Ororo Munroe: Storm Appreciation 2019

[Marvell2100]

It's not an argument in that we actually agree. I can see those things but what i'm trying to get across is it's important given the status change of mutants now being owned by marvel to atleast drop a panel here or there to address the issue so there is some actual backup when the potential collide occurs. Something that people can hold onto and say "Wait, hold up in issue 15 he mentioned trying to find a way to cure the cloud." That's literally all i'm saying and it is true. Look how the inhumans ended up because they didn't do the same.

Look at it this way, when a writer decides to stop pushing unnecessary drama and writing characters in strictly black and white, we will see change. When the X-Men save the world, they save humans too. When the Avengers save the world they save mutants as well.

I mentioned in an earlier post how it seems plain dumb that in a world of Avengers, Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, Inhumans etc, that nearly every human hates mutants, builds machines to kill mutants and ignores every other super-powered person on the planet. Then you isolate the humans and mutants to make relations even more hostile.

I know the narrative of the X-Men but how long can they keep making every human a mutant-hating dumbass in a world of gods, monsters and Celestials.

In order for this to make any sense, the X-Men need to be in a separate universe altogether without any other super-heroes/super-humans.

[jwatson]

Look at it this way, when a writer decides to stop pushing unnecessary drama and writing characters in strictly black and white, we will see change. When the X-Men save the world, they save humans too. When the Avengers save the world they save mutants as well.

I mentioned in an earlier post how it seems plain dumb that in a world of Avengers, Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, Inhumans etc, that nearly every human hates mutants, builds machines to kill mutants and ignores every other super-powered person on the planet. Then you isolate the humans and mutants to make relations even more hostile.

I know the narrative of the X-Men but how long can they keep making every human a mutant-hating dumbass in a world of gods, monsters and Celestials.

In order for this to make any sense, the X-Men need to be in a separate universe altogether without any other super-heroes/super-humans.

It makes sense to me in the sense that i'm a black american and some people hate me despite us all being human simply because i'm black. Now imagine if i had super powers. If only one race of humans, one that was already treated a certain way were given super powers. The hate would definitely be next nevel. I see it as humans feel they can be spiderman or the fantastic four because it may be one in a million chance but you can still potentially become one. With mutants it's something you have to be born with, something that others may feel make you special or more important than them rather than just something a little different than them and imo that is where the true hate lies in the situation. But i do think the x-line needs to go back to showing more supportive humans in the books like it did once upon a time.

I think for me the difference with the saving the world is yes Avengers save the world when it is in danger and as a result save mutants but when a number of humans are in danger they show up but the same can't be said for mutants in trouble.

I think Hickman with his story in HOX or POX have given humans a perfect out or way to change things with the Dominion A.I life form he created. What of some higher ups know that if a certain amount of mutants being born would cause the earth to collapse in on itself or attract a dominion and it isn't so much that EVERYONE is targeting mutants but some who are in the know are trying to keep numbers culled to save the universe. Still not right but more interesting imo and makes it a lot harder to say it's wrong.

[Marvell2100]

It makes sense to me in the sense that i'm a black american and some people hate me despite us all being human simply because i'm black. Now imagine if i had super powers. If only one race of humans, one that was already treated a certain way were given super powers. The hate would definitely be next nevel. I see it as humans feel they can be spiderman or the fantastic four because it may be one in a million chance but you can still potentially become one. With mutants it's something you have to be born with, something that others may feel make you special or more important than them rather than just something a little different than them and imo that is where the true hate lies in the situation. But i do think the x-line needs to go back to showing more supportive humans in the books like it did once upon a time.

I think for me the difference with the saving the world is yes Avengers save the world when it is in danger and as a result save mutants but when a number of humans are in danger they show up but the same can't be said for mutants in trouble.

I think Hickman with his story in HOX or POX have given humans a perfect out or way to change things with the Dominion A.I life form he created. What of some higher ups know that if a certain amount of mutants being born would cause the earth to collapse in on itself or attract a dominion and it isn't so much that EVERYONE is targeting mutants but some who are in the know are trying to keep numbers culled to save the universe. Still not right but more interesting imo and makes it a lot harder to say it's wrong.

