Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[MindofShadow]

TJ, just being in a book isn't characterization. Tell me anything significant that Eden has done.

Fall for Shuri.... off panel and then in another book he didn't write lol

strip him of what made him unique (aborignal australian) to make him just another NY black dude essentially

That's all ive got in 4 years and 2 books lol

[terrancejameson]

I believe they mean in the X franchise. Tchalla doesnt show up in X stories to help Storm unless the plot takes place in Wakanda, most recent being X-Red. Which except for her costume, might as well never have happened at this point. Based on current events.

I know what they were in reference to. There were also mentions of T'Challa never actively shown pushing for mutant rights. Naturally, I pushed back at that notion with the fact that T'Challa has been actively shown with TWO black mutants in close proximity and on great significance to him. It was even suggested that Coates use his story to get ahead of any mess the X-books could potentially along their way. I piggybacked off of that saying he should dive right in and place T'Challa and Wakanda st the center of it. Hickman had Storm acknowledge her possessions and other homes outside of Krakoa. Here Coates has Ororo acknowledge Wakanda as HER nation. She has claimed him like never before. In doing so, she's claimed all of who she is in relation to the man she loves.

[Cville]

I know what they were in reference to. There were also mentions of T'Challa never actively shown pushing for mutant rights. Naturally, I pushed back at that notion with the fact that T'Challa has been actively shown with TWO black mutants in close proximity and on great significance to him. It was even suggested that Coates use his story to get ahead of any mess the X-books could potentially along their way. I piggybacked off of that saying he should dive right in and place T'Challa and Wakanda st the center of it. Hickman had Storm acknowledge her possessions and other homes outside of Krakoa. Here Coates has Ororo acknowledge Wakanda as HER nation. She has claimed him like never before. In doing so, she's claimed all of who she is in relation to the man she loves.

I might be misremembering, but this thread talks about the X franchise not reciprocating when BP promotes Storm. The mutant rights issues I believe take place on the Storm thread

Because I'm pretty sure that the normal posters here back Gentle not being mistreated because he is a mutant.

[Marvell2100]

I might be misremembering, but this thread talks about the X franchise not reciprocating when BP promotes Storm. The mutant rights issues I believe take place on the Storm thread

Because I'm pretty sure that the normal posters here back Gentle not being mistreated because he is a mutant.

Plus we don't want him being mistreated in the X-books because he's a Black male mutant.

[Marvell2100]

Fall for Shuri.... off panel and then in another book he didn't write lol

strip him of what made him unique (aborignal australian) to make him just another NY black dude essentially

That's all ive got in 4 years and 2 books lol

So…. nothing going on for Eden. I guess he's right there next to his mentor.

[Mr MajestiK]

I have. His entire run (plus their stint on the F4) is in a bin beneath my bed.


They have been shown in a loving conversation with one another. They have expressed their feelings to each other on the page. Many of the complaints in this thread were about T'Challa pining over Ororo like a sad puppy. Many wondered where was the reciprocity. It came in this issue. It came from Storm's mouth to a woman that shared a deep level of intimacy with a man they both have deep love and understanding for.

Call me crazy, but I seem to recall many claiming that T'Challa never shows up for her not too long ago. Apparently she was shown always in Wakanda protecting his people and their nation, but some wanted to see how he was going to show up for her in major way. What's changed?

I can't say that I've met the love of my life. I haven't even hit my thirties yet, so I still have time. All I know is the person that steals my heart will definitely have some special qualities. Not sure why that's a negative thing , but okay.

I think I have to clarify more of my meaning. I don't expect you or anyone else to see things as I see them or agree with me. I would think that in order for us to come to a better understanding of one another would at least need to understand fundamental things that inform our individual logic. That seems like a given and actually cuts to the heart of debate. You have your individuality and I have mine. You don't need to feel shamed into liking anything, that's never been my intention. I ask questions to better get to the root of a disagreement I may have. Just because we disagree on a few story beats does not make you my enemy. If you got that from any of my posts then I truly apologize.

I'm also sorry that you feel you need to look at a book in terms of what it's doing for the community. That's part of the appeal for me tho. I can't lie. I don't expect you to make it your cross to bear. It's the same reason I'm currently enjoying Hickman's X-Men. The implications it holds are rich. The same holds true for me with Black Panther. I'm reading and enjoying Coates' work and I have to admit that I don't see the deconstructed black Male that you speak of. I just don't. For every instance or negative portrayal you or anyone else could point out I can contrast it with another scene of his.

I personally don't have to look at the other black males besides T'Challa in order to see a positive a positive portrayal of them and ultimately myself. T'Challa is more than black man enough for me. The others don't escape my notice tho. They inform the sense of community along with all the strong and beautiful women. Community matters to me because its what made black wall street possible and black folks have lost that in America. Most are too busy moving out of the community instead of building it up.

The main issue we disagree on is how T'Challa has been disrespected as a character. I don't see it. I don't agree with and I probably never will. He's still the man in which everything in Wakanda revolves around. I champion that. It excites me and I enjoy reading it.

