X-Men Red #4 Spoilers - We Have a King, a Goddess, and a Gabby

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

This is the first time I'm following a book with Storm in it and I have to ask: Do these arguments happen every time she appears in a comic?

Unfortunately yes. Storm's CBR followers turn every little comic she's in into a Storm thread.

It's like when the Phalanx, or Borg assimilate & spread.

[remydat]

Sorry but that's just basic logic that shouldn't need to be argued. A mutant should be immune to their own powers.

When storm said "it is all around me..it is me" and brought down the lightning bolt she was also targeting Jean's entire team

No it isn't. Some snakes are immune to their own venom, some snakes are immune up to a certain point and some snakes are not immune at all. It is the height of comic book silly logic for anyone to just assume a mutant is immune to their own powers 100% of the time.

[remydat]

I'm saying this in a hushed tone. Why are you still bent on telling me things I've already accepted? I've already made the conscious decision to overlook the glaring omissions of her power to better enjoy the story as a whole. I was simply explaining why Rutog's argument had merit. I honestly don't know what your point is because clearly you are back disagreeing with me to turn around and agree with me. I'm certain you haven't read all my posts in this particular thread. If you had, we would not be having this exchange. You're still my boi tho. I think I'll just use you to prove my points from now on. At least nobody can call you a delusional Storm fanboy for presenting the same exact case I am. You acting like bae right now. Lolololol

Umm no, you implied I want fans to reject feats and I simply corrected you. I am not suggesting fans reject feats. If you say you understand and accept what I said then not sure why you are suggesting I want fans to reject feats. So it is you that is not reading what I wrote. I am saying all feats good, bad and ugly are canon. It is canon that Storm is sometimes immune and it is cannon that sometimes she isn't. Both exist in the canon. Storm fans simply just want to only accept the canon that makes her overpowered. That is what I disagree with Rutgog on because he and other Storm fans seem to want to ignore any poor showings by Storm as if only the good showings count. They all count.

[Ambaryerno]

This is the first time I'm following a book with Storm in it and I have to ask: Do these arguments happen every time she appears in a comic?

Didn't you see the thread for the last issue? The thread exploded for like 100 pages simply over whether it was Jean or Storm that Cassandra was afraid of. And then after Taylor confirmed the answer, (Jean) the argument STILL dragged out over it.

[Sundowhn]

He teleported Rogue 800 miles in a span of a minute in Second Coming. His final port before death was him teleporting Hope from Vegas to Utopia in one jump

And given the resurrection story, of his body being created from bamfs, and bamfs haven't been stated to have any range limitations that I know of, he may have gotten a subtle power upgrade. /shrug

[Assam]

Didn't you see the thread for the last issue? The thread exploded for like 100 pages simply over whether it was Jean or Storm that Cassandra was afraid of. And then after Taylor confirmed the answer, (Jean) the argument STILL dragged out over it.

Yeah, I remember. I just wanted to confirm that this wasn't limited to this book and it was a regular thing.

[ariwl1]

Sorry but that's just basic logic that shouldn't need to be argued. A mutant should be immune to their own powers.

When storm said "it is all around me..it is me" and brought down the lightning bolt she was also targeting Jean's entire team

Generally true but there are several instances to the contrary. Firestar comes to mind most prominently. That boy Northstar tried to save who kept exploding. etc.

[Daedra]

It should be noted that Jean doesn't have the feats to compete with pre-"goddess" Storm. What some people try and do is use feats she's accomplished with the Phoenix Force when they get backed into a corner when her character is compared with Storm's numerous high end feats. The same thing happens when Jean is compared to Emma, Xavier, Shadow King, Magneto, Exodus, and a bunch of other characters who are more powerful than Jean Grey. So, it's not like I try and lowball the character. I merely give an accurate gauge of Jean's powers when she isn't being boosted by the Phoenix Force or Cerebro.

you keep posting the same nonsense day after day and still does not make it real, Jean is established in the comics as an omega level mutant, omega means unlimited potential for growth, for some arcane reason somewhere along the way you developed a fantasy about marvel pushing Jean to the detriment of storm (despite the fact that jean has been dead for 14 years ), trying to diminish Jean wont make storm any better, acting like you hold ultimate judgement over this character will not turn your personal bias into hard facts.

[BBeeryan]

Her solo was not consistent with past continuity yet I don't see any Storm fans complaining. The fact is Taylor and Pak are two sides of the same coin. The only difference is as a Storm fan, you are fine with Pak changing things to add more to her powers. That is perfectly fine for you to feel that way. However, for a general fan that understands her history, it is Pak suddenly trying to make her completely immune that to a large extent is outside the norm for her and so that is why we are not too broken up about it.