I'm a black male as well. It doesn't make sense to me because in real life, I now that there are people who don't like me for me skin color.

But I also know that I have friends of all races, religions and sexual orientations. I have relatives that are LGTBQ, who are in interracial relationships, who have different religious beliefs than me.

The current X-Men mantra seems to declare that every human is a mutant racist. That insults me as a reader.

[jwatson]

I'm a black male as well. It doesn't make sense to me because in real life, I now that there are people who don't like me for me skin color.

But I also know that I have friends of all races, religions and sexual orientations. I have relatives that are LGTBQ, who are in interracial relationships, who have different religious beliefs than me.

The current X-Men mantra seems to declare that every human is a mutant racist. That insults me as a reader.

See i don't read it that way but i definitely see your point. The humans going after the x-men are bad people but we have seen many times good cops, good people who stood by mutants and did the right thing so it doesn't insult me in that sense but i can definitely see it. For instance i personally have never run into a truly racist situation. I can say i'm lucky as a black man that that has happened but another person might have seen some and then another might have seen nothing but, given their circumstance, location, etc. But i as well sincerely miss the days of having a few human allies or a few voices that stand up. But at the same time i can't ignore what was put on the x-franchise due to outside politics of the company that produces them. Magneto had Briar helping him in his book. IN Xtreme X-men and other runs storm always had humans that supported her. But in the collective marvel universe i just find it so hard to believe that not one other book ever truly addresses the mutant cause just to say they did. That in of itself adds to the inuniverse feel that if these heroes don't care it's not hard to believe the regular humans don't either. It has definitely gotten worse and i hope it gets better again. Both sides do need representation and no man or race is an island. We wouldn't be where we are today if not for the good white people and other races that helped us secure our freedoms.

[terrancejameson]

Im not getting that deep in the effects of black love etc and what that perspective offers because while i don't think anything is wrong with it and love it when it works, it shouldn't been an expectation just because a character is a black man or woman. We definitely need more examples of it, but i wouldn't hold this format to being beholden to it in the same ways i would others.

As for Tchalla again all that was connected to Storm. Cassandra was a threat to him in X-men red because he sent Storm to Wakanda, as such in a way he needed to help because his people were in danger. Also Jean is Storm's best friend, i am sure tchalla knows this. In the grand scheme of things he has done things for individual mutants and in his case i stand by sending billions of dollars is the least he can do. How much would it cost for a defense as such storm offered.

He was no where during the mists story and no where during decimation but he was front and center when it came to taking them down when it came to A vs. X. I stand by if coates wants this to work long term he needs to get in front of this optic. And again, Storm has still done more for him AND his people than he has done for he and hers in universe. That is a fact which i don't really need or care to debate to be honest cause i'm talking on paper not let me stretch my mind to reach the point of mutual support.

And i'm not sure what any of this has to do with X-men pushing non-black mutants which is a question in diversity of the overall comic market itself rather than X-men and it has nothing to do with the premise of the Tchalla/Ororo relationship other to add weight to blacks should be with blacks which i don't agree with so it's pointless to discuss for me as it's not going to change your opinion or mine.

I'll give you your point about the really big things happening and T'Challa was nowhere in sight. Its true. No one can deny it. He needs to show up in a big way when the going gets tough. Coates has already pissed off most of the hardcore fans. He should just go for broke and insert T'Challa right in the middle of an X-Men event in a very meaningful way. Just dive right in if he means to show T'Challa is down for every bit of her. I can definitely agree with that. I can't argue with any of that. Those things should realistically happen if he loves her the way he says he does. I will never attempt to change your mind or anyone else's. You are entitled to your beliefs and I never meant to come across dismissive to you or anyone else in that way. My only intent is to express my opinion to the best of my ability on a given scenario.

