Ororo Munroe: Storm Appreciation 2019

[butterflykyss]

Nah, the best thing about Tennessee is that it's not Kentucky.

lmfao... oh no lolol.. no comment

[butterflykyss]

I don't know of any scans, but I found their Wiki page. Lines up with the Demigure story pretty well.

The Heliopolitans were worshipped as deities by the inhabitants of the Nile River Valley from as early as 10,000 BC. According to Heliopolitan legend, the first of these were Gaea (as Neith), the Demiurge (as Nun), and Set. Neith and Nun sired Atum, the first of the Ogdoad — the old gods. As Neith went about creating mortal life, Set desired to destroy her creations. In turn, Neith called Atum for protection. Atum and Set fought for eons until Atum transformed into the Demogorge and drove Set off. After Set's defeat, Atum begot the Ennaed — the new gods, took the name Ra and settled in the sun.[8]

The Ennead resided in the ancient city of Heliopolis until their king Osiris placed mortal pharaohs in charge so that the gods could become less involved with human affairs and relocated themselves to the extradimensional realm of Celestial Heliopolis. A few, including Bast, Sobek, and Sekhmet, choose to remain on Earth. Bast would eventually become the patron deity of Wakanda, while Sobek and Sekhmet became patrons of less influential African cults.[8]

In Celestial Heliopolis, Seth murdered his brother Osiris in an attempted coup but Osiris' wife Isis, and his sons Horus and Anubis combined their powers to resurrect Osiris. Osiris then dispatched Horus to exact revenge on Seth in a battle that lasted for several hundred years, ending when Seth gained the upper hand and sealed the gods in a pyramid.[8] The trapped gods remained in the pyramid for several millennia until they managed to reach out to the Asgardian god Odin. With help from Odin's son, Thor, they defeated Seth, severing his left hand as they battled, and freed the Heliopolitans.[9]

but I'm not understanding how this canonically speaking ties to bast. like where is this explored within the actual comics? wikis are cool but they dont really carry weight in the world of canon. I may have to do a lit of digging. i do, however, like the idea of the gods putting forth mortal men to take their place

[terrancejameson]

Not the same thing. Emma was turned into a straight-up mentally unstable villain/antihero for a couple years. Is that to be emulated? Would we like Ororo to spend a few years attempting to brainwash the teenage version of her ex into loving her a la Frost? I vote no. Different approaches are applicable for different characters. (And that's not to say what was done to Emma was good, because it wasn't, but it would never even be considered to handle Ororo like that, as a villain)



Ororo is not Namor.

[deleting all the debate about whether Ororo is in character supporting Krakoa which is two different opinions and while an interesting topic, not relevant to this discussion]



Okay - but if we both agree she doesn't need to leave a mutant team, why are we arguing the idea that she could be off a mutant team? For what purpose?



LOL I have no grand love for Israel so I definitely don't, no.



There you go again, trying to attribute. I absolutely never said that and don't believe that, so no, you can take it for a spin if you want to but as it pertains to me it's incorrect. I think she can have both her current Krakoan focus and an intersectional perspective. I don't have to engage with a false choice of 'Storm anti-Krakoa' or 'Storm not on the X-Men' to see and believe in 'Storm the intersectional mutant.' If you see it that way that's fine, but I don't.

Speaking of Storm/Krakoa, though, let's circle back above:



No? You seemed to be pretty down with it in posts two weeks ago when she last appeared. You said you "loved the voice captured for Storm" in HoX #5. What changed?

In fact, this confused me because I remember your posts, so I went back and looked just now and I have more:



I'm confused! Am I missing some nuance here, because you sound a lot like me.

I likened Ororo and Emma’s removal from the team setting, because they were both editorially mandated. Not that they were both handled in the same ways, but both women went through periods where they weren’t active X-Men members. Despite Emma being turned into a mad woman, she was still dedicated to mutant issues outside of the X-men TEAM SETTING. My simple argument is that other than the editorial mandate giving us dry excuses about what creative team she belonged to, the X-men writers could have made a few references to Storm making things happen for mutants on a political front. Emma got that treatment, Storm didn’t.

