It's been a year since Marvel has deemed Moon Girl the "smartest person"

[Marvell2100]

I wouldn't care if she wasn't seven. Why not just big up Mockingbird, Shevaun Haldane(criminally underused female genius and great design), Polaris, Emma or turn Kavita Rao into a superhero? Or just create someone new?

Personally I think there is will to a find something offensive. Generally I hope, people are not objecting to female geniuses at all. I think it's that she's a child. It's one of thing for her to a prodigy but billing her as the smartest person in the marvel universe just seems absurd.

From the X-Men side though and I do understand that there is an issue with her being a civilian with some posters, Moira was the big brain they used to call on frequently. I think when she died she was the most prominent female genius and it became more of a sausage fest. The Illuminati in my opinion did not help. I hated that concept. Really made me dislike all involved.

Valeria Richards is a child and at one point she was or is considered smarter than Reed.

Again, my question is what does it matter if Lunella is considered the smartest? Who in the MU does that hurt? If the characters you mentioned were made into super-geniuses, would it be a guarantee that it would increase their usage or exposure.

Lunella was created for a specific audience with a specific message and I don't see the problem with that.

[Kintor]

Again, my question is what does it matter if Lunella is considered the smartest? Who in the MU does that hurt? If the characters you mentioned were made into super-geniuses, would it be a guarantee that it would increase their usage or exposure.

Lunella was created for a specific audience with a specific message and I don't see the problem with that.

That sounds all well and good except for the fact that Marvel is pushing Moon Girl all over the MU, even when she doesn't fit into other books. I mean, Moon Girl's book is supposed to be light-hearted fun but then she becomes a major character in Secret Empire thanks to Secret Warriors. By all rights Moon Girl should be traumatised after witnessing Captain America's concentration camps, talk about tonal whiplash. It's just another example of how Marvel doesn't care about the new characters they've created, they'd throw Moon Girl into a brutal and dark situation just to sell more Secret Empire tie-ins.

[Marvell2100]

That sounds all well and good except for the fact that Marvel is pushing Moon Girl all over the MU, even when she doesn't fit into other books. I mean, Moon Girl's book is supposed to light-hearted fun but then she becomes a major character in Secret Empire thanks to Secret Warriors. By all rights Moon Girl should be traumatised after witnessing Captain America's concentration camps, talk about tonal whiplash. It's just another example of how Marvel doesn't care about the new characters they've created, they'd throw Moon Girl into a brutal and dark situation just to sell more Secret Empire tie-ins.

Marvel can push anyone they choose. It's not incumbent upon everyone to read everything they promote.

Valeria has seen as much death and destruction if not more than Lunella. It's not something that's relegated to just new characters.

[skyvolt2000]

That sounds all well and good except for the fact that Marvel is pushing Moon Girl all over the MU, even when she doesn't fit into other books. I mean, Moon Girl's book is supposed to be light-hearted fun but then she becomes a major character in Secret Empire thanks to Secret Warriors. By all rights Moon Girl should be traumatised after witnessing Captain America's concentration camps, talk about tonal whiplash. It's just another example of how Marvel doesn't care about the new characters they've created, they'd throw Moon Girl into a brutal and dark situation just to sell more Secret Empire tie-ins.

So it's an issue for Moon Girl yet not for the X-Men brats? Power Pack kids? Rage (who was really a 12 year old kid), Patriot 2 or any other kid that has had that done to them in and outside of Marvel.

[Kintor]

So it's an issue for Moon Girl yet not for the X-Men brats? Power Pack kids? Rage (who was really a 12 year old kid), Patriot 2 or any other kid that has had that done to them in and outside of Marvel.

The X-Men are no stranger to the dark aspects of the Marvel universe, even their younger characters. Moon Girl on the other hand was created with a much lighter tone compared to the X-Men, a book that could avoid Marvel's most horrific ideas and bring in new readers. So what does Marvel do only months later? They have Moon girl touring concentration camps and fleeing for her life against a wave of Hydra inspired ethnic cleansing. I mean seriously, Marvel should have just made Moon Girl its own bubble universe, separate from the rest of the MU, that way they could avoid messes like this.

