Who is the superior telepath: Emma or Non-PF Jean Grey

[rutog98]

How was she scaled down? Emma herself has admitted that Jean is the stronger psychic.

Of course Emma said that. When Emma said Jean was stronger than she, IIRC, Jean was being boosted by the PF in those instances. Also, in the Jeen instance, there was so much PIS it isn't even funny.

Look, in other stories prior to this, we saw Emma stalemate Exodus in psi combat. When Adult Jean fought Exodus, he massacred her as if she were nothing. Also, we see Emma smashing through dozens of anti-TP gadgets created by Dark Beast while Jean (who was boosted by the Psylocke's TP being added to her own) couldn't even get through anti-TP gadgets created by the Russian government. Now, Dark Beast would have had access to advanced alien tech like the Shi'ar and Apocalyse stuff from the AOA (he crossed over from AOA). Keep in mind that Poccy has Celestial tech which Dark Beast would have likely brought with him to this timeline. So, he is not only a much greater science genius than the Russian folks who created the psi-blocking tech that stopped Jean, but he would have also had access to better technology to build his stuff (which failed against Emma).

Also, Emma was such a strong foe that when she fought the Phoenix Force back in the late 70s/80s, it saw her as a strong enough threat that it took measure first the strengths and weaknesses of her mental shields and fighting ability before it truly went on the attack. That means that Emma had to be very impressive both defensively and offensively in psi-combat that the PF felt she would have been hard to overcome if it just went right in for the attack from the start.

Now, given that, how is Jeen, who is weaker than Adult Jean, who is MUCH weaker than the Phoenix Force, going to beat Emma so easily especially when Emma is boosted by a fragment of the Phoenix Force? Answer: Jeen can't beat Emma under these circumstances without Emma being scaled down BIG time in this fight. On top of this, Emma is both more skilled and more experienced than Jeen.

Then we have the comparison with Adult Jean losing so disgracefully against Exodus while Emma was able to stalemate him.

Yeah, again, if Emma were written up to par in that fight with Jeen, there is no way Jeen could win even if Emma was not boosted by the PF. Boosting Emma with a fragment of the PF in that fight only made the PIS worse. Then having Jeen beat boosted Emma effortlessly only makes the PIS that much more obvious.

[Triniking1234]

25 bleeding pages?

O my stars and garters.

[Sin Nick]

Without reading through all the posts, I thought is was common knowledge Jean is better than Emma in every way. Say if Jean is Goku, then Emma is definitely her Vegeta. Whatever momentary power up Emma may gain, Jean will always be a step or 2 ahead.

[perdid06]

Jean is the most gifted, and her mutation give her an affinity to the Phoenix, Phoenix is her potential, her potential is unlimited.
Emma is a strong telepath, she knows her power and potential, and is a master at using her powers in many creative ways, plus she isn't afraid to play dirty and use her powers in a way other telepath will not dare to....
But for me, jean is like Mozart, she is an unique genius... Emma on the other hand is a virtuose, she mastered her art by training, but no amount of training will ever made her genius!

[rutog98]

Jean is the most gifted, and her mutation give her an affinity to the Phoenix, Phoenix is her potential, her potential is unlimited.
Emma is a strong telepath, she knows her power and potential, and is a master at using her powers in many creative ways, plus she isn't afraid to play dirty and use her powers in a way other telepath will not dare to....
But for me, jean is like Mozart, she is an unique genius... Emma on the other hand is a virtuose, she mastered her art by training, but no amount of training will ever made her genius!

Jean was more gifted than Emma only because of the whole being genetically fit to host the PF. The point I'm making is without the PF boost, Jean is far below Emma.

[rutog98]

Oh, and Emma never said Jean was stronger than she during the 90s. When Emma referred to Jean being the more powerful of the two, she was referring to the Morrison-era Jean, who was boosted by the PF. So, that nullifies that because of the PF thing.

This thread is about how Jean fares against Emma on the merits of her own power without the Phoenix boost. Going by that, Emma wins all day every day.

[Del torro]

She did not have access to the Phoenix in the 90s, so that is why my argument is hinged on the 90s Jean vs. Emma. Emma is much stronger than the 90s Jean. When you get into the late 90s/early 2000s, Jean's gets Betsy's TP added to her own, which nullifies any of her feats from this era. Then, after that, Morrison restores the PF to Jean in New X-Men #120, which nullifies any Jean feats during his run from that point forward. Jean dies at the end of Morrison's run.

So, again, we have to go by the 90s Jean, who pales in comparison to Emma Frost.

