Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Appreciation 2024

[dietrich]

Excuse me. Did I say something too offensive in that part?

You could be clear about the offensive part in my comment. That way I could know the issue.




I've never said these should be the only options. I guess I could have asked "Should have they included one or two white characters in that TT team?"

That said, you have said the plan was to make that TT team a rogue team. And you make an accusation of racism for making minorities characters for that kind of team. That's why I make that stupid question.

In itself, DC should have never make a TT team with an attempt to make them go rogue. I just doubt choosing minorities for that team was due to racism.

English isn't my first language so I don't know the exact way to get my point across better.
For every decision we make there is an intention or some existing mindset/pov/worldview/belief driving the decision.
Conscious or subconscious.

Like when someone is mandated to make an lgbtq+ character and they create an effeminate man or a masculine woman in overalls.

They might not intentionally or consciously trying to be stereotypical but they are being and that was due to their thought process being influenced by a certain view of what an lgbtq+ person is like.

Does that make sense?

We all have bias that influence the way we see the world and the people around us.

DC chose to have rouge TT team recruited by the POC Robin

A POC Robin that they chose to turn evil baby Hitler and oust from the role of Robin.

They chose an all minority line up for this rouge team

In the the series they chose to have a scene where a part Middle Eastern character literally straps bombs to himself and threatens to build himself and his enemy up.

All those choices were intentional is what I am saying. I don't for a fact what the reasons were but it's most likely bigotry.


I apologise for saying stupid question. I got heated.

[Aahz]

I just doubt choosing minorities for that team was due to racism.

Honestly I think that might have something to do with them hardly creating any new "straight white characters" these days. When every you do currently a team with charactesr that have been created post flashpoint you will almost automatically end up with a line that consists mostly of minority characters.

[dietrich]

Honestly I think that might have something to do with them hardly creating any new "straight white characters" these days. When every you do currently a team with charactesr that have been created post flashpoint you will almost automatically end up with a line that consists mostly of minority characters.

Crush, Djinn and Round were original minority characters created for and debuted for Damian's Rouge Teen Titans Teams.

[Fergus]

Lmao!
The last couple or so pages of this thread have been something else.
Every attempt to explain away the possibility of bigotry just reveal another layer of the actions or choices that adds more credence to the decisions being motivated by bigotry

[skyvolt2000]

How no one at DC thought the optics of turning the main POC Robin a villain would be bad is mindblowing........

Well how many folks even know he is a POC. Has that been made clear in the main Batman book or any non DC Pride book?

Some Tim fans seriously don't seem to get what actual bad treatment by DC is. Has DC ever really tried to turn him into a villainy? To kill him?

There are different levels to trashing a character that you hate.
Look at the last 8 years of Black Panther.

Show a Batman book where Batman would punch Duke, Jace, Luke and Lucious and tell them to go back to Africa like we saw Cap America do to T'Challa.
Show me a Batman book where you KNOWINGLY hire a writer who does not care for the character that they are writing.
Show me a Bat book where every single female in the franchise talk down to Batman like a DOG including Catwoman and have her fans TROLL you like nothing is wrong. Heck you got folks DEFENDING it.
It gets so bad editorial has to REJECT a cover because of the trashing of the character.
And you the fan gets LECTURED for NOT supporting the book.

That is bad treatment. Where the company doesn't care how much money they lose.

[Konja7]

Well how many folks even know he is a POC. Has that been made clear in the main Batman book or any non DC Pride book?

Although I admit that Damian being white passing could be one of the reasons why many writers (and readers) don't recognize him as a POC, his last TT run really has some focus on Damian roots.

The writer wanting to show this aspect of Damian when the direction for that book was to make him a villain is a weird choice, but I don't think it's necessarily ill-intentioned.

[dietrich]

Well how many folks even know he is a POC. Has that been made clear in the main Batman book or any non DC Pride book?

Damian hardly appears in the main Batman book [you follow comics so I know you know this] but yes it has been made very clear that he is a POC in THE main Batman book before all this happened.

DC has made it clear that Damian is a person of colour even before Flashpoint. He even showed in Tim's Robin series as a person of colour.

He has also won both Gamesradar Greatest Middle Eastern Superhero Award and Comicbeat Best Middle Eastern Superhero in Western comics award.
Even fans who don't read comics know he's a POC.

Baffling how hard you guy's are going to squash this. Skyvolt you drag racism into everything and here you are defending DC because it's Damian wayne.

I've noticed that in all your complaints about DC being racist to characters you routinely ignore everything they've done to Damian.
I get you are a Tim fan but you should recognise that when a writer depicts a character of middle Eastern heritage as suicide bomber there's bigotry afoot.

Fans do know that he is ethnic. Some say non visibly ethnic means not ethnic smh.
However a vast amount of Damian comic content depict him as ethnic.
More important the TT comic run by Adam Glass which we are talking about depicts Damian as a brown person with Asian features.

It even goes the extra mile to have Damian say that he identifies as a middle Eastern and has never felt at home in Gotham



Next you are going to tell me that the reason why Damian wasn't included in this CBR Dc Minority report thread [a thread that celebrates diversity in the DCU]
is because the thread creator doesn't know Damian is a POC.


The thread creator has updated this thread twice to add new
or missed minority characters [in 2018 and 2023] and each time doesn't include Damian.

