Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Ezyo1000]

Hill
Kibblesmith
Walker
Saladin

interesting picks. What made you choose those? Hill is really interesting to me considering from a emotional side, he did well on killmonger, but ultimately imo let the ball drop by not showing us why killmonger was more then just a angry black man.

[Cville]

interesting picks. What made you choose those? Hill is really interesting to me considering from a emotional side, he did well on killmonger, but ultimately imo let the ball drop by not showing us why killmonger was more then just a angry black man.

Most of the books Hill writes are good. Sometimes he can slowdown too much in the middle of a story, but he's a solid writer. Killmoger is an angry character. I don't think he has an arc that doesn't involve him hating Tchalla for almost irrational reasons.

Kibblesmith wrote BP vs DP, so I'd give him a try at a solo.

I like everything Walker has done except for the first arc of the Luke Cage solo.

Saladin is doing "comic of the year" work with Miles. He has a way of writing human stories with heart that doesn't feel like preaching. His writing of the dynamic of Miles, Jeff, and Aaron have been great these past few months. I'd like to see what he can do with Tchalla, Shuri, Hunter and Ramonda.

[Ezyo1000]

Most of the books Hill writes are good. Sometimes he can slowdown too much in the middle of a story, but he's a solid writer. Killmoger is an angry character. I don't think he has an arc that doesn't involve him hating Tchalla for almost irrational reasons.

Kibblesmith wrote BP vs DP, so I'd give him a try at a solo.

I like everything Walker has done except for the first arc of the Luke Cage solo.

Saladin is doing "comic of the year" work with Miles. He has a way of writing human stories with heart that doesn't feel like preaching. His writing of the dynamic of Miles, Jeff, and Aaron have been great these past few months. I'd like to see what he can do with Tchalla, Shuri, Hunter and Ramonda.

I guess I have limited exposure to those writer's. Yes killmonger is an angry character but he isn't an idiot hothead that only survived and got to face T'Challa by sheer dumb luck. I mean we had killmonger chumped for bulleyes and kingpin. Dude is smart, maybe not T'Challa level super genius but he is highly intelligent.

Story felt like it doesn't too much time on inexperienced killmonger without showing the potential of him something that makes the characters in the story go " Dude this guy is seriously dangerous and will accomplish big things if he survives" we didn't get that. The ending was weird. Like unnecessary petty trolling of the knight Character.

But again from the Character emotional side it was good. I dunno I would have to see how he did a short story first before I would be sold on him for T'Challa

[Cville]

I guess I have limited exposure to those writer's. Yes killmonger is an angry character but he isn't an idiot hothead that only survived and got to face T'Challa by sheer dumb luck. I mean we had killmonger chumped for bulleyes and kingpin. Dude is smart, maybe not T'Challa level super genius but he is highly intelligent.

Story felt like it doesn't too much time on inexperienced killmonger without showing the potential of him something that makes the characters in the story go " Dude this guy is seriously dangerous and will accomplish big things if he survives" we didn't get that. The ending was weird. Like unnecessary petty trolling of the knight Character.

But again from the Character emotional side it was good. I dunno I would have to see how he did a short story first before I would be sold on him for T'Challa

But there is no story that this happens for Killmonger. He someone who has potential to beat Tchalla in a fight. That's it. I think asking Hill to hype the character to new levels, but knowing that he never goes that high in his future is too much. Even in Priest, becoming BP was dumb luck. Hes a cool character, but at most hes "Beast of no Nation" threat level. Maybe with the symbiote hell get up to a Doom/Apocalypse/Thanos level threat, but if the story takes place before he returned to Wakanda the first time, I dont think much from him should be expected.

[FLEX HECTIC]

My list is...


1. Redjack

2. Redjack

3. Redjack

4. Redjack

5. Redjack's pet dog


Make it happen Santa Claus!

