How do Black Panther fans feel about Storm?

[MindofShadow]

As I asked Cville, what did the people do beyond just loving Tchalla? That's not world-building. The story of WoW is exactly that and that is what Coates was able to do which i think did a lot more to help the franchise than hurt it.

1. Gay wrote WoW, not Coates.

2. Remind me exactly what was so great about the Wakandan civilians in WoW and what they did? From quick memory, the five issues went over the Doras (not civilians) focusing on Aneka and Ayo (not civilians) love story, with a dash of civilians dying in floods, civilians dying to BO, and resueing civilians from crime.

So, if your definition of "what the people do" is... die and be rescued... that is in a lot of books lol.

But, with your tendency to move goal posts quickly when people point out facts to you that don't jive with your narrative, I don't really wanna waste my time unless you are very specific.

Because, now your definition of world building is "what do wakandan civilians do?" ... which is the most bizarre definition I have come across.

[Cville]

Yea there is a thing called lowballing for the purposes of allowing other characters the get the shine. Do you really think a character who can move faster than the speed of sound, can attack opponents with less than a conscious thought, and warp weather on a global scale if written to her fullest potential would have been tagged like that? You wouldn't have a story or conflict ever if Storm was actually shown doing just half of what she is capable of doing. And Storm most certainly could solo a shiar or kree empire if she can wreck weather on a global scale. Just look at the real world impact of such storms as hurricane Michael and Katrina. Storm can do that 1000x over and with out much of a sweat.

I'm sure there is incentive to do so for synergy purposes but did you ever stop to think that maybe the end game is to have Tchalla ultimately with Ororo which is why Coates put them back together and has worked slowly to do so?

But to your point it is a coin flip there is no sure way to know how it will end on either side.




I don't see how you could possibly care about characters if they don't have a decent amount of impact to the story. Why are we supposed to care about characters if you don't write them in a meaningful way? And to you your point about the supporting characters are interchangeable, replaceable or able to be killed is why I believe previous stories prior to Coates is why you didn't find readers caring about them beyond Tchalla. Coates created an entire series to deep dive into the stories involving the Dora. Those types of depictions is why for some you care about them beyond them just protecting Tchalla.

This was all in relation to Tchalla though. What did these people like and what did they do beyond just glorifying Tchalla? That is why world-building is important.



As I asked Cville, what did the people do beyond just loving Tchalla? That's not world-building. The story of WoW is exactly that and that is what Coates was able to do which i think did a lot more to help the franchise than hurt it.

As it's a comic about and called Black Panther, are they supposed to do something more? When Wakanda is explored, I expect it to go through Tchalla or whoever the BP is. Everybody else is used for page filler.

[butterflykyss]

1. Gay wrote WoW, not Coates.

2. Remind me exactly what was so great about the Wakandan civilians in WoW and what they did? From quick memory, the five issues went over the Doras (not civilians) focusing on Aneka and Ayo (not civilians) love story, with a dash of civilians dying in floods, civilians dying to BO, and resueing civilians from crime.

So, if your definition of "what the people do" is... die and be rescued... that is in a lot of books lol.

But, with your tendency to move goal posts quickly when people point out facts to you that don't jive with your narrative, I don't really wanna waste my time unless you are very specific.

Because, now your definition of world building is "what do wakandan civilians do?" ... which is the most bizarre definition I have come across.

1. this was all written under his consultation and based upon his vision for the franchise.

2. The interactions of Aneka and Ayo for one and them fighting for something they believed in that went beyond protecting Tchalla. It made characters who were seemingly one-dimensional have multiple dimensions. Seeing their interactions on a level that went beyond Tchalla was appreciated in that we get to see things beyond Tchalla. It gives depth to those around him.

World-building is giving meat to the world around Tchalla. That would include any and everyone aside him including the Dora, royal family, and/or civilians.

And no need to make things personal. There can be an exchange of thoughts and ideas without any of that.

As it's a comic about and called Black Panther, are they supposed to do something more? When Wakanda is explored, I expect it to go through Tchalla or whoever the BP is. Everybody else is used for page filler.

Yea that is true but it doesn't mean you can't show what is happening with the people beyond him. If everything is just from his perspective and what is in his best interest you simply will never care about anything beyond him.

[Cville]

1. this was all written under his consultation and based upon his vision for the franchise.

2. The interactions of Aneka and Ayo for one and them fighting for something they believed in that went beyond protecting Tchalla. It made characters who were seemingly one-dimensional have multiple dimensions. Seeing their interactions on a level that went beyond Tchalla was appreciated in that we get to see things beyond Tchalla. It gives depth to those around him.

World-building is giving meat to the world around Tchalla. That would include any and everyone aside him including the Dora, royal family, and/or civilians.

And no need to make things personal. There can be an exchange of thoughts and ideas without any of that.



Yea that is true but it doesn't mean you can't show what is happening with the people beyond him. If everything is just from his perspective and what is in his best interest you simply will never care about anything beyond him.

If you want all those things, i think it would work best in a 22-24 episode season CW style show.

[butterflykyss]

If you want all those things, i think it would work best in a 22-24 episode season CW style show.

actually the black panther movie did a great job of this. it was a nice balance. that is how his solo should be written.

[Cville]

actually the black panther movie did a great job of this. it was a nice balance. that is how his solo should be written.

I think the biggest stories for the support came out after the movie in the deleted scenes and director comments. In a season long TV show, they would have been on screen.

[MindofShadow]

1. this was all written under his consultation and based upon his vision for the franchise.

2. The interactions of Aneka and Ayo for one and them fighting for something they believed in that went beyond protecting Tchalla. It made characters who were seemingly one-dimensional have multiple dimensions. Seeing their interactions on a level that went beyond Tchalla was appreciated in that we get to see things beyond Tchalla. It gives depth to those around him.

