Minorities in Comics and Other Media, etc

[Will Evans]

I thin the problem is that they had no filler between movies. The reason we could afford to wait between Avengers movies is because we had solo movies as fillers to flesh out characters and cover more territory. I don't know if it would have been feasible before hand but if they would have done maybe 2 solo movies each for Rey, Finn and Poe(one between each main movie) then I think the storyline would have had better flow and culminated into one big movie at the end.

They tried to cram a lot of stuff into three movies and dropped a lot of plots to the wayside to cram in even more towards the end. I think Rey, Finn and Poe would have fared better had they had solos to develop them further.

Whoa my dude!!!!

Avengers is the exception, not the rule.

Not all of cinema is required to be like the MCU to a tee. The MCU really spoiled us to expect that kind of stuff.


Though I could see them having post-trilogy shows on Disney+, if it were planned that way. Or years later, have a Clone Wars Type show to fill in the gaps.

[Marvell2100]

Whoa my dude!!!!

Avengers is the exception, not the rule.

Not all of cinema is required to be like the MCU to a tee. The MCU really spoiled us to expect that kind of stuff.


Though I could see them having post-trilogy shows on Disney+, if it were planned that way. Are years later, have a Clone Wars Type show to fill in the gaps.

Yeah, having Disney+ around at that time could have been beneficial. They didn't have to follow the MCU down to the letter but having a few filler movies wouldn't have hurt. It would have benefitted both Star Wars and the fans. More movies equal more money and more content.

They just put out three movies regardless of plot, motivations and synergy.

[Nate Grey]

Whoa my dude!!!!

Avengers is the exception, not the rule.

Not all of cinema is required to be like the MCU to a tee. The MCU really spoiled us to expect that kind of stuff.


Though I could see them having post-trilogy shows on Disney+, if it were planned that way. Are years later, have a Clone Wars Type show to fill in the gaps.

Isn't there a rumor that Keira Knightly is going to play an older Rey in a post-trilogy Disney+ show?

But regardless I think that's the way to go, too. I'd personally like to see a Finn show where he's training to be a Jedi but...yeah, the way to go.

[godisawesome]

Because the production for each movie was largely self-contained and they wanted to give the individual directors on the sequel films as much creative latitude as possible. So the story was being constructed as the individual movies were being written. And it seems the directors weren't very aware of each other's plans since Johnson and Abrams ideas of the sequels were contradictory and Abrams tried hard to retcon chunks of Last Jedi. In contrast, Feige for the Star Wars movie that he's producing had a script written first before shopping for a director. The sequels were the opposite, they picked the director first who would hammer out a script based on their ideas and what visual elements/scenes they wanted in the movies.

But I don't think they wanted to invest that much into anyone else besides Rey and Ben(maybe Luke a little) and just put Star Wars on a movie, tease a Luke Skywalker appearance and everyone else as there to fill in the rest of the movie.

Understand, this is just my personal pet peeve since I actually really liked TFA and exited that film as a massive Finn fan and happy with Rey, but...

...TLJ retconned TFA first, and just as much of not more than TROS retconned TLJ - and the biggest retcons had to do with Rey and Finn’s characterization, growth, and place in the story, which LFL seemed to quietly try and enforce on TROS.

When TFA was done, Rey was our action girl main hero with steel in her spine, and with Finn as the male lead and her closest companion, with him having fully developed into a motivated opponent of the First Order out of compassion for everyone and not just Rey (came back to Han before Rey was known to be missing), while she developed into an emotionally complex warrior with a deep seated and visceral hatred of the main enemy in Kylo Ren, a disturbed and loathsome monster who had proven himself to at least in some ways be worse than Vader...

...And then TLJ immediately starts extracting Rey’s spine, connection to Finn, her believable hatred of Kylo, and even her role as the main hero since it ceded much of it to Luke and makes the rest part of a parasitic pairing with Kylo, who hogs the focus while Rey only keeps the screentime. TLJ also followed that little shitty act by immediately trying to demote Finn to a supporting character in part by denying and retconning away his character growth in TFA and for the other part by making him more of a comedic figure while it busily tries to portray his connection to Rey as a mistake. It also starts glorifying and fawning over Kylo without actually changing him, making a weird thing where it worships the same character correctly identified as a loathsome monster in the previous one.

