comics had done it wouldn't look good and so he asked the show's creators to delay the wedding and Jean's pregnancy. I think in this case it was less about synergy and more about not wanting to get beaten to the punch.

[Phoenixx9]

Wouldn't this also mean that Jean is technically Thor's mom then? Another reason to have her one day join the Avengers to witness that dynamic. Just when you thought the Summers-Grey family tree and Thor's family couldn't get any crazier, now they're both blended together.

Less familiar with Angela but who is her biological mother?

I think the story was that she was not really Thor's mom--but helped to save his life so he could be born---or some such like that. More Jason Aaron craziness. Not sure about Angela's mother or even the 10th Realm which was added recently a few years ago.