With that said, I do feel the need to further explain my meaning of black love in regards to the X-Men as I see it. When I say I want black love representation in the X-books that means I want more love for black mutants in general. Hickman managed to make Goldballs relevant, Monet and Storm are both front and center to the narrative. I personally want more. I want more black mutant representation and I don't apologize for it. We are in the time of Krakoa. Mutants have their own text and language. They are no longer seeking assimilation. They're forcing the dominant culture to recognize them. How is that any different from Hip-Hop culture vs mainstream culture? Mainstream culture has rules that say Hip-Hop is cool up to a certain extent. Then you have to keep it professional. The thing is everyone embraces Hip-Hop culture now more than ever. Its everywhere. Hip-Hop culture is not synonymous with Hip-Hop music. Only a fool would say Hip-Hop or Hip-Hop culture is only for black people. It's all inclusive, but we know who started it. Any messages you inferred about excluding certain mutants rather than elevating the black mutant experience is entirely on you. And if I might add, that makes me quite sad.

Once Krakoa culture really gets up and going I assume that subcultures will naturally arise. Its only human nature imo. I could honestly be wrong tho. But you're wrong to inject YOUR feelings of (black people should only be with other black people) "black love" into anything I've said. I believe a form of black love is bringing more black people into the world. Yes I believe that. I also believe black people have enough to deal with than having other black people tell them how they should live. I believe in embracing black people everywhere. It's one of the reasons to don't do the cancel culture. And I challenge myself to unlearn negative stereotypes about black people. I never once said or implied that black people need to date, marry and commit to black people only. Black people should be allowed to love who and what they love. I just want to enjoy the experience. I wanna cheer them on. I'm Issa Rae and I'm rooting for everybody black.

In the case of Storm and the other black X-Men that are just coming into the narrative in a meaningful way, again, it's great. I admire the effort. I'm supporting HOX/POX because they're exciting reads. That doesn't mean that more work isnt needed. Before this point Storm was the only black mutant getting any LOVE from the X-books. What a LOVE that was... Monet was background decoration and the black males were nonexistent. If the X-books can't be bothered to love black mutants and black male mutants specifically, then I would think at least Storm of Kenya would have love for black males. If even she can't provide love for or show affection to black males in the X-books then there really is no hope for black male advocacy. Outside of her solo projects can you name the last 3 black males that Storm has shown a modicum of affection for in the X-books? I can come up with three that she came to blows with and emphasized how terrible black males can be. Her Uncle, Maruda and the African Warlord from Xenogenisis all were terrible men. Where are the positive examples of black males to balance those out? Where are the OTHER black male allies of the mutants that you want T'Challa to be?

[Marvell2100]

See i don't read it that way but i definitely see your point. The humans going after the x-men are bad people but we have seen many times good cops, good people who stood by mutants and did the right thing so it doesn't insult me in that sense but i can definitely see it. For instance i personally have never run into a truly racist situation. I can say i'm lucky as a black man that that has happened but another person might have seen some and then another might have seen nothing but, given their circumstance, location, etc. But i as well sincerely miss the days of having a few human allies or a few voices that stand up. But at the same time i can't ignore what was put on the x-franchise due to outside politics of the company that produces them. Magneto had Briar helping him in his book. IN Xtreme X-men and other runs storm always had humans that supported her. But in the collective marvel universe i just find it so hard to believe that not one other book ever truly addresses the mutant cause just to say they did. That in of itself adds to the inuniverse feel that if these heroes don't care it's not hard to believe the regular humans do. It has definitely gotten worse and i hope it gets better again. Both sides do need representation and no man or race is an island. We wouldn't be where we are today if not for the good white people and other races that helped us secure our freedoms.

Yes, we did and that's what so weird about what's going on now. The X-Men used to have human friends, there were humans that stood up for mutants.

Stevie
Tom Corsi
The cop from God Loves, Man Kills.
The Lebanese guy that stood up for Kitty.
Moira(now mutant. wtf.)
The mayor of San Francisco plus a few more I'm forgetting.

It was these moments that were heart-warming, that give you hope.