Understand, I ain’t denying that TROS didn’t dump some of TLJ’s ideas - but the biggest, with Palpatine replacing Kylo as the main bad, was done on LFL’s orders because they abandoned the villainous side of Kylo as the goal and focused on the male lead idea... which emerged from TLJ, not TFA. Otherwise, a bunch of TROS’s biggest weaknesses come not from trying to be a sequel to TFA, but from trying to honor and pretend like TLJ had good ideas. I mean, Luke’s treatment is far more whip-lash inducing in TLJ than anything in TROS; Johnson took a central plot beat and the main cliffhanger, then took a giant shit on it.

Sorry, I’m just really irritated at all those cowards who wanted to complain about TROS making some changes to TLJ’s story, but were too terrified to admit that TLJ did it first, because it would have required analyzing not just stuff like Luke’s treatment, but also the sexism and racism Johnson injected into what was originally a much more progressive (though far from perfect) story.

[MindofShadow]

Growing up, all we were told was the Panthers were terrorists and unfortunately the media has run with this narrative when the truth is a lot more complicated.

Rosa sat on a bus seat.

MLK great and everyone loved him because he was a noble negro who wanted peace. He single handedly caused the civil rights act! Oh no, hes assassinated!

Malcolm bad and oh no, he assassinated

Black panthers bad.

Okey dokey, got that chapter over with, lets talk the great beloved Reagan in US histry!

[Marvell2100]

https://www.cbr.com/the-mandalorian-...ano-cara-dune/

Cara Dune will be re-cast.

[OopsIdiditagain]

no comment

[ed2962]

no comment

This will be like the third time someone's tried to do live action Constantine.

[Tofali]

https://www.cbr.com/the-mandalorian-...ano-cara-dune/

Cara Dune will be re-cast.

Nope that news was updated there will be no recast

This will be like the third time someone's tried to do live action Constantine.

another form of rejuvenating and increasing marketing reach is by race or gender bending existing IPs

anyway there are going to be a lot of Constantine running around in different shows i guess they need a way to differentiate them

[Agent Z]

I still don't understand how you don't plan out that trilogy

They did plan it out. The problem was the executives changing the plan due to unforeseen circumstances: the firing of Colin Trevorrow, the death of Carrie Fisher, the failure of Solo, the boycotts, the massive TLJ outrage, the bigotry, etc.

Basically, the Sequel Trilogy was hurt more by Disney's attempts to do damage control rather than a lack of a plan.

[Anthony Shaw]

Rosa sat on a bus seat.

MLK great and everyone loved him because he was a noble negro who wanted peace. He single handedly caused the civil rights act! Oh no, hes assassinated!

Malcolm bad and oh no, he assassinated

Black panthers bad.

Okey dokey, got that chapter over with, lets talk the great beloved Reagan in US histry!

Are we gonna include Freeway Rick Ross with the Reagan retrospective?

I'll understand if you just say no.

[Vic Vega]

I remember the hype at the time was 3 movies, 3 different directors. I think it should have been 3 different directors yes but ONE writer. A lot of the new trilogy frankly seems written on the fly with very little cohesiveness.

Yeah I remember this as well.

I think Production got really fixated on the "creative freedom" aspect of the project.

Each movie being part of a whole would still get to be its own thing so no Writer or Director would be constrained by what the last guy did. As long as it plays in the same Star Wars universe and general story progression.

This is the kind of thing writers rooms and creatives eat up like candy. Unfortunately none of these people think like Star Wars fans.

If they did they'd know that was THE VERY LAST THING the fanbase wanted.

There's a reason Marvel movies do so well despite all the crying from detractors about the sameness. The sameness is part of the draw for fandom. If you actually got the world correct first time around, I don't want you changing jack.

To be fair to the sequels, the main reason Rian Johnson's finale wasn't used was very likely because of China. Rian Johnson's script had a street level uprising in Coruscant. I'm sure that looked way too similar to Tiananmen Square for their liking. They will ban anything they don't like in a second and Disney wants that Chinese Box Office money too badly to do anything that they even suspect might piss them off.