I think characters should be written in line with the powers they have exhibited consistently for much of their history. To the extent a writer decides to give them a power up that they never had before, it is entirely up to future writers to decide whether they will treat that as a permanent upgrade or simply an ability that was a temporary upgrade to suit a finite story.



I think the disconnect is that such things work both ways. Characters can hone their attributes and characters can lose abilities or be inconsistent because they are afterall human. Humans don't just continue to get better and often times as we age, our abilities decline. Her solo again added something that for decades was never a part of her repertoire consistently. It is up to Marvel and their writers to decide whether what Pak did is now the new norm or whether what Pak did was an aberration or one off thing and all that happened here is Taylor ultimately decided he would stick with the powers that have been consistently shown over several decades.

In a medium where writers come and go, there will always be some writers that take liberties with characters. Sometimes those liberties will be to weaken a character in a way that is outside of the norm and sometimes it will be to strengthen a character in a way that is outside the norm. It only becomes the norm when Marvel and its writers show that feat consistently over time. Storm being immune to her own powers is simply not something that has been shown consistently over time and Storm fans are only treating it as gospel because it went in her favor. If Pak did something that weakened her, you all would be arguing it is not consistent with her previous feats. So there is a bit of a bias here.

You give them something to munch on. Everybody was bumping their gums about Coates' portrayal of Storm, the one true Hadari Yao of legend not being referenced in the X-books so it wouldn't matter. How's that egg on the face of Hadari Yao's haters? I hope they make a breakfast panini out of it.

There was every reason in the world for Storm to join this team. She was the only logical choice given the landscape Jean found herself in. As soon as the preview for issue #1 dropped I personally made mention of how everything seemed to be tailor made for 'Ro. Lololol I wasn't the only one that noticed it. When a few of her other knowledgeable and perceptive fans saw the preview, they came to the exact same conclusion that I did. Only then we were accused of making everything about Storm. The irony being, the only person in this series that Jean has ties to all by herself is Cassandra Nova. And technically that's not even true because it's recently been brought to my attention that Storm has gone up against Cassie during her time with X-force. So as it appears, every single character in this series has a legitimate tie to Storm, despite the fact that it's lead by Jean Grey. But I don't wanna hijack this thread and make everything about Storm when literally everything IS about Storm... *sips tea*

I very much agree with this. Shut it down! Shut it DOWN!

I love you, remydat. And it's for no other reason than you have a knack for explaining to me that which I already know and have openly expressed. I'm aware that writers are going to take liberties. I'm aware that not all writers are going to know about every feat she's ever pulled. That is still not going to stop me from pointing something out that doesn't pay tribute to her most recent upgrades. That hasn't stopped me from enjoying the issue. I'm acknowledging that Storm has shown an increase in her fine control. Yes, my bias is in full effect. I've never denied that. It's the nature of the fandom. Your idea that something needs to be shown consistently over time is something I agree with. People were butthurt that she snatched the air out of someone's lungs when she first did it. Ironically that also happened in a mini that was solely focused on Storm. Now that she's been consistently shown to be able to do it on a whim, people are still butthurt, they just keep it to a minimum. Lol overall I agree with your point. Not every writer is going to remember every feat. But it is highly illogical to expect fans of a character to reject feats that have been given to their faves in stories that were specifically designed for said character. That just sounds ridiculous. And it's even weirder that this needs to be explained.

Lol it's funny because the idea that Storm would drown when her full range of power is at her disposal is also a very illogical point to make. If she was without her full power given to her by right of birth, then and only then, could a logical case be made for Storm as a drowning victim. But luckily we don't have to worry about Storm being without her power. The one good thing to come out of X-men Gold is the fact that Storm's power can no longer be nullified. With that said, the scan below answers your question, no?

Thank you for this. We needed you in these times of hard struggle. People are using false talking points and discrediting themselves in the process. LAWDHAMERCY... lololololol

I am not asking you to reject any feats. My point is simply it's still canon. The canon is Storm screws up sometimes. Again you don't have to like it but it is the canon. The canon right now for example is that Gambit has been fairly incompetent lately. I don't like it. I don't read stories where he botches simple jobs that should be easy for a thief of his caliber but the reality is the end result of those stories is that he botched the job and was portrayed incompetently.