But for the past 10-20 years, we haven't seen that. They only thing they give is despair.

[jwatson]

Yes, we did and that's what so weird about what's going on now. The X-Men used to have human friends, there were humans that stood up for mutants.

Stevie
Tom Corsi
The cop from God Loves, Man Kills.
The Lebanese guy that stood up for Kitty.
Moira(now mutant. wtf.)
The mayor of San Francisco plus a few more I'm forgetting.

It was these moments that were heart-warming, that give you hope.

But for the past 10-20 years, we haven't seen that. They only thing they give is despair.

And sadly i think thats what marvel was going for and for me i feel this is a new era and im willing to give the universe a chance. If i step back and go okay i can't say there was a conspiracy and then not give that same leeway to those outside of the X-line. If the X-line has a foot on it's throat it's fair to say that other books were told don't mention the x-men or mutants and don't give them any press. And that was also evident by going out of their way to demutant Wanda and Pietro to use them in outside comics. Obviously they still had the right to use them in movies but why change it in comics unless you didn't want that word seen in your other books. But in this new age, all i'm saying is i would like to see Coates get in front of this so it isn't an issue. So it's not the same cycle when it doesn't have to be. The fact that he is heavily using Storm in my opinion makes it one of the best places to do so. Imagine the x-books might not have mentioned him, but in one story you had beast there or you were going around saving a mutant or talking about the problem, boom, you just became different than everyone else in the universe and now the conversation started. He doesn't have to be behind Karoka but if I was coates and using storm i would have been like "Oh so wakanda don't need no mutant drugs. ok, now here's why." a panel or two to react to it and no one can say much, we have our answer.

[jwatson]

I'll give you your point about the really big things happening and T'Challa was nowhere in sight. Its true. No one can deny it. He needs to show up in a big way when the going gets tough. Coates has already pissed off most of the hardcore fans. He should just go for broke and insert T'Challa right in the middle of an X-Men event in a very meaningful way. Just dive right in if he means to show T'Challa is down for every bit of her. I can definitely agree with that. I can't argue with any of that. Those things should realistically happen if he loves her the way he says he does. I will never attempt to change your mind or anyone else's. You are entitled to your beliefs and I never meant to come across dismissive to you or anyone else in that way. My only intent is to express my opinion to the best of my ability on a given scenario.

With that said, I do feel the need to further explain my meaning of black love in regards to the X-Men as I see it. When I say I want black love representation in the X-books that means I want more love for black mutants in general. Hickman managed to make Goldballs relevant, Monet and Storm are both front and center to the narrative. I personally want more. I want more black mutant representation and I don't apologize for it. We are in the time of Krakoa. Mutants have their own text and language. They are no longer seeking assimilation. They're forcing the dominant culture to recognize them. How is that any different from Hip-Hop culture vs mainstream culture? Mainstream culture has rules that say Hip-Hop is cool up to a certain extent. Then you have to keep it professional. The thing is everyone embraces Hip-Hop culture now more than ever. Its everywhere. Hip-Hop culture is not synonymous with Hip-Hop music. Only a fool would say Hip-Hop or Hip-Hop culture is only for black people. It's all inclusive, but we know who started it. Any messages you inferred about excluding certain mutants rather than elevating the black mutant experience is entirely on you. And if I might add, that makes me quite sad.

Once Krakoa culture really gets up and going I assume that subcultures will naturally arise. Its only human nature imo. I could honestly be wrong tho. But you're wrong to inject YOUR feelings of (black people should only be with other black people) "black love" into anything I've said. I believe a form of black love is bringing more black people into the world. Yes I believe that. I also believe black people have enough to deal with than having other black people tell them how they should live. I believe in embracing black people everywhere. It's one of the reasons to don't do the cancel culture. And I challenge myself to unlearn negative stereotypes about black people. I never once said or implied that black people need to date, marry and commit to black people only. Black people should be allowed to love who and what they love. I just want to enjoy the experience. I wanna cheer them on. I'm Issa Rae and I'm rooting for everybody black.