World-building is giving meat to the world around Tchalla. That would include any and everyone aside him including the Dora, royal family, and/or civilians.

And no need to make things personal. There can be an exchange of thoughts and ideas without any of that.

ok so, supporting cast...

So my previous answer still stand. McGregor and Priest did the heavy liftingin world building while Hudlin gets MAJOR kudos for creating modern Wakanda and Shuri. Those three did far more than Coates has done IMO. Which isn't even talking shit about Coates. It is just that those three did so much of the heavy lifting (which makes sense, the built the character essentially) and when Coates gets all thise world building praise, it is just irritating.

Oh, and the big three also did the world building in just solo books. They didn't get spin offs to write about W'kabi or Okoye or Shuri or whatever. They had to do everything in one book.

On the supporting cast alone, for example, Priest utilized Okoye, Nakia, QDJ, Ross, Monica, Ramonda, Zuri, Hunter, Vibraxas, Nikki, and T'chaka and UTILIZED them... not throw them in a story and disappear. They weren't just power sets to be used. They weren't twists. They all had their unique roles in the story that enhanced the story. And this isn't even getting into mixing in people such as Storm, Captain America, Iron Man, Wolverine, Iron Fist, Namor, Doom, Magneto, ect.

[butterflykyss]

I think the biggest stories for the support came out after the movie in the deleted scenes and director comments. In a season long TV show, they would have been on screen.

I'm not sure I understand what ur saying here. what did the deleted scenes and director comments have to do with the movies popularity?

[Cville]

I thought we were talking about representing supporting characters and bringing them depth.

[DragonsChi]

excellent post.

You've summed up one of the major reasons why i rarely post on this subject.

Some just choose to post blatant falsehoods to support their vapid positions built upon a flimsy foundation.

^^^^^^
this

[butterflykyss]

I thought we were talking about representing supporting characters and bringing them depth.

we are.

ok so, supporting cast...

So my previous answer still stand. McGregor and Priest did the heavy liftingin world building while Hudlin gets MAJOR kudos for creating modern Wakanda and Shuri. Those three did far more than Coates has done IMO. Which isn't even talking shit about Coates. It is just that those three did so much of the heavy lifting (which makes sense, the built the character essentially) and when Coates gets all thise world building praise, it is just irritating.

Oh, and the big three also did the world building in just solo books. They didn't get spin offs to write about W'kabi or Okoye or Shuri or whatever. They had to do everything in one book.

On the supporting cast alone, for example, Priest utilized Okoye, Nakia, QDJ, Ross, Monica, Ramonda, Zuri, Hunter, Vibraxas, Nikki, and T'chaka and UTILIZED them... not throw them in a story and disappear. They weren't just power sets to be used. They weren't twists. They all had their unique roles in the story that enhanced the story. And this isn't even getting into mixing in people such as Storm, Captain America, Iron Man, Wolverine, Iron Fist, Namor, Doom, Magneto, ect.

hudlin did definitely develop shuri (even though she was in fact the main character at that point and a lot it still revolved around what it meant to be bp) so thats fair but utilizing a character doesnt mean showing depth beyond their interaction to the main character. but I will take your word on these examples because I hsvent read all of the old BP stories.

[MindofShadow]

we are.



hudlin did definitely develop shuri (even though she was in fact the main character at that point and a lot it still revolved around what it meant to be bp) so thats fair but utilizing a character doesnt mean showing depth beyond their interaction to the main character. but I will take your word on these examples because I hsvent read all of the old BP stories.

Exactly with the bolded.

Which is why Coates isn't a great world builder in the main book. I don't give him credit for being lucky enough to have other books to flesh out people. That isnt' writing skill, that's luck lol

[butterflykyss]

Exactly with the bolded.

Which is why Coates isn't a great world builder in the main book. I don't give him credit for being lucky enough to have other books to flesh out people. That isnt' writing skill, that's luck lol

you dont think season 1 and 2 were good world building arcs, aside from the controversial rape camps?

[Cmbmool]

in Priest run T'Challa was friendly to storm and even opened up to her about his fears. He was friendly enough to Tony but Tony always underestimated him as does the entire MU, as Ross stated that's his greatest superpower. T'Challa got a brain aneurysm saving iron fist.

Hudlin had Tchalla even more friendly. Then whole arc with the FF the arc with blade and voodoo? Those were legit team up in which he utilized their skills to the max.

Again how do you think Team ups should work because what Priest and Hudlin did was pretty standard

You aren't even making sense at this point. What are you even arguing?

He had to have a RELATIONSHIP (something ou said BP didn't have under priest and hudlin) with Reed to do him a favor lol....

During Priest run, T'challa said he was spying INITIALLY but later became friends. In the same run, T'challa called Cap his brother. Zuri and Thor was drinking buds. And its a fact T'challa was on the Avengers team for Ultron Forever and Red Zone. Having relationships with the marvel universe....

The FF Thing was more like in the aftermath of Civil War...and that was a mess by itself for the FF overall.

I mean many characters underestimated T'Challa and his actions and that Priest was building him up like this. Trust is a two-way street that rarely run parallel to each other. At least in the terms of T'Challa trusting other Avengers outside of Captain America. Plus, I think he and Tony would often be more at odds with each other given their unique intelligence.

Also I think Hudlin was just having fun with T'Challa's team up in his storylines.

As for Namor....well he is Namor.

[Marvell2100]

you dont think season 1 and 2 were good world building arcs, aside from the controversial rape camps?

I know I don't. The only thing Coates did was add a room to a house that was already built.

I've stated my disdain for his work on numerous occasions so need for further elaboration on my part.