One thing I've always liked about Black Panther Appreciation threads is the fact that they've always been a sounding board for myriad topics of discussion and perception.

We all have our own individual perceptions of T'Challa and the attendant BP mythos and filter same through interpretations of different creative teams approaches to depicting said titular character and his aforementioned mythos.

Having said that, there is nothing in Coates entire BP run to date, that indicates that this writer has anything but utter contempt for T'Challa as a purposefully dynamic character or, Wakanda as an incredible example of succesful Afrofuturism given form on paper.

Under Coayes pen, Wakanda was depicted as a dysfunctional society wracked by 8nternal strife, rape camps and rampant criminality presided over by a witless King allegedly so distracted by his sisters seeming demise, that ye was unable to focus on his nation crumbling all around him.

The fact that the above presented scenario presented by Coates, completely flew in the face of where Jonathan Hickman left T'Challa and Wakanda at the end of his Secret Wars II saga cannot and should not be overlooked if one is genuinely invested in engaging in honest discourse on this subject.

Hickman had T'Challa and Wakanda on the verge of leading the entire planet back to meaningful exploration of the stars which was what Al Ewing picked upon at the beginning of his The Ultimates book wherein Wakanda was depicted as the technologically advanced powerhouse it had always been with T'Challa portrayed as a King and leader quite sure of himself and confident in posture and mannerisms.

Coates chose to ignore what Hickman had established and Ewing acknowledged and then went on to depict a Wakanda in complete and utter decline complete with a "king" in name only who relied on the advice of foreign despots to devise means to put down "insurrection" amongst his own people.

If this is the type of T'Challa that appeals to you as a reader, that is of course, your prerogative, but for myself and more than a few others posting here and around the world, we don't have time for milquetoast portrayals of our favoured character and his more than able, core supporting cast.

And speaking of "core supporting cast" I am most definitely not including Storm or Eden as I for one, do not perceive either one of these characters as being beneficial to the BP mythos in any way, size or form especially as written by Coates and utilised as a means to further diminish and subvert the BP mythos in its entirety.

[Mr MajestiK]

I know what they were in reference to. There were also mentions of T'Challa never actively shown pushing for mutant rights. Naturally, I pushed back at that notion with the fact that T'Challa has been actively shown with TWO black mutants in close proximity and on great significance to him. It was even suggested that Coates use his story to get ahead of any mess the X-books could potentially along their way. I piggybacked off of that saying he should dive right in and place T'Challa and Wakanda st the center of it. Hickman had Storm acknowledge her possessions and other homes outside of Krakoa. Here Coates has Ororo acknowledge Wakanda as HER nation. She has claimed him like never before. In doing so, she's claimed all of who she is in relation to the man she loves.

In the aftermath of AvX, Storm should have no place in the BP mythos point blank period.

Post Reginald Hudlin, the X-writers have used Storm as a means to denigrate T'Challa personally as well as portray Wakanda as an enemy state where mutant affairs are concerned.

And now under Coates pen, we actually have the totally disrespectful spectacle of Wakandans praying to Storm in T'Challa's supposed solo book to such a degree that she's inexplicably elevated to an "actual goddess" level that's acknowledged nowhere outside of the aforementioned Black Panther solo book in name only.

The sooner Coates and his favoured imported characters are jettisoned from this book, the better.

[Marvell2100]

One thing I've always liked about Black Panther Appreciation threads is the fact that they've always been a sounding board for myriad topics of discussion and perception.

We all have our own individual perceptions of T'Challa and the attendant BP mythos and filter same through interpretations of different creative teams approaches to depicting said titular character and his aforementioned mythos.

Having said that, there is nothing in Coates entire BP run to date, that indicates that this writer has anything but utter contempt for T'Challa as a purposefully dynamic character or, Wakanda as an incredible example of succesful Afrofuturism given form on paper.

Under Coayes pen, Wakanda was depicted as a dysfunctional society wracked by 8nternal strife, rape camps and rampant criminality presided over by a witless King allegedly so distracted by his sisters seeming demise, that ye was unable to focus on his nation crumbling all around him.

The fact that the above presented scenario presented by Coates, completely flew in the face of where Jonathan Hickman left T'Challa and Wakanda at the end of his Secret Wars II saga cannot and should not be overlooked if one is genuinely invested in engaging in honest discourse on this subject.

Hickman had T'Challa and Wakanda on the verge of leading the entire planet back to meaningful exploration of the stars which was what Al Ewing picked upon at the beginning of his The Ultimates book wherein Wakanda was depicted as the technologically advanced powerhouse it had always been with T'Challa portrayed as a King and leader quite sure of himself and confident in posture and mannerisms.

Coates chose to ignore what Hickman had established and Ewing acknowledged and then went on to depict a Wakanda in complete and utter decline complete with a "king" in name only who relied on the advice of foreign despots to devise means to put down "insurrection" amongst his own people.