In the case of Storm and the other black X-Men that are just coming into the narrative in a meaningful way, again, it's great. I admire the effort. I'm supporting HOX/POX because they're exciting reads. That doesn't mean that more work isnt needed. Before this point Storm was the only black mutant getting any LOVE from the X-books. What a LOVE that was... Monet was background decoration and the black males were nonexistent. If the X-books can't be bothered to love black mutants and black male mutants specifically, then I would think at least Storm of Kenya would have love for black males. If even she can't provide love for or show affection to black males in the X-books then there really is no hope for black male advocacy. Outside of her solo projects can you name the last 3 black males that Storm has shown a modicum of affection for in the X-books? I can come up with three that she came to blows with and emphasized how terrible black males can be. Her Uncle, Maruda and the African Warlord from Xenogenisis all were terrible men. Where are the positive examples of black males to balance those out? Where are the OTHER black male allies of the mutants that you want T'Challa to be?

Shes not with those other men so i don't see your point on that.

As far as black love i thought you meant the coupling so thats on my understanding or lack thereof but you mean diversity in general which i agree there needs to be more of but i still don't see what that has to do with the topic of Storm/Tchalla and the mutant situation being addressed or lack thereof in his book where she appears and is apart of her.

[Ororo101]

Hey!!! I'm a person of my word.

Let me give you some background on my thoughts about Storm and BP. I was a very strong supporter of the marriage. I though this was sucha great idea and I felt for sure that they would be the new power couple in the MU.

Four corners:
Reed/Sue
Black Bolt/Medusa
Scott/Emma
Storm/T'Challa

Imagine a Marvel U with that scenario. The political intrigue, the tension, the fun. I thought this would be on ongoing thing for years. Didn't turn out that way. Too much bad isht happened(AvX). Some of us kept fighting and fighting for them to be together and more bad isht kept happening. Marvel screwed it up big time, so some of us just let it go.

So now, Storm and T'Challa are back together again. In his book. Little to no acknowledgement of this in any of the other X-books and whenever they did go there, they frakked up. Sp you can see why some of us are tired of the drama. If they're gonna do it then just frakking do it. Make them a full couple, no innuendo, no teasing just come out and tell the rest of the MU and fans they are together.

I'll be the first to admit I took sides(T'Challa) and put a lot of heavy isht on Storm. I was totally wrong. Storm didn't write herself and neither did T'Challa. The blame lies at the feet of the writers who don't know how to write a strong couple/relationship and at Marvel for letting this crap happen. I had to let that isht go and start liking Storm all over again.

Now, I stopped reading the X-Men a long time ago because of a lack of minority representation and the tendency to kill, depower, limit, maim or limbo the minority characters they did have. And then the notion of a world where all humans were hating mutants while cheering for the FF and other non-mutant heroes stopped making sense for me. So I let it go.

Right now, Storm is marginalized. She should either lead the X-Men(or an X-team) or take a different path for her and other mutants. If they really don't have plans for her, just let her go. I would love for her to be in BP permanently, be an Avenger, do something different, other than languishing while they keep digging up more kids for the Summers ad Wolverine.

I've read X-books from the 80s to the early 2000s on a regular basis. I know what Storm is capable of and what kind of character she is. I just wish Marvel would get their isht together and do something with great with her. either in the X-books or somewhere else.

What do you think?

This was great. Thank you for commenting on all of that and welcome! I’d love it if our boards could actually interact more and civilly so because we really do have a lot that we can talk about if we got down to it and let the petty stuff go. I apologize for my part in that but tbh there are just certain posters over there who I feel see my Storm icon and immediately take it upon themselves to invalidate what I’m saying because of it or just flat out “talk around me” and other Storm fans i.e “anyway, moving on” and “did y’all hear summ?” type of responses I’ve gotten in the past. So I hope you know that I dont mean to rile things up in there, it just brings out the pretty within myself at times lmao. But anyway! Haha moving on, it’s good to have you here and I would love if you commented whenever you had interest to.