[Mike_Murdock]

That sounds all well and good except for the fact that Marvel is pushing Moon Girl all over the MU, even when she doesn't fit into other books. I mean, Moon Girl's book is supposed to be light-hearted fun but then she becomes a major character in Secret Empire thanks to Secret Warriors. By all rights Moon Girl should be traumatised after witnessing Captain America's concentration camps, talk about tonal whiplash. It's just another example of how Marvel doesn't care about the new characters they've created, they'd throw Moon Girl into a brutal and dark situation just to sell more Secret Empire tie-ins.

Wait, since when is appearing in one other book "pushing all over the MU"?

[Hizashi]

Red Wolf will appear alongside Hawkeye in Avengers: No Surrender. The name Occupy Avengers was mentioned in the solicits so it's possible Tilda and Wheels will show up as well.

Really? I might have to pick up the books. But it's gonna be back-to-back, huh? My poor wallet...

[Michael Watkins]

I think they should have just labeled her the most clever and called it a day. cleverness is more fun to demonstrate than "smartness," imo.

[dzub]

Curious, is there any feats Lunella has achieved to keep her the smartest?

[Michael Watkins]

Curious, is there any feats Lunella has achieved to keep her the smartest?

I'd assume so. Cho said as much.

[Marvell2100]

Curious, is there any feats Lunella has achieved to keep her the smartest?

She gets a thread bump every so often. Pretty smart for a character who doesn't exist.

[Michael Watkins]

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20170205071004

here's her translating a monster language with a helmet she created.

[Mike_Murdock]

Curious, is there any feats Lunella has achieved to keep her the smartest?

I'm not fully caught up in her own book but she refined Forge's machine to make it smaller, more efficient, and effective in IvX.

[Tiamatty]

[QUOTE=Digifiend;3187324]I see Cassie Lang wasn't happy about that either. She sees Hank as an uncle.[quote]
I didn't read it as her being upset about Reed's comment. Just shocked. Plus, it made for a fantastic spit-take. That is one of my favourite scenes from Slott's Mighty Avengers run.

Yeah, Mockingbird should be on that list. She's smart enough to have been called upon in All-New Wolverine and I suspect that new job she mentioned in Amazing Spider-Man will be at Pym Labs, as she was already assisting Nadia's GIRL organisation there, as a mentor.

Bobbi should become the go-to guest star when comics have stories involving diseases or biology. Let McCoy and Pym rest. Bobbi's a brilliant bio-chemist, let her show it off more often.

Yeah. Janet's actually a fashion designer, and nowadays, a businesswoman, owning both her own boutique and Hank's tech firm, Pym Laboratories. Sue was secretly a SHIELD agent, but Reed thought she was a housewife. She'll need a new job when she comes back, now that SHIELD is gone.

I do actually really like Janet being a great businesswoman. It works for her.

Honestly thats probably because they didn't work at it. Don't get me wrong there is some sexism towards these girls but some of the hate with current marvel is that their new pet characters feel unearned.

Reed, Tony etc didn't become the ultimate genius all at once. They had decades to get to that point. I remember when Tony wasn't so smart and needed a computer expert to help with his suit every now and then before inventing the cure for cancer. I remember Reed asking other experts in their field was help in past issues. It makes sense that in their experience over time the geniuses were able to pick up on things here and there to be the super geniuses they are here.

That crap just isn't earned with girls like Riri or Lunella. It's like that Generations issue where all the future heroes were gushing over Riri.. like ok, why is she so great? We are never told that. Just that she is great and better than anyone. It all feels forced and unearned.

Reed, Tony, Banner and the others were still introduced as brilliant scientists. They were still introduced as geniuses who could go from lab to crime-fighting and back to the lab, equally adept at both. Marvel has only in the last two years let female characters be the same. So I figure, screw the rankings, what matters is women being able to exist in the same space men do.

Those things have been pushed recently. Before I'd say two years ago, I didn't even know Mockingbird was anything else than a SHIELD agent and a superhero, and I've read the entirety of the WCA. I have never been shown before that she was anything else than that. I would call that a retcon of a sort, but that's just my personal opinion.