If this is the type of T'Challa that appeals to you as a reader, that is of course, your prerogative, but for myself and more than a few others posting here and around the world, we don't have time for milquetoast portrayals of our favoured character and his more than able, core supporting cast.

And speaking of "core supporting cast" I am most definitely not including Storm or Eden as I for one, do not perceive either one of these characters as being beneficial to the BP mythos in any way, size or form especially as written by Coates and utilised as a means to further diminish and subvert the BP mythos in its entirety.

BCB, you summed up the points we've made since Coates run began. Everyone kept saying how "woke" Coates was. Honestly that doesn't mean isht to me when it comes to writing BP.

Coates wrote Wakanda like a Third World country and decided to bring democracy to a nation that he frakked up.

He then ignores the dumb isht he set up to do more dumb isht and fraks up a Wakandan sci-fi/space story.

Unbelievable.

[Mr MajestiK]

BCB, you summed up the points we've made since Coates run began. Everyone kept saying how "woke" Coates was. Honestly that doesn't mean isht to me when it comes to writing BP.

Coates wrote Wakanda like a Third World country and decided to bring democracy to a nation that he frakked up.

He then ignores the dumb isht he set up to do more dumb isht and fraks up a Wakandan sci-fi/space story.

Unbelievable.

Unfortunately, it's all very believable.

Ta Nehisi Coates was given carte blanche over the BP solo book just off of the strength of his pedigree as a supposedly "woke" literary figure of note.

Marvel wishing to capitalise on Coates reputation, allowed him to craft his take on the BP mythos and this coupled with this publishing companies well documented, inability to maintain editorial and continuity based cohesion between interconnected titles and storylines is what ultimately enabled Coates to foist his backwards thinking and wholly implausible nonsense upon the BP mythos.

Coates whole literary approach to writing is based and founded upon the eternal "victimhood of the black experience" withnlittle or no room or allowance made for for the brighter rays of sunshine that the fictional nation of Wakanda brings to the narrative experience.

Coates comments dating back to his original interview he had with the Atlantic before he even started writing the BP solo, clearly illustrated just how deliberately obtuse and clueless he was where T'Challa and Wakanda were concerned which is why as MoS pointed out in previous posts, I was the first poster in these threads to unilaterally reject Coates take on T'Challa, from the get go.

Now, how many seasons later, we are presented with a T'Challa firmly rooted within a milquetoast quagmire Coates has him wallowing within even as other writers continue to pen T'Challa as the compelling protagonist he actually is in The Avengers and Agents Of Wakanda.

[FLEX HECTIC]

The Late Great Stan "The Man" Lee called us all "True Believers"


The writer of Black Panther is an "architect" that has to truly believe in something beyond himself to build successfully with this character...





Note: The depiction of any sci-fi character is often a self portrait of the creator/writer/artist themselves moving forward in time and space!


Black Panther: "You gotta believe something... Why not believe in me?"

[skyvolt2000]

Plus we don't want him being mistreated in the X-books because he's a Black male mutant.

Or Wakanda being shown to be mean and cruel to outsiders.

Which would be HYPOCRITICAL since Shuri is Black Panther's STEP sister and her mother is his STEP mother as his father remarried after his mother died.

If folks don't like Gentle-how does Shuri get a free pass?

Or Ms Marvel's boyfriend-who went to school in Wakanda?

Two memos the X-Office missed.

[KingNomarch]

Shuri's his half sister

[butterflykyss]

https://www.campaignlive.com/article...ostume/1664529

[XPac]

Or Wakanda being shown to be mean and cruel to outsiders.

Which would be HYPOCRITICAL since Shuri is Black Panther's STEP sister and her mother is his STEP mother as his father remarried after his mother died.

If folks don't like Gentle-how does Shuri get a free pass?

Or Ms Marvel's boyfriend-who went to school in Wakanda?

Two memos the X-Office missed.

It's almost not entirely fair to compare Shuri's life to Gentles though. When you're the daughter of the freaking king, you'll get a lot more pass's than some random nobody kid. If anyone does have issues with Shuri, they're probably smart enough to keep their mouths shut about it.

But yeah... it's true that there is a history of acceptance with outsides in Wakanda too. Like any other place, it's probably fair to assume there's no hive mind. Some people will be more tolerant than others. Gentles experience was probably just an isolated thing.

[Mr MajestiK]

It's almost not entirely fair to compare Shuri's life to Gentles though. When you're the daughter of the freaking king, you'll get a lot more pass's than some random nobody kid. If anyone does have issues with Shuri, they're probably smart enough to keep their mouths shut about it.

But yeah... it's true that there is a history of acceptance with outsides in Wakanda too. Like any other place, it's probably fair to assume there's no hive mind. Some people will be more tolerant than others. Gentles experience was probably just an isolated thing.

Gentles supposed rejection was orchestrated by the X-office as he was created by an X-writer and summarily used as a literary Trojan horse to push a wholly false narrative of Wakanda supposedly being anti-mutant.