Jean got betsys astral form, how does that nullify all of jeans feats like mindcontrolling people or breaking psi defenses or casting illusions or hijacking other peoples powers? even, did they ever state that jean lost it? wouldnt it be part of her standard power now? nobody says we should discard all of psylockes feats since the telekinesis belongs to jean and was made even stronger by her brother, nobody says we should discard xaviers feats after he was amped by the mkraan crystal.

you dont want feats from seagle and kellys run, even though jean didn't have the phoenix and was using its imagery as a representation of her power,
you dont want feats from revolution because she had a different coloured astral form,
you dont want feats from endsong because jean was in tune with her powers and the phoenix,
you dont want feats from new xmen when jean was exploring her innate powers said to be like a psionic sun in her brain (which is the phoenix, as it is asid to be jeans mutation and her blood gives people Phoenix powers) without actually hosting the force which would allow her to easily flu in space, move astelike pebbles or not die in the sun,
you dont want feats feom ghost jean who possessed emma, and suppressed hee, despite the fact that emma had a phoenix shard amping her powers.

no, you want to restrict jean to feats from an era where it has been said that she is holding back her power because she is sacred of what she'll become and she doesnt want others to be scared of her. you complain that jeans powees have a lot to do with the phoenix, ignoring that the phoenix is jeans ultimate mutation, the full expression of jeans mutant abilities, that jeans powees will always evolve to become the phoenix.

you want to write off all of jeans showings, and restrict her to a point Where shes still living in fear of dark phoenix amd afraid to express her own powers. even apocalypse and onslaught commented on how jean still had the potential of phoenix but was scared and holding it back. is that what you want all of us to admit? that emma is superior to a scared, holding back 90s jean grey? that emma would beat jean if she didn't access her full powers? then i agree completely.

you convinced me, Emma frost is stronger than the weak, scared and always holding back jean grey. emma frost is superior and would beat her in a fight, the way people like exodus , onslaught and shadow king did.

now, Revolution jean, new xmen jean and endsong jean, even ghost jean, they would beat emma frost in a good fight. emma needs the phoenix to stand on their level.

[Dementia5]

25 bleeding pages?

O my stars and garters.

CONGRATULATIONS EVERYONE! See you in another 25!

[perdid06]

Jean is the phoenix that her mutant heritage, it's part of her...
Second, most of Emma feats were the last 14 years( or when she was a full vilain), Im the 90's women were show to be weaker, just to make treat like exodus or x-man look more dangerous....
If Jean had been alive the last 14years, who know how she will have evolve.
Despite all that, Jean always been described a unique talent, beast said she was the mount Atlas of telepath, never I read anywhere someone in the comics mentioning that Emma surpass Jean....

[Del torro]

why is the phoenix a boost? isnt it jeans ultimate mutation? the full expression of her muatnt abilities? arent phoenix and jean one? wasnt jean tapping to innate phoenix powers in new xmen without actually hosting the phoenix? wouldn't that count as her power? since both onslaught and apocalypse said that jean still had phoenix power and potential in her to be awakened.
if storms ultimate mutation is becoming a full elemental being, we woulnt consider it a boostm we would call ot hee power. we dont call nate greys shaman phase a boost, we call it him mastering and fully expressing his powers.

so why is it different for jean, they refer to the phoenix as part of jeans omega level potential in new xmen, but we the fans must always argue and steuggle to seperate and divide them

[The_Greatest_Username]

Of course Emma said that. When Emma said Jean was stronger than she, IIRC, Jean was being boosted by the PF in those instances. Also, in the Jeen instance, there was so much PIS it isn't even funny.

Look, in other stories prior to this, we saw Emma stalemate Exodus in psi combat. When Adult Jean fought Exodus, he massacred her as if she were nothing. Also, we see Emma smashing through dozens of anti-TP gadgets created by Dark Beast while Jean (who was boosted by the Psylocke's TP being added to her own) couldn't even get through anti-TP gadgets created by the Russian government. Now, Dark Beast would have had access to advanced alien tech like the Shi'ar and Apocalyse stuff from the AOA (he crossed over from AOA). Keep in mind that Poccy has Celestial tech which Dark Beast would have likely brought with him to this timeline. So, he is not only a much greater science genius than the Russian folks who created the psi-blocking tech that stopped Jean, but he would have also had access to better technology to build his stuff (which failed against Emma).

Also, Emma was such a strong foe that when she fought the Phoenix Force back in the late 70s/80s, it saw her as a strong enough threat that it took measure first the strengths and weaknesses of her mental shields and fighting ability before it truly went on the attack. That means that Emma had to be very impressive both defensively and offensively in psi-combat that the PF felt she would have been hard to overcome if it just went right in for the attack from the start.

