Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[MindofShadow]

https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-rian-j...o-ren-romance/

Director Rian Johnson wanted Rey and Ben to have a romantic relationship.

Did he not see Episodes VII and VIII?

I still don't understand how you don't plan out that trilogy

How can you work across the hall from Feige and just go, "you know what, we are just gonna wing it"

[Marvell2100]

Fixed. Dark-skinned actresses need not apply.

You would be correct.

[Vic Vega]

Yeah, people are far too obsessed with their favourite villains being redeemed.

Kylo killed his own father, nearly killed his own mother and yet people were still hoping for his redemption.

And the whole shipping thing is just "tumblr gone wild". Creators would do well to ignore that shit.

Its Dating Catwoman Syndrome.

If the audience wants to bang the character in question the hero/ine (who is an audience surrogate) has to not want to also but do it (getting to achieve what the audience cannot since movie stars are unattainable for normal people).

This also is what happens when you audience gets used to the idea of side characters being devalued and not mattering at all narratively. Now your main cast either then has no romantic relationships or they are all trying to bang each other even if there's no rational way that should be happening in story.

Draco Malfoy's actor grew up to be attractive so of course Herminone should go for Draco despite that all he does in story is torment her friends and her since the day they all met.

For all her faults, at least JK Rowling had the sense not to listen to her shipper community.

[Marvell2100]

I still don't understand how you don't plan out that trilogy

How can you work across the hall from Feige and just go, "you know what, we are just gonna wing it"

They need to let Favreau and Filoni runs Star Wars entirely.

[Overhazard]

Its Dating Catwoman Syndrome.

If the audience wants to bang the character in question the hero/ine (who is an audience surrogate) has to not want to also but do it (getting to achieve what the audience cannot since movie stars are unattainable for normal people).

This also is what happens when you audience gets used to the idea of side characters being devalued and not mattering at all narratively. Now your main cast either then has no romantic relationships or they are all trying to bang each other even if there's no rational way that should be happening in story.

Draco Malfoy's actor grew up to be attractive so of course Herminone should go for Draco despite that all he does in story is torment her friends and her since the day they all met.

For all her faults, at least JK Rowling had the sense not to listen to her shipper community.

I try not to be too hard on shippers, most of them are kids. Kids who don't know what real relationships are like. Kids who get all their relationship cues from tvtropes, fanfiction, and social media. They just don't know any better. Kylo's a six-foot superpowered incel. The kind of guy that any sane woman would avoid like the devil.

The 30-something shippers on the other hand, I got nothin other than the fact that they really need to go outside.

[OopsIdiditagain]

I try not to be too hard on shippers, most of them are kids. Kids who don't know what real relationships are like. Kids who get all their relationship cues from tvtropes, fanfiction, and social media. They just don't know any better. Kylo's a six-foot superpowered incel. The kind of guy that any sane woman would avoid like the devil.

A lot of male leads in romance novels fit this description but that's a story for another day. People don't give fictional characters the same standards they do for real people.

[godisawesome]

Finn and Poe had more set up than both Reylo and Finn/Rey. As much as some people hate Rose, I wouldn't say their romantic subplot had less set up than Finn/Rey. Finn/Rey were very platonic, I can only see that ship being popular thanks to self-inserting like Reylo.

Eh, I’ve got some minor quibbles here:

- Finn and Poe ain’t set-up any more than Rey and Finn, and both are more set-up than Rey and Kylo by default at the end of TFA.

- Rose’s creation seems dominated by paranoia and fear of Finn being close to Rey, as seen in the way TLJ unfolds, rather than out of interest in either her or Finn as characters, so I’d say Johnson and LFL were afraid of even a platonic connection between Rey and Finn.

Finn expresses attraction towards Rey, they clearly have some physical affection, and a healthy relationship by the time it’s said and done, while Poe is also an affectionate friend to Finn, but neither expresses attraction except maybe by Poe's biting the lip thing... and Finn and Rey are both much higher profile characters with their relationship in higher profile.

While I would agree that the “insert” idea is something I'd agree forms the base of Rey and Finn fans like Rey and Poe fans, I think there’s some important differences with regards to “Reylo:” the “insert” theory for the heroes generally involves liking all character involved and can honestly stem from understanding them and watching the movie.

