How does Amazing Spider-Man reclaim its mojo?

[Kevinroc]

To be fair vol 5 didn't advertise the PeterxMJ aspect until the ending of the first issue leaked.

This is true. But it gets at the question of how this run ends and how they promote vol 7 while this run is still going on.

I don't think they can do that again. The surprise factor that the first issue of Vol 5 went with. Not after how Vol 6 has gone.

The question is how do you promote Peter x MJ for vol 7, if that is the direction they are going, with Ultimate Spider-Man also currently being published.

And what do you promote if you aren't promoting Peter x MJ after how Vol 6 has gone?

[Kurus]

ASM is the flagship and one of the biggest names in comics, I feel like a relaunch with a shiny new #1 and with a hyped creative team (not that I really know what that would be at this point) would do well.

Good luck getting a creative team that will get people hyped after all controversy. Chip wouldn’t take the book before the Wells run, and I’ll bet a lot of writers after seeing this run won’t touch ASM with a ten foot pole.

[Daibhidh]

Good luck getting a creative team that will get people hyped after all controversy. Chip wouldn’t take the book before the Wells run, and I’ll bet a lot of writers after seeing this run won’t touch ASM with a ten foot pole.

I'm sure there are a lot of creators who have looked at USM and have ideas of what they could do that would get positive fan reaction. The question is whether editorial will ok their ideas.

[Garlador]

Good luck getting a creative team that will get people hyped after all controversy. Chip wouldn’t take the book before the Wells run, and I’ll bet a lot of writers after seeing this run won’t touch ASM with a ten foot pole.

That depends. It’s still a best-selling title with a historic legacy, so we know some writer will jump onboard, even if others pass or are rebuffed.

And, secondly, knowing so clearly what kind of book fans DO want is an easy layup for a writer to start off with high goodwill if permitted to “correct” the mistakes of the past.

It’s manipulative, but I’d be lying if I said one of the reasons I jumped into Jeremy Adams’s Flash run wasn’t when I heard he fixed the character. He fixed Wally after Heroes in Crisis. He restored the marriage that editorial erased. He leaned into the supporting cast HARD. He did everything I would want out of a Spider-Man book and rebounded the whole character and his world for me. And as a result, I’ve became a fan of the writer’s other endeavors, all because of that goodwill he earned winning me back.

Wally started at a worse place than Peter did, so all it takes is one good writer who understands the character and the fanbase to deliver something that makes readers happy to jump back onboard and look forward to previews again instead of clenching up at how things will go wrong THIS month. If Wally can do it, any hero can - especially Spider-Man and his crew.

[bob.schoonover]

Is there any evidence to support this so-called factoid? All I have found is that ASM #800 itself went to a third printing, with a new cover for each printing. I have found nothing, however, about specific variants of ASM #800 getting third printings. To be honest, that sounds like something someone made up to make ASM #800 look like it sold better than it actually did. What is far more likely is that some covers of ASM #800 sold far better than others and managed to hit the threshold required for Marvel to okay a second and third printing of ASM #800 with all-new covers, which is a far cry from multiple specific variants were so popular that Marvel did second and third printings of those covers.

Looks like I misread the webpage (that's what happens when you post while watching an intense basketball game, I suppose). The third printing had multiple J Scott Campbell covers that were identical to first printing covers, only w/o the title on them (virgin covers). So no, specific covers didn't get three printings, but the third printing had MANY variant covers which were cosmetically identical to previous variant covers. But yes, multiple covers got a second printing (just as part of the third print run). Still a fun factoid, but different.

As an aside, no one needs to "make ASM #800 look like it sold better than it actually did." That's such a silly assertion. Action Comics #1000 and Detective Comics #1000 are the only books published from 2016-2019 that sold better than ASM #800.

[Spider-Tiger]

I think it's also important to note that Ultimate is an alternate universe title. It's not a flagship book. ASM doing reasonably well (particularly around relaunch time) is not an anomaly. It's a book that in its entire history, even during the low point of the Mackie run, never sells below 50k or leaves the monthly top 25. (And if it ever does, that is an anomaly for that title.) Just a glance at May of the year 2000 has the book clocking in at #12.