[Ezyo1000]

But there is no story that this happens for Killmonger. He someone who has potential to beat Tchalla in a fight. That's it. I think asking Hill to hype the character to new levels, but knowing that he never goes that high in his future is too much. Even in Priest, becoming BP was dumb luck. Hes a cool character, but at most hes "Beast of no Nation" threat level. Maybe with the symbiote hell get up to a Doom/Apocalypse/Thanos level threat, but if the story takes place before he returned to Wakanda the first time, I dont think much from him should be expected.

I see this as a cop out TBH. No he's not a doom/apocalypse/Thanos level threat. But he should be on par with Deathstroke. This is the guy who beats T'Challa and hos backstory is that he acts seemingly like an idiot and only survived by pure dumb luck, yet when it came time to face T'Challa, a man who's trained his entire life in combat and facing the unknown, all of a sudden, Erik outfights him? Yet dude almost got killed by bullseye??

Again this was Hill's Chance to really dive in and show just how dangerous Erik truly is. Before he gets his enhancements, showing that when it came to killing/combat, it came easy for him. Even before he experimented on himself, his anger he constantly felt drove him to be seemingly reckless but it was calculated, every move planned.

Again the characters in the story should of been like "Yo this dude is legit scary, i pity anybody that gets in the way of his goals"

It felt like a disservice. It would be like if T'Challas introduced to to the MU was taken down the FF, then squaring off against the Avengers, taking down iron Man,
Karnak, iron fist etc etc then when it comes time for him to finally get a origin story of how he came to be such a badass, we get panthers rage, where regular people are kicking his ass snf old ladies are splitting his scalp with cans of beans. Make you go wtf THIS is the same guy??

[Cville]

I see this as a cop out TBH. No he's not a doom/apocalypse/Thanos level threat. But he should be on par with Deathstroke. This is the guy who beats T'Challa and hos backstory is that he acts seemingly like an idiot and only survived by pure dumb luck, yet when it came time to face T'Challa, a man who's trained his entire life in combat and facing the unknown, all of a sudden, Erik outfights him? Yet dude almost got killed by bullseye??

Again this was Hill's Chance to really dive in and show just how dangerous Erik truly is. Before he gets his enhancements, showing that when it came to killing/combat, it came easy for him. Even before he experimented on himself, his anger he constantly felt drove him to be seemingly reckless but it was calculated, every move planned.

Again the characters in the story should of been like "Yo this dude is legit scary, i pity anybody that gets in the way of his goals"

It felt like a disservice. It would be like if T'Challas introduced to to the MU was taken down the FF, then squaring off against the Avengers, taking down iron Man,
Karnak, iron fist etc etc then when it comes time for him to finally get a origin story of how he came to be such a badass, we get panthers rage, where regular people are kicking his ass snf old ladies are splitting his scalp with cans of beans. Make you go wtf THIS is the same guy??

Deathstroke has superhuman enchantments.

Why would he be super dangerous before his enhancements. If he was that badass, he wouldn't need them to begin with. So if the story thake place before his enhancements and hes just a normal human being, below bullseye who has an superhuman talent makes sense.

[chief12d]

The way I look at it T’Challa at that age (and without enhancements) wouldn’t have been so easily overwhelmed by Bullseye. Sure he’s a top tier assassin but if T’Challa was suddenly attacked by him while he was surrounded by several low powered mutants I expect him to put up more of a fight using his tactical and martial arts skills. The fact that Killmonger and his team were utterly defeated doesn’t do anything to demonstrate why readers should be impressed with his growth trajectory. If anything it demonstrates that he wasn’t a capable threat before he got his enhancements, which doesn’t bode well as T’Challas greatest enemy.

I vaguely remember Hill saying in an interview or in the comic that he had the opportunity to reinforce the image of KM from the movie or go against the grain and tell a more down to earth story. Like Coates, rather than taking the setup provided by Coogler to chart out a new badass direction he willingly chose to put the BP mythos in a position where it didn’t shine nearly as brightly as it could’ve. It was still well written for what it was but I’m not sure Hill is the writer to unabashedly depict T’Challa as a top tier character within the MU.