As far as those four cornerstones that you mentioned, I for one would love that. All 8 of them are such icons of the Marvel Universe and represent all of the major groups therein. So I can see why you were so hopeful in the beginning as I was too. Then just as you said the writing started going immediately downhill until the point of AvX came around and we were so exhausted and so divided at that point, it might as well have ripped our fandoms down the middle. And then into disarray for years afterwords on both sides regarding the pairing. So seeing Coates bring it back and actually make it seem like he wanted to do it and so it WELL this time gave me hope. I knew the just needed a good writer, preferably of color to understand their unique perspectives as black superheroes, to take the time to invest in them and their future together. Little did I know, I didn’t know what I was asking for lol. Coates as a writer has some great concepts as far as stories go. You can truly tell he’s a great storyteller as his imagination and world building has been impressive, even though not all agree with the changes he’s made. His main issues to me are his pacing and the tone of his T’challa. Which is really unfortunate because he has some really interesting ideas and with a little more tension introduced, this could be more than a good bit a great run.

Although the mutant/minority metaphor is something makes sense/resonates with me, I do agree with you on all of the other points though. It’s been a rough 10 years or so with the X-men as a minority Storm fan. This is best case scenario but I’d like to think that most of these writers in recent years who... couldn’t “relate” to her character... as well as previous ones just didn’t know what to do with her after the divorce so they just put on the lightning lass show for years to come. It was a long, dark time and there were a lot of books I didn’t support in protest. Finally however in recent storylines as of this year I feel a return to prominence for Storm and a return to relevancy in regards to the X-men in general. House of X has solidified for me that big changes are on the way and I honestly couldn’t be happier to see what’s next. It feels like new life has been breathed into the X-men, in more ways than one, and for the first time in recent memory I anxiously await a book every week. It’s been so fun. I hope it lasts into DoX but we shall have to wait and see.

I am however glad that you’ve given Storm another chance as it mirrors the second chance I decided to give T’challa a few years back. I won’t lie and say that there a time that I was bitter and angry with his character and may or may not have called him Catman out of spite lol. But I realized, just as you, that these great characters can’t be blamed for lazy and uninspired writing. Seeing his success and popularity surge after BP came out made me so happy because that was the character I had fallen in love with and that was the man that was a worthy partner for Storm, and the rest of the world finally got to see it! If they ever do move forward with their relationship into the MCU I hope and pray desperately that they do it right and as epic as they would deserve. That would/could be such a momentous and iconic event for black comic book fans the world over and Marvel fans in general! Picture that wedding on the big screen with Wakanda and Storm at their full splendor. I wish the best for both of these characters no matter what. Even if, sadly, that means they may not be together forever.

[Cville]

Because
1: The X-men for the past decade has been garbage.
2: The Family-interest dynamic was created for, played up, and followed in, BP under Hudlin. Circa their marriage...with very little connectivity with the X-Books at the time (because she wasn't a big player/influence/presence in the X-books)
3: The X-Men and BP under many different writers have had entirely different story/character trajectories.

All that is to say...the character "discrepancies" are understandable. It's only fan-expectation that make them seemingly intolerable.

During the marriage years Tchalla and Wolverine went from rivals to having mutual respect. Had the marriage continued, there could have been a solid team up mini series.

[Ororo101]

Look at it this way, when a writer decides to stop pushing unnecessary drama and writing characters in strictly black and white, we will see change. When the X-Men save the world, they save humans too. When the Avengers save the world they save mutants as well.

I mentioned in an earlier post how it seems plain dumb that in a world of Avengers, Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, Inhumans etc, that nearly every human hates mutants, builds machines to kill mutants and ignores every other super-powered person on the planet. Then you isolate the humans and mutants to make relations even more hostile.

I know the narrative of the X-Men but how long can they keep making every human a mutant-hating dumbass in a world of gods, monsters and Celestials.

In order for this to make any sense, the X-Men need to be in a separate universe altogether without any other super-heroes/super-humans.