To like Reylo... you honestly have to ignore pretty much both character’s actual portrayal, the subtext of their scenes, and honestly you can’t care about Rey. Whereas I’d say “FinnRey” and “FinnPoe” fans actually have an investment in both characters, Reylo ends up mostly being infatuated with Adam Driver’s “Dark Side Maybeline commercial” appearance.

I feel like people who reject Rey and Finn because they seem “too sweet” have an understandable bias formed by pop-culture... but if they start ranking Finn and Poe above it with less substance behind why or regard it as equal to Reylo, I start getting suspicions.

https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-rian-j...o-ren-romance/

Director Rian Johnson wanted Rey and Ben to have a romantic relationship.

Did he not see Episodes VII and VIII?

The dude made VIII, and he totally created the entire Reylo thing while forbidding Finn and Rey from sharing any dialogue, shoving a warm body Finn way in a story he didn’t give a damn about besides insisting Finn was “taken” now (why else keep TLJ’s own awkward kiss in the film if he didn’t even really want to write a relationship between them?)

This is just Johnson admitting what people analyzed what they saw in TLJ, where those with tastes were disgusted and those with biases ranging from shallow-but-innocent to blatantly-racist embraced.

[Surf]

Finally got through Judas and the Black Messiah. Admittedly I have a guy crush on Kaluuya cause 1- he's dark and a close 2- dude is cold in everything (I have to sit through Queen and Slim still). He fleshed out Fred Hampton as a man which makes his assassination that much more terrible but to find out he was only 21, a detail I hadn't realized. As a movie it's beautiful for a period piece, one of the more convincing period projects I've seen last decade. You know how some movies are set in the recent past but they still have that current film shine as it were on it. It just looks like everyone dressed up in old clothes and called it a day but this one here has a much more convincing look. I haven't seen much of Shaka King's work, the short Mulignans is on YT but this one is pretty polished for someone who doesn't have but this one major project distributed. The strings that show back up after the meeting with Bell and come to find out, Lil' Rel in that bar, man that was pretty dope.

There are very little comparisons to Van Peebles Panther from the 90's. Panther happened much earlier in the Black Panther Party movement but there are allusions to the levels of overall FBI's involvement here. I don't know what I'm supposed to feel different about William Bell though, I believed he was an asshole rat before and all this did was confirm it. However him talking (and he looks JUST like Lakeith) from his own mouth at the end was fantastic to include. I loved it. You make a movie like this and you know how it ends but to see it shake out on levels you might not be always aware is special.

[CSTowle]

I still don't understand how you don't plan out that trilogy

How can you work across the hall from Feige and just go, "you know what, we are just gonna wing it"

This is one of my biggest problems with this Trilogy. I know there was never a worry they'd do poorly financially, but you'd think with a franchise this valuable you'd want to plan out everything in excruciating detail, from designs of the ships to alien races to I don't know, maybe a consistent and coherent storyline with distinct characters whose personality and goals you can sum up in a sentence. I liked the original trilogy, but it's not like it was super complicated. There are plenty of excellent TV shows with teams of writers that keep storylines interesting and consistent over years. Surely it shouldn't be hard to do with three movies that aren't going to require Oscar-worthy performances out of the actors, especially when you have bottomless pockets and a beloved franchise that an uncountable number of writers/artists/actors would sell their soul to work on?

[Nate Grey]

I remember the hype at the time was 3 movies, 3 different directors. I think it should have been 3 different directors yes but ONE writer. A lot of the new trilogy frankly seems written on the fly with very little cohesiveness.

[Bruce Wayne]

I still don't understand how you don't plan out that trilogy

Because the production for each movie was largely self-contained and they wanted to give the individual directors on the sequel films as much creative latitude as possible. So the story was being constructed as the individual movies were being written. And it seems the directors weren't very aware of each other's plans since Johnson and Abrams ideas of the sequels were contradictory and Abrams tried hard to retcon chunks of Last Jedi. In contrast, Feige for the Star Wars movie that he's producing had a script written first before shopping for a director. The sequels were the opposite, they picked the director first who would hammer out a script based on their ideas and what visual elements/scenes they wanted in the movies.

[Will Evans]

I still don't understand how you don't plan out that trilogy

How can you work across the hall from Feige and just go, "you know what, we are just gonna wing it"

Investors wanted their returns back as soon as possible. So it became 2 years in between movies instead of the standard 3.