Ororo isn’t Namor. However, this Storm is also supposed to be the same woman that’s appearing in Black Panther and Fearless. Both of those titles feature other mutants, but they are not mutant only zones. Storm is there and she flourishes as usual. She’s there as heroine and inspiration to all. And she doesn’t just focus on mutant issues. Which as evidence of both the council of 12 and the list of protected omega level mutants, it highlights that the mutant focus is one of white mutant supremacy.

I mentioned her time away from the team because you referenced the editorial mandate to write her out of the books. Better reasoning could have been given for her absence. It wasn’t. That’s what I’m emphasizing. Emma’s time away from the team made her a better mutant advocate. Editorial made that work for her character. The same energy was not used for Ororo.

The mutant nation of Krakoa resides in parts of other countries. You plant a seed and you have a portal. That’s literally encroaching upon other people’s land and calling it your own. Magneto calls mutants new gods and they are offering up a new world. They’re offering mutants culture, language and amnesty. They’re doling out justice to mutants as they see fit. I think comparisons to Israel are appropriate. Especially considering the leaders of Krakoa sent a special ops team to spy and retrieve sensitive information from a rival government then had the nerve to step in and take the suspects and the information they stole back into mutant custody.

I never made any distinction about whether Storm needs to be anti Krakoa or not part of the X-men. My gripes rest solely with the cohesion of her life outside of the team. If she’s down with Krakoa that’s fine, but if she’s not that’s ok too. The cohesion needs to be spot on. This Ororo that is all “mutant nation first. be damned with all of humanity” needs to be make sense when we read her in Fearless and Black Panther. Storm loves mutants. Absolutely she does. She’s not only a mutant, though. Her motives need to reflect the enormous celebrity that shows up to an all girls summer camp and the Wakandan village of Alkama. Her narrative in the X-men hasn’t been fleshed out enough to say that all this is the same woman from Fearless and BP. That’s what I’m saying.

My post from weeks ago is in reference to her embracing the mutants that were reborn after their epic mission. Storm has personal connections with each of them. Of course I’d champion that. She is welcoming those mutants that hold a special place in her heart. That absolutely is a step in the right direction to making her sound like a woman that has some agency. That was the context behind that post. I trust you can reread it correctly and understand that that’s the bare minimum of what a competent writer should be able to do with the history she has with those specific individuals. Nothing changed. I expect the bar to be raised. Why don’t you?

We may sound alike in our approach to cheering along the weather witch of the X-men. When it comes to our outlook on what it means for the celebrity in Fearless and the Hadari Yao of Wakanda to meet Storm of the X-men and morph in spectacular fashion to make the woman that casts a shadow so large across the MU that Kelly Ann DeConnick had to reference her three times in order to explain just how awesome she thought Carol was by comparison, you and I couldn’t be any more different. It is what it is. I love you tho.

[Cville]

but I'm not understanding how this canonically speaking ties to bast. like where is this explored within the actual comics? wikis are cool but they dont really carry weight in the world of canon. I may have to do a lit of digging. i do, however, like the idea of the gods putting forth mortal men to take their place

Looks like its part of 2009s Marvel Encyclopedia.

Jump up to: a b c Anthony Flamini, Greg Pak, Fred Van Lente & Paul Cornell (w), Kevin Sharpe (p), Kevin Sharpe (i). Thor & Hercules: Encyclopaedia Mythologica 1 (July 2009), Marvel Comics

[butterflykyss]

Looks like its part of 2009s Marvel Encyclopedia.

Jump up to: a b c Anthony Flamini, Greg Pak, Fred Van Lente & Paul Cornell (w), Kevin Sharpe (p), Kevin Sharpe (i). Thor & Hercules: Encyclopaedia Mythologica 1 (July 2009), Marvel Comics

ok yea I'm not saying that it's not there but it doesnt appear that there was anything previous to Coates canonically putting any meat to their creation which is why you either have to conclude that these wakandan gods are from something entirely different or that the men of wakandan who were already worshipped as gods became actual one by way of Demiurge.

[Marvell2100]

lmfao... oh no lolol.. no comment

People talk about scary movies all the time but the scariest movie I ever saw was Deliverance.

I will never drive through Kentucky.

[MoneySpider]

Apparently the new CEO of Warner Bros. wanted to make a "Storm" feature film while she was still working at Fox Studios, but she was told "no". Hopefully Marvel Studios will make "Storm" into a movie franchise.