Idk if this helps at all but to me it’s the fact that they can be born of humans that causes this undo fear on the humans part. People who get their powers from spider bites, and space radiation, and other external sources are fine because they’re just “freaks” or “supes” of chance to them. They are regular people who happened to go through an external event and come out stronger/with powers. They are an underdog of sorts who you root for because they were once a “normal” person who made the best out of their situation. Mutant powers/“defects” come from within. That in and of itself is where the fear starts for humans because these people are born “different” from “normal” people and it seems like more and more are being born every day. It’s a biological fear, deep within humans of being replaced by their own progeny. Of being cursed with one of these “freak children” as opposed the little Bobby and Susie you wanted as parents. Also of envy on some deep, subconscious level of not being born “special” too. So you hate. You hate what’s different. You hate what threatens to alter your way/perception of life. You hate what makes you feel innately “less than”. Just like in the real world people hate and fear what they don’t understand. It’s the same hate that causes parents to discard there own children when they build of the courage to come out to them. The same fear that causes a policeman to shoot a black man without proper cause. It’s irrational and nonsensical yes. But to me that’s exactly why it is relatable.

[terrancejameson]

Shes not with those other men so i don't see your point on that.

As far as black love i thought you meant the coupling so thats on my understanding or lack thereof but you mean diversity in general which i agree there needs to be more of but i still don't see what that has to do with the topic of Storm/Tchalla and the mutant situation being addressed or lack thereof in his book where she appears and is apart of her.

I feel it's due to your entire misunderstanding of my talking points. While I agree that while he can always do more, he's done enough for me personally that I feel it's a safe enough bet to say that he doesn't harbor anti-mutant sentiment. It doesn't stand up to reasoning to me is all. He was willing to offer safe haven despite the threat that Cassandra posed to Wakanda. The mutants did the heroic thing by trying to place the least amount of people in danger as possible. He still offered even though it was very dangerous for his people.

You and many others so desperately want black love to mean that Storm is poppin out black babies for her black kang, but you miss the point there as well. I noticed that everytime you brought up black love and immediately jumped to beyonce/jay-z. That's perplexing. Black platonic or familial love never occured to you. Storm is seen coddling Bishop instead of holding him accountable for his actions. That's not real love. Storm has two black males available to her that are pretty much obligated to love her unconditionally. Do those stories not happen because they're not with Storm romantically or because messages of black love aren't high on the Krakao Council of 12's agenda? As far as where he stands on mutant issues as they pertain to her and mutants at large I've already agreed with you there. I'm not sure how much more you wanted there.

[Marvell2100]

Idk if this helps at all but to me it’s the fact that they can be born of humans that causes this undo fear on the humans part. People who get their powers from spider bites, and space radiation, and other external sources are fine because they’re just “freaks” or “supes” of chance to them. They are regular people who happened to go through an external event and come out stronger/with powers. They are an underdog of sorts who you root for because they were once a “normal” person who made the best out of their situation. Mutant powers/“defects” come from within. That in and of itself is where the fear starts for humans because these people are born “different” from “normal” people and it seems like more and more are being born every day. It’s a biological fear, deep within humans of being replaced by their own progeny. Of being cursed with one of these “freak children” as opposed the little Bobby and Susie you wanted as parents. Also of envy on some deep, subconscious level of not being born “special” too. So you hate. You hate what’s different. You hate what threatens to alter your way/perception of life. You hate what makes you feel innately “less than”. Just like in the real world people hate and fear what they don’t understand. It’s the same hate that causes parents to discard there own children when they build of the courage to come out to them. The same fear that causes a policeman to shoot a black man without proper cause. It’s irrational and nonsensical yes. But to me that’s exactly why it is relatable.

Fair point. But there are couples who have children born with all kinds of medical issues, from autism to rare cancers and diseases and they still love these children. There are couples who adopt these children even with these issues.

And there are parents who love their children no matter their identity

This is my problem with the "every human hates mutants" diatribe currently in the X-Men and their problems with showing a fair balance.

And now we have a mutant nation selling drugs to other countries to be popular. I did not see that one coming.