But an alternative universe title potentially selling more than double the company's flagship books 4 issues into its run with multiple printings across multiple issues is a huge anomaly. No one here predicted that it would perform that well because there is no precedent for that. Even the original Ultimate Spider-Man series didn't perform that well. And it certainly isn't the Ultimate branding or the creative team by itself because Ultimate Invasion by Hickman didn't perform anywhere near this.

So it absolutely is something worth investigating further to determine ways to attract and maintain this audience before the "newness" of Ultimate fades. Because this book will absolutely see attrition over time as every book sees. But, in an industry that's hurting, you want these people to continue coming into shops and picking up books in these numbers. Discounting this title's success over others (or even just waiting for attrition to happen) seems incredibly foolish.

[Frontier]

Good luck getting a creative team that will get people hyped after all controversy. Chip wouldn’t take the book before the Wells run, and I’ll bet a lot of writers after seeing this run won’t touch ASM with a ten foot pole.

I'm not even sure who is available. Most of the big name Marvel writers are either busy or transitioning to other work.

[bob.schoonover]

I'm not even sure who is available. Most of the big name Marvel writers are either busy or transitioning to other work.

Phillip Kennedy Johnson and Christopher Cantwell are not huge names but have very well-regarded runs under their belts. Where are the Krakoa writers going next? Duggan or Gillen? Greg Pak's Darth Vader run is about up, and Alyssa Wong only has one book now, I think?

Running the twice monthly book is hard and I imagine, among other things, Lowe looks for people that have done some tight-knit universe writing before, so I'd look at people that wrote for Krakoa, Star Wars in the ESB-RotJ gap, or any book that shipped 15 books a year.

[Jman27]

I'm not even sure who is available. Most of the big name Marvel writers are either busy or transitioning to other work.

whats Duggan doing after x-men

[Mister Mets]

Well, that's post-OMD.

People were eviscerating the books during the Clone Saga too.

And Byrne/Mackie was considered so bad that my CBG warned me not to buy 616.

Some people will always eviscerate the book. Sometimes it's for stories we'll hate. Sometimes it's for stories we'll like.

Before the Clone Saga, there was Peter Parker No More. When JMS came on board, there were plenty who thought his style was too cinematic and wanted more continuity.

USM is outselling ASM by more than 2x.

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/ulti...stseller-list/

With results like these, the question must be asked. How can ASM reclaim its mojo?

ASM is #2, so every other book would need to reclaim its mojo. By those metrics, it overperformed Avengers by over 25%.

The data here can be imprecise. It measures sales on Tuesday-Friday in 100 stores, which may not be representative. It's enough to indicate that Ultimate Spider-Man is a massive hit, but specifics are murkier.

That's not how investors think.

They're going to want to know why Marvel is leaving money on the table with ASM.

Investors would have to be familiar enough with the comics market to notice the sales difference, and then stubborn enough not to be persuaded by explanations.

[Mister Mets]

And then Dan gets asked why the other books aren't perfoming up to the same level.

He actually has less cover than he did when ASM was selling neck and neck with Batman, because at least then there wasn't money being left on the table.

Now there is.

I don't think a success makes things worse.

You think the question would be "Why is a book on it's 48th issue selling less well than an issue written by a superstar writer as part of a new publishing initiative?" That's . . . not a serious question. ASM under Wells has sold at a reliably high level twice a month for two years. There's little evidence that sales on ASM have dropped in any meaningful manner (and more to the point, Wells is probably leaving in the next 6 months and there will be a relaunch in the near future, so even if sales have dipped a bit, some form of change is already coming soon) or out of the natural attrition that happens with every comic book run of any reasonable length of time. Dan Buckley is probably getting more comments from above about telling contractors to stop revealing details of internal decision making in podcast interviews than he is about ASM sales. This Ultimate Universe is brand new and there is a presumption in all of these questions that these great sales on USM will sustain indefinitely despite the entire history of comic runs that show that there is steady attrition in a title's sales until some sort of event or stunt re-boosts them, then they continue dropping, wash, rinse, repeat. It is far more likely that USM is at more like a multiple of 1.2-1.5 in 4 months than that it's still at 2. Not because of anything about Wells or Hickman, but just because of how attrition goes historically.