[stormphoenix]

Apparently the new CEO of Warner Bros. wanted to make a "Storm" feature film while she was still working at Fox Studios, but she was told "no". Hopefully Marvel Studios will make "Storm" into a movie franchise.

They will. Once Storm appears in Black Panther 2 there will be a GREAT Outcry for a Storm Movie and Solo Series...................Watch.

[Cville]

ok yea I'm not saying that it's not there but it doesnt appear that there was anything previous to Coates canonically putting any meat to their creation which is why you either have to conclude that these wakandan gods are from something entirely different or that the men of wakandan who were already worshipped as gods became actual one by way of Demiurge.

An official Marvel Encyclopedia isn't cannon?

[butterflykyss]

I likened Ororo and Emma’s removal from the team setting, because they were both editorially mandated. Not that they were both handled in the same ways, but both women went through periods where they weren’t active X-Men members. Despite Emma being turned into a mad woman, she was still dedicated to mutant issues outside of the X-men TEAM SETTING. My simple argument is that other than the editorial mandate giving us dry excuses about what creative team she belonged to, the X-men writers could have made a few references to Storm making things happen for mutants on a political front. Emma got that treatment, Storm didn’t.

Ororo isn’t Namor. However, this Storm is also supposed to be the same woman that’s appearing in Black Panther and Fearless. Both of those titles feature other mutants, but they are not mutant only zones. Storm is there and she flourishes as usual. She’s there as heroine and inspiration to all. And she doesn’t just focus on mutant issues. Which as evidence of both the council of 12 and the list of protected omega level mutants, it highlights that the mutant focus is one of white mutant supremacy.

I mentioned her time away from the team because you referenced the editorial mandate to write her out of the books. Better reasoning could have been given for her absence. It wasn’t. That’s what I’m emphasizing. Emma’s time away from the team made her a better mutant advocate. Editorial made that work for her character. The same energy was not used for Ororo.

The mutant nation of Krakoa resides in parts of other countries. You plant a seed and you have a portal. That’s literally encroaching upon other people’s land and calling it your own. Magneto calls mutants new gods and they are offering up a new world. They’re offering mutants culture, language and amnesty. They’re doling out justice to mutants as they see fit. I think comparisons to Israel are appropriate. Especially considering the leaders of Krakoa sent a special ops team to spy and retrieve sensitive information from a rival government then had the nerve to step in and take the suspects and the information they stole back into mutant custody.

I never made any distinction about whether Storm needs to be anti Krakoa or not part of the X-men. My gripes rest solely with the cohesion of her life outside of the team. If she’s down with Krakoa that’s fine, but if she’s not that’s ok too. The cohesion needs to be spot on. This Ororo that is all “mutant nation first. be damned with all of humanity” needs to be make sense when we read her in Fearless and Black Panther. Storm loves mutants. Absolutely she does. She’s not only a mutant, though. Her motives need to reflect the enormous celebrity that shows up to an all girls summer camp and the Wakandan village of Alkama. Her narrative in the X-men hasn’t been fleshed out enough to say that all this is the same woman from Fearless and BP. That’s what I’m saying.

My post from weeks ago is in reference to her embracing the mutants that were reborn after their epic mission. Storm has personal connections with each of them. Of course I’d champion that. She is welcoming those mutants that hold a special place in her heart. That absolutely is a step in the right direction to making her sound like a woman that has some agency. That was the context behind that post. I trust you can reread it correctly and understand that that’s the bare minimum of what a competent writer should be able to do with the history she has with those specific individuals. Nothing changed. I expect the bar to be raised. Why don’t you?

We may sound alike in our approach to cheering along the weather witch of the X-men. When it comes to our outlook on what it means for the celebrity in Fearless and the Hadari Yao of Wakanda to meet Storm of the X-men and morph in spectacular fashion to make the woman that casts a shadow so large across the MU that Kelly Ann DeConnick had to reference her three times in order to explain just how awesome she thought Carol was by comparison, you and I couldn’t be any more different. It is what it is. I love you tho.

all of this was divine. your point about fearless and black panther is why I believe that something is off with Ororo. I dont believe that this woman who has fought tirelessly for mutants and humans alike would all of the sudden be with "down with all humans" narrative. Both those personalities cannot be true. This is why I am hoping we get further clarification. Maybe ororo is there to make sure things dont go too far right or maybe there is some sort of mind control. Either way something doesnt ring true and I'm hopeful Hickman addresses this as of now I'm getting a bit of OOC vibes. She isnt just a mutant, she is a daughter of two humans, a black woman, a protector of nation mostly populated by humans as their goddess, and a hero. All of those things would not allow for her loyalties to simply lie with the mutant cause. If anything, I would think the tragedies that have happened to black people would make her self identify first to their cause but I'm sure if we ever got a story like that she would be charged as a racist but identifying only for mutants is ok, right???