[GuiltyPleasure]

This is about writers, the stories they want to tell, and the perspective they chose to take. Every character is an extension of the person writing them. If X-writers, for whatever reason, choose not to integrate Ororo's romantic relationship into their stories, that is not a reflection on the T'Challa character. It's insensible to make that kind of leap in logic. If Coates decides to include Ororo in his BP mythos, as he's done the last two or so years, that is his decision as the writer whose been allowed to reunite the characters. Coates is obviously the writer who has been charged with leading/grounding/developing the relationship. Where else would he do that but between the pages of BP? If there was a Storm comic, that writer would have that forum to explore their relationship too, as well as other parts of the character.

At best, X-writers should acknowledge their relationship because it is a current part of canon. What they shouldn't do is use their books to create situations between the two that Coates must deal with in BP. The same is true for Coates. See, unless the X-writers and Coates are truly collaborating, which I do not believe they are, they cannot easily delve into each other's storylines without the risk of creating issues another writer will either have to address or choose to ignore, thus muddying the waters.

See, without true collaboration, less is actually more. So no, T'Challa (Coates) may not say much about Krakoa in his comic because to do so could create story issues for Hickman. Does that mean T'Challa doesn't give a shit about mutants, Ororo's feelings, or is unsupportive of her interests? Of course not. What it means is that writers have to respect other writers' ability to tell the story they want to tell without being hampered by or derailed by other writers.

X-writers did that during their marriage, contradicting what Hudlin wrote in BP. That shouldn't happen, yet it was allowed to. I think everyone is being much more cautious and cognizant of such dynamics now. Ideally, it would be great if there was a greater connection with Ororo's appearance in all of the books she's in. The reality however, is that it is probably a lot harder to make that work with different authors than we as readers think. Her depiction, however, in one comic does not negate or minimize her portrayal in another simply because it isn't openly recognized across the board the way some people believe it should be.

Anyway, that's my two cents. This isn't a character issue but a writers and collaboration issue.

[Marvell2100]

Precisely, this is about writers, the stories they want to tell, and the perspective they chose to take. Every character is an extension of the person writing them. If X-writers, for whatever reason, choose not to integrate Ororo's romantic relationship into their stories, that is not a reflection on the T'Challa character. It's insensible to make that kind of leap in logic. If Coates decides to include Ororo in his BP mythos, as he's done the last two or so years, that is his decision as the writer whose been allowed to reunite the characters. Coates is obviously the writer who has been charged with leading/grounding/developing the relationship. Where else would he do that but between the pages of BP? If there was a Storm comic, that writer would have that forum to explore their relationship too, as well as other parts of the character.

At best, X-writers should acknowledge their relationship because it is a current part of canon. What they shouldn't do is use their books to create situations between the two that Coates must deal with in BP. The same is true for Coates. See, unless the X-writers and Coates are truly collaborating, which I do not believe they are, they cannot easily delve into each other's storylines without the risk of creating issues another writer will either have to address or choose to ignore, thus muddying the waters.

See, without true collaboration, less is actually more. So no, T'Challa (Coates) may not say much about Krakoa in his comic because to do so could create story issues for Hickman. Does that mean T'Challa doesn't give a shit about mutants, Ororo's feelings, or is unsupportive of her interests? Of course not. What it means is that writers have to respect other writers' ability to tell the story they want to tell without being hampered by or derailed by other writers.

X-writers did that during their marriage, contradicting what Hudlin wrote in BP. That shouldn't happen, yet it was allowed to. I think everyone is being much more cautious and cognizant of such dynamics now. Ideally, it would be great if there was a greater connection with Ororo's appearance in all of the books she's in. The reality however, is that it is probably a lot harder to make that work with different authors than we as readers think. Her depiction, however, in one comic does not negate or minimize her portrayal in another simply because it isn't openly recognized across the board the way some people believe it should be.

Anyway, that's my two cents. This isn't a character issue but a writers and collaboration issue.

I think you summed it up pretty good here.