The whole Ultimate Universe is leading towards a confrontation with The Maker in about a year and a half. After that big event, are we sure Hickman stays on USM? The Marvel brain trust knows more about what's going to happen soon (how long is Hickman staying on, what happens after USM 20, etc.) than we do and have to take a long view about their properties. That's the risk Dan Buckley, Nick Lowe, etc. have to keep in mind when they see these USM sales figures, that USM sales are great but more volatile because something big will happen soon. It'd be incredibly risky to the point of stupidity to change up ASM because of USM before they even know if USM can keep its sales up with any other writer on it.

With the sales success of Ultimate Spider-Man, I think Marvel will want to keep Hickman on it.

My impression is that he's pretty expensive as a writer. This is why he left the X-Men when he realized that he wouldn't be able to do the world-building Marvel paid him to do.

This may also be why GODs is ending with #8.

This is true. But it gets at the question of how this run ends and how they promote vol 7 while this run is still going on.

I don't think they can do that again. The surprise factor that the first issue of Vol 5 went with. Not after how Vol 6 has gone.

The question is how do you promote Peter x MJ for vol 7, if that is the direction they are going, with Ultimate Spider-Man also currently being published.

And what do you promote if you aren't promoting Peter x MJ after how Vol 6 has gone?

It seems easy enough to showcase covers and interior scenes with MJ. It would depend on how significant she is to the story, for example- she were a deuteragonist.

[Garlador]

ASM is #2, so every other book would need to reclaim its mojo. By those metrics, it overperformed Avengers by over 25%.

That’s actually a VALID question and not a deflection. Of course, Spider-Man is SPIDER-MAN. He makes as much in merch as almost the whole other Marvel universe combined. As much as I want Moon Knight and She-Hulk and others to sell at his level, it’s not feasible. Spider-Man sells and even my child watches Spidey & His Amazing Friends (the brainwashing starts early. lol.)

However, I’ve argued the industry overall isn’t nearly as healthy as it should be. I’ve heard countless stories now from shop owners and readers of USM generating foot traffic into LCS - which is GREAT! - but they’re not walking out with other books. That’s customers in those stores, surrounded by quality titles, and leaving with just a copy of Spider-Dad.

The MCU movies were making billions at the box office. The population of earth has TRIPLED since I started reading comics. Yet growth largely isn’t there and books are struggling to last beyond 12 issues, no matter the talent. Hickman’s G.O.D.S. wasn’t even immune to that.

So I’m getting the impression that ASM was king of a dwindling hill, when USM (and UXM and UBP) are showing how much potential was untapped across the mountaintops of the comic book landscape.

I would very much want to know - as a businessman - what steps would be needed to elevated ASM to USM’s sales numbers, along with how those steps could be applied to other titles as well.

The fact remains a quality book by an amazing writer with incredible art isn’t enough. The publishers need to do something MORE.

[Frontier]

Phillip Kennedy Johnson and Christopher Cantwell are not huge names but have very well-regarded runs under their belts. Where are the Krakoa writers going next? Duggan or Gillen? Greg Pak's Darth Vader run is about up, and Alyssa Wong only has one book now, I think?

Running the twice monthly book is hard and I imagine, among other things, Lowe looks for people that have done some tight-knit universe writing before, so I'd look at people that wrote for Krakoa, Star Wars in the ESB-RotJ gap, or any book that shipped 15 books a year.

whats Duggan doing after x-men

Duggan I can see getting it but I think I read somewhere he might be transitioning away from Big Two comics.

If they want a "name," PKJ might be a solid option if he's willing to do it (I'm not sure of his feelings on Spidey in general).

[Scott Taylor]

Galactus alone can fix it.

They should give him the power to eat planets and then reset them by pooping them out.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Investors would have to be familiar enough with the comics market to notice the sales difference, and then stubborn enough not to be persuaded by explanations.

Both the PR nightmare of Wells' run (see Kamala fiasco) and massive USM are anomalies - enough to potentially catch a higher-up's attention - and I think (thanks to USM) the BND Editors ran out of any plausible deniability when questioned about this stuff.

So I'm not too worried.