[Cville]

The way I look at it T’Challa at that age (and without enhancements) wouldn’t have been so easily overwhelmed by Bullseye. Sure he’s a top tier assassin but if T’Challa was suddenly attacked by him while he was surrounded by several low powered mutants I expect him to put up more of a fight using his tactical and martial arts skills. The fact that Killmonger and his team were utterly defeated doesn’t do anything to demonstrate why readers should be impressed with his growth trajectory. If anything it demonstrates that he wasn’t a capable threat before he got his enhancements, which doesn’t bode well as T’Challas greatest enemy.

I vaguely remember Hill saying in an interview or in the comic that he had the opportunity to reinforce the image of KM from the movie or go against the grain and tell a more down to earth story. Like Coates, rather than taking the setup provided by Coogler to chart out a new badass direction he willingly chose to put the BP mythos in a position where it didn’t shine nearly as brightly as it could’ve. It was still well written for what it was but I’m not sure Hill is the writer to unabashedly depict T’Challa as a top tier character within the MU.

The majority of villains arent capable villains until after they get their powers. Green Goblin, Sandman, Doc Ock,... not a threat until after they get their powers. Without them Spider-Man would run over them.

The story I believe you guys want should take place between Panthers Rage and his return in Priest. Even in Rise, Killmoger was way out of his league fighting Tchalla.

[Marvell2100]

Deathstroke has superhuman enchantments.

Why would he be super dangerous before his enhancements. If he was that badass, he wouldn't need them to begin with. So if the story thake place before his enhancements and hes just a normal human being, below bullseye who has an superhuman talent makes sense.

I think the Killmonger(pre-symbiote)comparison to Deathstroke abilities-wise is pretty apt.

[Cville]

I think the Killmonger(pre-symbiote)comparison to Deathstroke abilities-wise is pretty apt.

Yes, because at that point their both super humanly enhanced. But he KM wasn't in Hills origin story.

[Ezyo1000]

Deathstroke has superhuman enchantments.

Why would he be super dangerous before his enhancements. If he was that badass, he wouldn't need them to begin with. So if the story thake place before his enhancements and hes just a normal human being, below bullseye who has an superhuman talent makes sense.

Because This is supposed to be s guy who can beat T'Challa straight up. If he ain't shit then all of a sudden with some strength enhancements, is somehow able to fight and beat one of the greatest h2h fighters on earth then why doesn't Everyone get strength enhancements instead of actually training in Martial arts? If strength transfers over to h2h then Thor hulk, sentry BM etc etc should be the greatest h2h fighters around.

Your practically proving my point here of how Hill did a disservice. A dangerous villain should be dangerous regardless of his strength level. If he can't match up blow for blow with T'Challa then he compensates that with something else. That's like saying why did T'Challa take the hsh when he beat Wakandas greatest warriors (and in Narcisse case, the DM), and the BP at the time in a gauntlet style challenge? He was badass enough to win without so why does he need it? Reason because it makes even be able to pick pull off even more badass feats.

Erik has a vendetta against Wakanda and T'Challa for him being taken from Wakanda, he wanted to become king with knight as his queen, in order tondo that he needs to be a threat. He wasn't, he was angry and ran headfirst into isht and other people bailed him out. He got punked throughout the story and was never shown how and why he was dangerous, and in the end when he kills knight? It was petty trolling at best, and absolutely pointless at worse.

I'm not saying Hill is bad or anything because I don't know his work, but the bit info know is that he could of done so much more for Erik if he wasn't trying to elevate Bulleye and kingpin

[Ezyo1000]

The majority of villains arent capable villains until after they get their powers. Green Goblin, Sandman, Doc Ock,... not a threat until after they get their powers. Without them Spider-Man would run over them.

The story I believe you guys want should take place between Panthers Rage and his return in Priest. Even in Rise, Killmoger was way out of his league fighting Tchalla.

the point is to show him as a badass capable of even standing with T'Challa in the first place. We all know that T'Challa fights above his weight class all the Time. Abd because of that people can see how he beats people like SS, Black dwarf, IM, Thanos, super skrulls etc. So is it that absurd to expect the same for how Erik wins? He may be physically stronger then T'Challa with his enhancements but that shouldn't mean anything because T'Challa is a better fighter and tactician. Yet he loses... Why doesn't make any sense, and then is worse when you read Erik's origin.