Oh and again great post beloved!

[butterflykyss]

An official Marvel Encyclopedia isn't cannon?

I wouldnt site marvel encyclopedia over an actual comicbook. a lot of times they can be missing information just like the wikis do at time but that is just me.

[butterflykyss]

People talk about scary movies all the time but the scariest movie I ever saw was Deliverance.

I will never drive through Kentucky.

I've never seen that movie but I will take your word. I have no reason to ever go there

Apparently the new CEO of Warner Bros. wanted to make a "Storm" feature film while she was still working at Fox Studios, but she was told "no". Hopefully Marvel Studios will make "Storm" into a movie franchise.

and I wonder why the fox studios said no??? yet they wanted to give kitty one??? good riddance!!

[Marvell2100]

This is what happens when your brain waves are stored in a computer and then downloaded into your new clone body.

NuYou doesn't remember what OldYu said and did, so now she is spouting off isht that OldYu didn't say, now Oldyu is mad at NuYou for saying isht that OldYu wouldn't be caught dead(well, in limbo between resurrections) saying.

Bit here is an even more profound question:

If NuYou and OldYu ever fought, would OldYu kick NuYou's ass because OldYu has more experience or would NuYou wipe the floor with OldYu because NuYou is younger?

See, a whole Nu can of worms has been opened.

[Shreene]

People talk about scary movies all the time but the scariest movie I ever saw was Deliverance.

I will never drive through Kentucky.

I take it you've never seen the movie -- "Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things", huh?

[terrancejameson]

all of this was divine. your point about fearless and black panther is why I believe that something is off with Ororo. I dont believe that this woman who has fought tirelessly for mutants and humans alike would all of the sudden be with "down with all humans" narrative. Both those personalities cannot be true. This is why I am hoping we get further clarification. Maybe ororo is there to make sure things dont go too far right or maybe there is some sort of mind control. Either way something doesnt ring true and I'm hopeful Hickman addresses this as of now I'm getting a bit of OOC vibes. She isnt just a mutant, she is a daughter of two humans, a black woman, a protector of nation mostly populated by humans as their goddess, and a hero. All of those things would not allow for her loyalties to simply lie with the mutant cause. If anything, I would think the tragedies that have happened to black people would make her self identify first to their cause but I'm sure if we ever got a story like that she would be charged as a racist but identifying only for mutants is ok, right???


Oh and again great post beloved!

Lol thank you, my friend. I operate under the idea that Ororo was already living Charles’ dream before he came to recruit her. He really had nothing to teach her in THAT regard. Even as a little girl growing up with two different street urchin groups Ororo always wanted to be part of the group. She wanted to be amongst the people. Helping is just in her nature. She didn’t know it, but she was in a way seeking her own sense of balance. Worlds Apart showed that she was ready to step into a new sense of self. Ellis tried to add some spice to her narrative by having her acknowledge Africa in a big way. He even took care to have the team around her acknowledge that she was the most logical point person to go in. Sadly, that narrative wasn’t pushed further. That was her time.

Then came her solo Pak tried to push it again, but in a fresh new way. She was saving communities that looked like her and the community embraced her. It was beautifully done imo. It showed the power she carries. It shows the communities she touches that don’t quite get the recognition they deserve. The best part about Pak’s solo that just occurred to me is that his story directly informs Storm’s narrative in BP&C. Given her trajectory under Pak, Storm’s relationship with Harlem only makes sense. Storm really is known in the street and they better put respeck on her name. It’s so bitter sweet because the X-men narrative as a team don’t allow for that voice to be heard. This go along to get along Storm must have deeper motivations beside just drinking the kool-aid. If she’s there doing her own investigation and weighing the risks vs the rewards then that’s what her narrative needs to reflect. The readers need to see those words come out of her mouth.