Which meant no same director in a row. Also meant less time on the script writing.

However, in hindsight, if they planned it better and had three years in between, Carrie Fisher would have died before filming Episode VIII. And Episode IX would still be in a delayed stage right now due to COVID.


So it might have turned out worse than what we actually got, due to outside factors.

[Username taken]

Finally got through Judas and the Black Messiah. Admittedly I have a guy crush on Kaluuya cause 1- he's dark and a close 2- dude is cold in everything (I have to sit through Queen and Slim still). He fleshed out Fred Hampton as a man which makes his assassination that much more terrible but to find out he was only 21, a detail I hadn't realized. As a movie it's beautiful for a period piece, one of the more convincing period projects I've seen last decade. You know how some movies are set in the recent past but they still have that current film shine as it were on it. It just looks like everyone dressed up in old clothes and called it a day but this one here has a much more convincing look. I haven't seen much of Shaka King's work, the short Mulignans is on YT but this one is pretty polished for someone who doesn't have but this one major project distributed. The strings that show back up after the meeting with Bell and come to find out, Lil' Rel in that bar, man that was pretty dope.

There are very little comparisons to Van Peebles Panther from the 90's. Panther happened much earlier in the Black Panther Party movement but there are allusions to the levels of overall FBI's involvement here. I don't know what I'm supposed to feel different about William Bell though, I believed he was an asshole rat before and all this did was confirm it. However him talking (and he looks JUST like Lakeith) from his own mouth at the end was fantastic to include. I loved it. You make a movie like this and you know how it ends but to see it shake out on levels you might not be always aware is special.

This is one movie I need to watch and soon.

Between Blackkklansman and this, I’m happy that some narratives that were previously buried are now coming out in a big way.

Growing up, all we were told was the Panthers were terrorists and unfortunately the media has run with this narrative when the truth is a lot more complicated.

[Marvell2100]

Finally got through Judas and the Black Messiah. Admittedly I have a guy crush on Kaluuya cause 1- he's dark and a close 2- dude is cold in everything (I have to sit through Queen and Slim still). He fleshed out Fred Hampton as a man which makes his assassination that much more terrible but to find out he was only 21, a detail I hadn't realized. As a movie it's beautiful for a period piece, one of the more convincing period projects I've seen last decade. You know how some movies are set in the recent past but they still have that current film shine as it were on it. It just looks like everyone dressed up in old clothes and called it a day but this one here has a much more convincing look. I haven't seen much of Shaka King's work, the short Mulignans is on YT but this one is pretty polished for someone who doesn't have but this one major project distributed. The strings that show back up after the meeting with Bell and come to find out, Lil' Rel in that bar, man that was pretty dope.

There are very little comparisons to Van Peebles Panther from the 90's. Panther happened much earlier in the Black Panther Party movement but there are allusions to the levels of overall FBI's involvement here. I don't know what I'm supposed to feel different about William Bell though, I believed he was an asshole rat before and all this did was confirm it. However him talking (and he looks JUST like Lakeith) from his own mouth at the end was fantastic to include. I loved it. You make a movie like this and you know how it ends but to see it shake out on levels you might not be always aware is special.

We need more of this.

[Marvell2100]

Investors wanted their returns back as soon as possible. So it became 2 years in between movies instead of the standard 3.

Which meant no same director in a row. Also meant less time on the script writing.

However, in hindsight, if they planned it better and had three years in between, Carrie Fisher would have died before filming Episode VIII. And Episode IX would still be in a delayed stage right now due to COVID.


So it might have turned out worse than what we actually got, due to outside factors.

I thin the problem is that they had no filler between movies. The reason we could afford to wait between Avengers movies is because we had solo movies as fillers to flesh out characters and cover more territory. I don't know if it would have been feasible before hand but if they would have done maybe 2 solo movies each for Rey, Finn and Poe(one between each main movie) then I think the storyline would have had better flow and culminated into one big movie at the end.

They tried to cram a lot of stuff into three movies and dropped a lot of plots to the wayside to cram in even more towards the end. I think Rey, Finn and Poe would have fared better had they had solos to develop them further.

But I don't think they wanted to invest that much into anyone else besides Rey and Ben(maybe Luke a little) and just put Star Wars on a movie, tease a Luke Skywalker appearance and everyone else as there to fill in the rest of the movie.