Not a retcon. She was introduced as a scientist. She was a scientist before she was a superhero, in Ka-Zar's comics in the '70s. She was routinely shown in that comic as being good at both bio-chemistry and espionage. It was when she became Mockingbird that her scientific side got pushed aside a lot. She still showed it now and then in the WCA days, but not often. Then she spent 20 years dead. And when Bendis brought her back in New Avengers, he didn't do much to demonstrate her education. And then Secret Avengers made some use of it, but was more about her being a badass spy. Cain's Mockingbird run was a big reminder to everyone that, good as she is at hitting people, she's maybe even better at bio-chemistry. Whitley, always a fan of awesome female characters, also saw an opportunity to draw attention to that side of her, by making Nadia a huge fan of Bobbi the researcher. Hopefully, that's the side of her that continues to get focused on going forward.

There you go: superhero AND businesswoman, just like Tony Stark. Why does the argument go only for science? I don't see a male character that's a superhero AND a fashion designer, and I don't yell sexism. Where are the male nurses AND superheroes? Or the secretary AND superhero? Come on, the list could go on for ever... I just don't see why it's so important to have the female version of every male superheroe. I like Janet exactly because she's like no one else, man or woman. And at the end of the day, if I were a superhero in need of a science buff, I'd call Reed or Tony or Pym. Certainly not a child. Oh wait... they're dead/MIA! How convenient...

Janet's pretty unique in terms of being a superhero/fashion-designer in the MU. As far as male nurses and heroes, well, it's not like there's a lot of female superheroes who also work as nurses, either. Sadly, comics have shifted away from superheroes also having day jobs. And sure, male heroes don't work as nurses, because instead, they actually get to be doctors.

And as for the "female version of a male superhero" bit... I was under the impression this is what Tiamatty wanted: (post #112 on page 8)


At the end of the day, I don't care if they make more female scientists in the MU. As long as it's not crapping on the established heroes, or replacing them, or making them look like idiots just to show how the newcomer is better than them. As for myself, I know my worth, I don't need a comic book to show me I can do something. Ultimately, what I wish for little girls is to know you can follow your dreams no matter what they are, whether you want to be a doctor, an artist, a chef, a make-up artist, an archeologist, a teacher, an athlete, or whatever you can dream of.

My point is about female characters getting to exist in the same spaces as women. I'm not saying there needs to literally be a female version of Hank Pym. I'm saying there needs to be female characters who are active as superheroes and who are also intellectual peers of Hank Pym. I'd point, once again, to Toni Ho. She doesn't need to be the female Tony Stark. But she is someone who's on the same intellectual level as Tony Stark, and she should retain a superhero identity and be able to be on the same level as him in terms of capability as a superhero. (Give her a learning curve, yeah, but still let her be a superhero and super-scientist, in the same basic vein as Stark and Pym and McCoy and the rest.)

All genius talks have an understood "second behind Stilt-Man" clause in them. Just like talks about who's toughest are understood to mean "second behind Squirrel Girl".

Ahh, OK, I'm with you.

That sounds all well and good except for the fact that Marvel is pushing Moon Girl all over the MU, even when she doesn't fit into other books. I mean, Moon Girl's book is supposed to be light-hearted fun but then she becomes a major character in Secret Empire thanks to Secret Warriors. By all rights Moon Girl should be traumatised after witnessing Captain America's concentration camps, talk about tonal whiplash. It's just another example of how Marvel doesn't care about the new characters they've created, they'd throw Moon Girl into a brutal and dark situation just to sell more Secret Empire tie-ins.

Moon Girl's book leans light-hearted because it's meant to be appropriate for a younger audience. But she is allowed to exist outside that book. Hellcat was light-hearted, for the most part, and she was allowed to be in other books. Power Pack was a family comic, and they tied into the goddamn Mutant Massacre. There's really nothing wrong with Lunella being in Secret Warriors. And she hardly became a "major character" in Secret Empire. She was in one series that tied into it.

As for her being traumatized, she's resilient.

[Mutant God]

Marvel can push anyone they choose. It's not incumbent upon everyone to read everything they promote.

Valeria has seen as much death and destruction if not more than Valeria. It's not something that's relegated to just new characters.

Is that a typo?