More damning is the fact that the very first comment on https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ity-in-the-DCU!!

is this

Cool thread. BTW, I know it hasn't started yet, but should Damian Wayne be on the list? He's at least 1/4 Arabic. He'll be in Super Sons and Teen Titans. Also, Helena Bertenelli is a dark skinned Sicilian, not sure exactly how that fits for race. Also, the new Rucka run STRONGLY hints that Diana is bisexual.

I do want to say that I've always preferred DC's take on diversity over Mervel's in that they rarely seem to chase headlines, and just let the characters be what they are.

El Gato took the feedback and made changes adding Helena and Diana but left Damian off the appreciation thread.

The sad reality is that the problem isn't just DC being discriminatory .
it's fans turning a blind eye,
dismissing the discrimination because it's a character they dislike/favours a character they like
minorities discriminating against each other

I give up, I'm unsure of the rules and not looking to get banned. I'm not accusing anyone but these are just stuff I've noticed that bugged me.

You guys think the thing with DC is all coincidence? Fine I don't but I wasn't at the meetings with them.
I'm done with this debate.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Damian hardly appears in the main Batman book [you follow comics so I know you know this] but yes it has been made very clear that he is a POC in THE main Batman book before all this happened.

DC has made it clear that Damian is a person of colour even before Flashpoint. He even showed in Tim's Robin series as a person of colour.

He has also won both Gamesradar Greatest Middle Eastern Superhero Award and Comicbeat Best Middle Eastern Superhero in Western comics award.
Even fans who don't read comics know he's a POC.

Baffling how hard you guy's are going to squash this. Skyvolt you drag racism into everything and here you are defending DC because it's Damian wayne.

I've noticed that in all your complaints about DC being racist to characters you routinely ignore everything they've done to Damian.
I get you are a Tim fan but you should recognise that when a writer depicts a character of middle Eastern heritage as suicide bomber there's bigotry afoot.

Fans do know that he is ethnic. Some say non visibly ethnic means not ethnic smh.
However a vast amount of Damian comic content depict him as ethnic.
More important the TT comic run by Adam Glass which we are talking about depicts Damian as a brown person with Asian features.

It even goes the extra mile to have Damian say that he identifies as a middle Eastern and has never felt at home in Gotham



Next you are going to tell me that the reason why Damian wasn't included in this CBR Dc Minority report thread [a thread that celebrates diversity in the DCU]
is because the thread creator doesn't know Damian is a POC.


The thread creator has updated this thread twice to add new
or missed minority characters [in 2018 and 2023] and each time doesn't include Damian.

More damning is the fact that the very first comment on https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ity-in-the-DCU!!

is this


El Gato took the feedback and made changes adding Helena and Diana but left Damian off the appreciation thread.

The sad reality is that the problem isn't just DC being discriminatory .
it's fans turning a blind eye,
dismissing the discrimination because it's a character they dislike/favours a character they like
minorities discriminating against each other

I give up, I'm unsure of the rules and not looking to get banned. I'm not accusing anyone but these are just stuff I've noticed that bugged me.

You guys think the thing with DC is all coincidence? Fine I don't but I wasn't at the meetings with them.
I'm done with this debate.

You're absolutely spot on and the downplaying of Damian being a POC is weird.

[Jackalope89]

My only issue with that part, is that Damian is supposed to be vegetarian. So, him having ox blood soup, didn't sit right with me.

[OBrianTallent]

Mods might need to rename this thread from the Tim Drake appreciate thread to something else....It's definitely not been about Tim.........

[phonogram12]

Well how many folks even know he is a POC.

Probably about the same number of people who knew that Starfire was an extraterrestrial rather than a white woman on the Titans show (fer real, the outrage over the fact that she was portrayed by a black woman was absolutely ridiculous).

Mods might need to rename this thread from the Tim Drake appreciate thread to something else....It's definitely not been about Tim.........

Or maybe they (along with the posters participating in this thread) can do their best to make sure we stay on topic.

[Rac7d*]

My only issue with that part, is that Damian is supposed to be vegetarian. So, him having ox blood soup, didn't sit right with me.

Damian sad that when he was 10. hes died 4 times since then. and I've seen him eat chicken legs, hot dogs, burgers. Sure we can pretend they were all vegetarian options or rather likely his diet changed. He became a vegetarian becasue of batcow, when was the last time he saw her?

[Jackalope89]

Probably about the same number of people who knew that Starfire was an extraterrestrial rather than a white woman on the Titans show (fer real, the outrage over the fact that she was portrayed by a black woman was absolutely ridiculous).



Or maybe they (along with the posters participating in this thread) can do their best to make sure we stay on topic.

Her being portrayed by a black woman was about one of the few things NOT wrong with Starfire. In general, Titans really crapped the bed on most of the characters in one way or another. Sometimes, in multiple ways.

Anyway, here's to hoping Tim can get a half decent direction, NOT be Robin anymore, and DC can find him a niche like the other Robins have.

[Digifiend]

Spoilers for Batman #148
spoilers:

Tim has a new costume.

end of spoilers
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/tim-...-148-spoilers/

[Konja7]

Spoilers for Batman #148
spoilers:

Tim has a new costume.

end of spoilers
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/tim-...-148-spoilers/

I don't think it will be a peemanent new suit. Jason seems to have different suit in this issue too.