Now, given that, how is Jeen, who is weaker than Adult Jean, who is MUCH weaker than the Phoenix Force, going to beat Emma so easily especially when Emma is boosted by a fragment of the Phoenix Force? Answer: Jeen can't beat Emma under these circumstances without Emma being scaled down BIG time in this fight. On top of this, Emma is both more skilled and more experienced than Jeen.

Then we have the comparison with Adult Jean losing so disgracefully against Exodus while Emma was able to stalemate him.

Yeah, again, if Emma were written up to par in that fight with Jeen, there is no way Jeen could win even if Emma was not boosted by the PF. Boosting Emma with a fragment of the PF in that fight only made the PIS worse. Then having Jeen beat boosted Emma effortlessly only makes the PIS that much more obvious.

Okay, so my assumption is correct. You’re so blinded by your hatred for Jean you refuse any evidence that supports her. You use the evidence of Exodus beating Jean but stalemating Emma as evidence without considering that perhaps Exodus was scaled down for Emma?

[Triniking1234]

How'd you people even go about this power comparison anyway?

The best point of reference would be to use X-Factor to Blue Team Jean to the Emma of that era. It felt like Post AoA (or maybe after the wedding) they started raising Jean's power levels back to Phoenix-possessed levels.

[perdid06]

In many way that's not even really interesting, Emma is who she is, she is a brilliant Character , she never needed to be over powered to be a joy to read... Emma and Jean are complete opposite, each have qualities and faults, and their interactions always have been great moment in comics.

[Del torro]

25 bleeding pages?

O my stars and garters.

the X telepaths are the only ones worth talking about

Xavier
jean
psylocke
emma
cable
cuckoos
martha
rachel
nate grey
quentin
karma
artie
monet
teen jean

they should make a telepath xbook (like new xmen). with them investigating psychic crimes and phenomenon.

they fight scientist's grafting telepath brainnparts to give psychic powers
telepathic alens invading
shadow king working with Cassandra nova orchestrating everything, but planning to kill eachother
legion going nuts and everyone scrambling to get him under control
having a psychic disease containment center on the astral plane
Madelyn Pryor shenanigans with jean
Proteus again
a demon invasion
apocalypse trying to restart weapon 14 (thats the cuckoos program?)
dealing with one of the avengers accidentally brings a psychic plague to earth and trying to contain it
an ai robot invasion
then a phoenix story, or something.

Morrison would do something crazy with it.

wish Emma had a larger role in Phoenix resurrection (i wish anyone would have a larger role), i like her interactions with jeans ghost in jeans solo

[Victorian_Soul]

I'm just gonna post a list of everything Jean can do telepathically, then say Emma's better.

Jean Grey it’s one of the most powerful telepaths, to such an extent that she had been stated to be the most powerful. Jean is able to use her telepathy in different ways as Mind Communication, Mind Reading, Mind Transferral, Mind Detection, Psychic Surgery, cast near flawless Illusions, project her Astral Form, control the Astral Plane, create Psychic Links with other beings and Mind Manipulation. She’s able to manipulate minds in different ways as Mind Control, Mind Possession, Hypnosis, induce Paralysis, modify or erase someone memories, Amnesia, prevent another mutant to use his powers, increase another mutant’s powers, induce Pain, change someone’s personality. At close range Jean can manipulate any number of minds at once. Jean can also mentally injure, stun or kill opponents with bolts of pure psionic force. Her psychic powers are so strong that they can bypass numerous forms of immunity and resistence.

Jean Grey it’s also able to protect her mind and another’s ones from Mind Intrusion. Her defensive telepathy allows also her to Cloak Mind and to Telepathic Cloak.

After her power switch with Psylocke, she temporally manifests a Phoenix symbol over her right eye on her astral form. Jean also starts since this moment to manifest her telepathy as a Phoenix raptor.

Emma Frost herself, stated that Jean Grey "..goes beyond a regular telepath(...) she's judge and jury".

Animal Telepathy – She can psychically read and the minds and communicate with animals.

Mental Manipulation – She can manipulate and control the thoughts, mindsets, and upper brain functions of others.

Mind Walking – She can enter the mind of another person.

Psionic Blast – She can launch psi-blasts to cause mental damage.

Psychic Communication – She can communicate with ones mind.

Psychic Illusions – She can create and manipulate near flawless psychic illusions.

Psychic Inhibitors – She can place psychic inhibitors in others’ mind.

Psychic Shield – She can protect herself or others from psychic penetration.

Psychic Shield Penetration – She can penetrate psychic shields.

Psychic Energy Manipulation
Psychic Pyrokinesis – She can manipulate flames made out of pure psychic energy.

Psychic Electrokinesis – She can manipulate electrically charged psychic energy.

Courtesy of Comic Vine providing knowledge for everyone.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/jean-grey/4005-3552/