So I don't really care whether you like the story or not. My only point is just like how her upgrades are canon so are her downgrades. How you feel about one or the other is simply a matter of personal preference. Storm may be a Goddess but she is a flawed Goddess who can be hurt by her own powers. I know this because I just read it happen in this issue so it is now officially canon. You are free though to not like it but it doesn't change the reality that it is now canon. It is no more PIS than her originally being given the immunity in the first place when CC or Pak decided she needed it for that particularly story they were writing. Just like the breathing underwater thing was clearly just written by CC for that particular story as well. Outside of their original powers, every character in comics gains and loses powers based on the plot. The only distinction is whether we like it or not.

I'm saying this in a hushed tone. Why are you still bent on telling me things I've already accepted? I've already made the conscious decision to overlook the glaring omissions of her power to better enjoy the story as a whole. I was simply explaining why Rutog's argument had merit. I honestly don't know what your point is because clearly you are back disagreeing with me to turn around and agree with me. I'm certain you haven't read all my posts in this particular thread. If you had, we would not be having this exchange. You're still my boi tho. I think I'll just use you to prove my points from now on. At least nobody can call you a delusional Storm fanboy for presenting the same exact case I am. You acting like bae right now. Lolololol

Umm no, you implied I want fans to reject feats and I simply corrected you. I am not suggesting fans reject feats. If you say you understand and accept what I said then not sure why you are suggesting I want fans to reject feats. So it is you that is not reading what I wrote. I am saying all feats good, bad and ugly are canon. It is canon that Storm is sometimes immune and it is cannon that sometimes she isn't. Both exist in the canon. Storm fans simply just want to only accept the canon that makes her overpowered. That is what I disagree with Rutgog on because he and other Storm fans seem to want to ignore any poor showings by Storm as if only the good showings count. They all count.

Excuse me, but no dice. Our new exchange started when you intercepted a post that was I response a poster that was implying that fans should reject 20 year old feats that have been deemed null and void after her first solo. You chimed in on my post in response to someone that wasn't being realistic about the current state of events. In my eyes, your argument was in support of what richalex was saying. This is why you got the response you got. My point was a counter argument to richalex's assertion. You presented a counter argument to my mine. That's where we are.

[Dementia5]

Sorry but that's just basic logic that shouldn't need to be argued. A mutant should be immune to their own powers.

This makes sense. Psylocke shouldn't be able to stab herself with her own psychic knife, Bobby can't freeze himself, and Jubilee can't blind or burn herself with her own plasmoids. If this was possible then mutants wouldn't be able to use their powers.

[BBeeryan]

This makes sense. Psylocke shouldn't be able to stab herself with her own psychic knife, Bobby can't freeze himself, and Jubilee can't blind or burn herself with her own plasmoids. If this was possible then mutants wouldn't be able to use their powers.

I absolutely agree with this. And someone already mentioned how the Summers brothers can't harm each other with their powers.

[butterflykyss]

One bone claw on each hand, and a healing factor. Does she have enhanced senses? Dunno but she can't feel pain. Some nanites that don't seem to serve any positive purpose.

thanks beloved. never heard of her before this issue.

Sorry, if Storm really wants to kill everyone, they all have brain aneurysms and just die instantly. No bolts from the sky necessary.

Attachment 66014

Attachment 66015


And if Storm was targeting everyone else(and not just herself) why was Nezhno able to just cover her? Taylor fumbled this plot point, no uber-mega powers necessary.

thank you yoga. we ain't just griping for the sake of it. excellent points.

The above exchange really kicked into gear with richalex's initial response to me. He made a point to imply my portion of the argument was based in the idea of giving Storm all her high end feats while forcing everyone else to use their lower end feats. How else was I supposed to interpret this? "So you all pick and choose what you want to use, only everyone else has to abide by the lower showing of characters. Got it." it seems pretty self explanatory to me. Problem being this was in response to a post of mine. How, tho? I never implied anything like that. I never even went in about her perceived lack of indomitable will or the potential lethality of her lightning. Even though these things registered to me, I never let the absence of these characteristics dampen my enjoyment of the series. That means I purposely ignored those things in order not to spoil my enjoyment of this series. Had richalex replied to Rutog with that post, there would have been no need for me to chime in on that regard. His first post offered a telling of events from around the time Storm won leadership of the Morlocks. How many years ago was that? I chimed in to respond because using any feats of her supposedly electrocuting herself all this many years around go has no bearing on the conversation now. Its irrelevant. Anyone attempting to do so is lying by omission because Pak has given us receipts. Had richalex posed that post to rutog and not me he and the posters that piggyback ed off of him wouldn't have come across as ridiculous as they have. That's my point. They don't get to level ridiculous arguments against my posts and not expect to be called ridiculous.