TLDR: They were no actual Star Wars fans on the projects so they outsmarted themselves by making the movies they wanted to make as opposed the movies the fans wanted to see.

[MindofShadow]

They did plan it out. The problem was the executives changing the plan due to unforeseen circumstances: the firing of Colin Trevorrow, the death of Carrie Fisher, the failure of Solo, the boycotts, the massive TLJ outrage, the bigotry, etc.

Basically, the Sequel Trilogy was hurt more by Disney's attempts to do damage control rather than a lack of a plan.

There was no continuity between TFA and TLJ. The no planning came well before the last movie.

[godisawesome]

To be fair to the sequels, the main reason Rian Johnson's finale wasn't used was very likely because of China. Rian Johnson's script had a street level uprising in Coruscant. I'm sure that looked way too similar to Tiananmen Square for their liking. They will ban anything they don't like in a second and Disney wants that Chinese Box Office money too badly to do anything that they even suspect might piss them off.

TLDR: They were no actual Star Wars fans on the projects so they outsmarted themselves by making the movies they wanted to make as opposed the movies the fans wanted to see.

Trevorrow’s script had the street riot revolution thing; Johnson didn’t think about anything going forward, likely in the same way Abrams didn’t. They may have had some vague ideas, but each film was totally separated from the brainstorming process of the other - which arguably was the heart of the issue, as you could have kept the creative freedom but had some general spitballing in the same direction, instead of losing track of main characters and themes.

And from interviews with Terio, Kennedy, and others, it sounds like the biggest reason Trevorrow’s script was rejected was because Lucasfilm got cold feet about letting Kylo stay as the main villain when they couldn’t then portrayed the entire film to worship Ben Solo at the same time. And while China was unlikely to like a street protest subplot... they also didn’t care about the other two ST films because they didn’t have the same nostalgia that other countries do.

There was no continuity between TFA and TLJ. The no planning came well before the last movie.

I tend to blame TLJ more than TFA for the generally discombobulated mess that the ST became, but oh yeah, a whole lot of issues came from LFL endorsing Abrams’s whole “Don’t explain anything at the start and don’t plan ahead!” storytelling style. He made so many mystery boxes at the core of the story the next creator pretty much had to answer them and think ahead for him - *I* wouldn’t mind that, but I think you can tell that Johnson resented having a preceding film require answers to questions he himself didn’t ask.

...But the thing that makes me blame Johnson more was that he went above and beyond merely resenting being given mystery boxes, and seems to reject the few core premises Abrams was actually clear with about the main characters. Abrams followed through pretty well on the whole “Sequel Trilogy lead should be a girl!” idea that Lucas and Arndt had originally, and gave John Boyega the male lead role because he earned it in auditions, while making a pretty compellingly loathsome (and shockingly topical!) badguy in Kylo Ren.

So much of TLK seems dead set on trying to take a story that was about “Rey, with her friend Finn, against Kylo!” and instead make it about “Kylo with Rey, and also there’s Finn well away from them!”

Talk about trashy.

[Username taken]

Yeah I remember this as well.

I think Production got really fixated on the "creative freedom" aspect of the project.

Each movie being part of a whole would still get to be its own thing so no Writer or Director would be constrained by what the last guy did. As long as it plays in the same Star Wars universe and general story progression.

This is the kind of thing writers rooms and creatives eat up like candy. Unfortunately none of these people think like Star Wars fans.

If they did they'd know that was THE VERY LAST THING the fanbase wanted.

There's a reason Marvel movies do so well despite all the crying from detractors about the sameness. The sameness is part of the draw for fandom. If you actually got the world correct first time around, I don't want you changing jack.

To be fair to the sequels, the main reason Rian Johnson's finale wasn't used was very likely because of China. Rian Johnson's script had a street level uprising in Coruscant. I'm sure that looked way too similar to Tiananmen Square for their liking. They will ban anything they don't like in a second and Disney wants that Chinese Box Office money too badly to do anything that they even suspect might piss them off.

TLDR: They were no actual Star Wars fans on the projects so they outsmarted themselves by making the movies they wanted to make as opposed the movies the fans wanted to see.

Exactly this.

Sometimes, there's nothing wrong will simply fulfilling expectations.

If you're going to subvert expectations, it shouldn't be at the expense of the narrative.