I remember on Pinterest, people were doing some math on MCU Erik's scars, how each one represents a confirmed kill. Basically given estimates he was somewhere between 800-1000 kills or something given size and location of his scars.. that should of been shown in the comics. Instead we see him barely killed a guy that came to assassinate him, and him nearly botch their assassination attempt then get his ass kicked by bulleye. I mean his entire team ran "dude it's bullseye run!!!" Should of been more impressive. Should of atleast drove him back.

I mean isht Thisnis Tetu all over again. He is supposed to be this big threat as he captured T'Challa and HZ.. and Akili literally ran up on him and knocked him on his ass. If he wanted he could of/should of just shot him in the head. Sane thing now in S3 Okoye solod symbiot killmonger... All credibility as a threat is now gone and in turn hurts everyone else involved because it makes everyone look weak as isht

[Cville]

the point is to show him as a badass capable of even standing with T'Challa in the first place. We all know that T'Challa fights above his weight class all the Time. Abd because of that people can see how he beats people like SS, Black dwarf, IM, Thanos, super skrulls etc. So is it that absurd to expect the same for how Erik wins? He may be physically stronger then T'Challa with his enhancements but that shouldn't mean anything because T'Challa is a better fighter and tactician. Yet he loses... Why doesn't make any sense, and then is worse when you read Erik's origin.

I remember on Pinterest, people were doing some math on MCU Erik's scars, how each one represents a confirmed kill. Basically given estimates he was somewhere between 800-1000 kills or something given size and location of his scars.. that should of been shown in the comics. Instead we see him barely killed a guy that came to assassinate him, and him nearly botch their assassination attempt then get his ass kicked by bulleye. I mean his entire team ran "dude it's bullseye run!!!" Should of been more impressive. Should of atleast drove him back.

I mean isht Thisnis Tetu all over again. He is supposed to be this big threat as he captured T'Challa and HZ.. and Akili literally ran up on him and knocked him on his ass. If he wanted he could of/should of just shot him in the head. Sane thing now in S3 Okoye solod symbiot killmonger... All credibility as a threat is now gone and in turn hurts everyone else involved because it makes everyone look weak as isht

He's not MCU Killmonger though. They just used some of the physical likeness. MU Killmonger was exiled and went to MIT. Never joined a military. If anything, he doesnt learn most if his skills until after he returned to Wakanda and lived in his home village. So I'm good with him losing because he hasn't trained under the best in the world yet.

[dkrook]

the point is to show him as a badass capable of even standing with T'Challa in the first place. We all know that T'Challa fights above his weight class all the Time. Abd because of that people can see how he beats people like SS, Black dwarf, IM, Thanos, super skrulls etc. So is it that absurd to expect the same for how Erik wins? He may be physically stronger then T'Challa with his enhancements but that shouldn't mean anything because T'Challa is a better fighter and tactician. Yet he loses... Why doesn't make any sense, and then is worse when you read Erik's origin.

I remember on Pinterest, people were doing some math on MCU Erik's scars, how each one represents a confirmed kill. Basically given estimates he was somewhere between 800-1000 kills or something given size and location of his scars.. that should of been shown in the comics. Instead we see him barely killed a guy that came to assassinate him, and him nearly botch their assassination attempt then get his ass kicked by bulleye. I mean his entire team ran "dude it's bullseye run!!!" Should of been more impressive. Should of atleast drove him back.

I mean isht Thisnis Tetu all over again. He is supposed to be this big threat as he captured T'Challa and HZ.. and Akili literally ran up on him and knocked him on his ass. If he wanted he could of/should of just shot him in the head. Sane thing now in S3 Okoye solod symbiot killmonger... All credibility as a threat is now gone and in turn hurts everyone else involved because it makes everyone look weak as isht

My brother I apologize for interrupting, but did you say that Okoye soloed a main villain that had been built up for like a year as a menace to T'challa?