I totally agree that the way things played out it's a no harm, no foul type deal. That doesn't change the perception that her indomitable will and her lightning immunity appeared to be glossed over. Again, these things didn't bother me to the point where I was incapable of enjoying the issue. Other fans pointed out things that I went on to explain in greater detail.

You know I tend to agree with you about Storm's power, so you don't have to waste time convincing me. I was already team #rutogwasright!


Kyss, because it's real. The things some people write in regards to Storm's power is more than a bit galling. You, Rutog and a few other Storm fans pointed out some things that just didn't add up. That doesn't make this issue terrible. It makes it known that there's room for improvement. It's still the best X-book on the market. I'm biased in that regard tho. Lolololol

you're being honest and just stating the facts. i thought the issue was good too but these observations are still very much valid.

Is Storm a scientist? Are you confused that people can be wrong about things? Storm may think she is immune but unless the science is explained then it is just her opinion. She obviously was wrong because lightning did hurt her. My body makes makes blood. So I am immune to blood diseases. I guess because I said it with no science to back me up, it must be true. Of course, in the real world we know it isn't.

You are saying if you deviate from canon you should have a reason. The canon was that lightning can hurt her. You are now telling me it was changed without an explanation because saying you are immune because you create lightning isn't an explanation. It's dumb comic book logic. So her immunity violates the very tenant you are expressing. It is not explained why she is immune. You just accept she is because she said so.

If Wolverine tried to explain his healing factors and changes to it, I would laugh at him as well. He doesn't know shit about why he has a healing factor because he is not a scientist and he knows jack about it. Likewise, I don't expect Gambit to understand how he creates explosions by charging shit. He just does it. None of these characters are science buffs to understand the nature of their powers or any immunity they think they have. They just know things via experience and trial and error but the problem with relying on trial and error is that eventually you may encounter a trial that disproves what you previously thought. Storm thought she was immune. She and the reader found out she was not in this issue in all cases.

It would be different if the character in question was Beast and he studied scientifically the processes and mechanism by which these powers or immunities work. However, until they do, it is fair game for those processes and mechanism to be revealed as not being 100% reliable.

I'm still waiting for you to explain how lightning hurt her in the past and how it relates to this instance.

This is the first time I'm following a book with Storm in it and I have to ask: Do these arguments happen every time she appears in a comic?

nope not unless people make invalid comments.

Unfortunately yes. Storm's CBR followers turn every little comic she's in into a Storm thread.

It's like when the Phalanx, or Borg assimilate & spread.

lol

[SonOfPsylocke]

This is the first time I'm following a book with Storm in it and I have to ask: Do these arguments happen every time she appears in a comic?

Yes, the Storm fans literally ruin every single thread for everyone else. They will make you eventually hate her just for the way they preach on and on about her.
They have single handedly ruined the entire community and x-board.

[Daedra]

Wouldn't it make sense that ,if Storm can stop lightning from hurting her, she could just as easily will it to harm her, maybe her lightning defense is not passive like her resistance to extreme temperature but an active ability, also regarding the fight sometimes it is all just a matter of whomever attacks first, I have no doubt that storm can kill people instantly with her electric manipulation but conversely it is also true that a telekinetic like Jean by applying her powers internally in a destructive and ruthless fashion could kill someone in terrible and countless ways, after all if your mental muscle is able to smash metal turning someone's organs into jelly is just child's play, clearly we will never see storm nor jean do such things to characters devoid of a good dose of healing factor.

Yes, the Storm fans literally ruin every single thread for everyone else. They will make you eventually hate her just for the way they preach on and on about her.
They have single handedly ruined the entire community and x-board.

I'm a storm and Phoenix fan, I love both characters immensely but so far It's really embarrassing to see the same poster over and over turning this into some kind of thugs war

[butterflykyss]

Wouldn't it make sense that ,if Storm can stop lightning from hurting her, she could just as easily will it to harm her, maybe her lightning defense is not passive like her resistance to extreme temperature but an active ability, also regarding the fight sometimes it is all just a matter of whomever attacks first, I have no doubt that storm can kill people instantly with her electric manipulation but conversely it is also true that a telekinetic like Jean by applying her powers internally in a destructive and ruthless fashion could kill someone in terrible and countless ways, after all if your mental muscle is able to smash metal turning someone's organs into jelly is just child's play, clearly we will never see storm nor jean do such things to characters devoid of a good dose of healing factor.