Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[XPac]

Where's that goal-post moving GIF?

The topic of conversation was "why is Wakanda the only fictional 616 nation that has to deal with things like sex trafficking & drug smuggling?"

Your response was "It's more 'realistic'." I argued that realism doesn't lead to societal collapse, and you came back with "but it makes T'Challa look good!"

Despite the fact that T'challa has been blamed for EVERY problem Wakanda has had since Coates' first issue, all the way to the most recent release, you are claiming he looks GOOD, because he's better than the villains?

Realism doesn't lead to societal collapse, because the super heroes prevent that from happening. It's their job. That's why the societ in the mu hasn't collapsed yet and never will. And that's a part of what makes them look good.

And Tchalla is blamed for everything by the antagonists in the story... which is a part of the antagonists job. Say mean things about the hero. If anything the fact that the antagonists are saying is often means the writer is telling you something isn't accurate.

[Nate Grey]

Yes, that's a selling point.

Coming in 2020: Black Panther: Better than a Rapist, by Ta-Nehisi Coates and Sanford Greene

Coates already has the sequel planned. Coming in 2021: Black Panther: Still Not Rapin'

[XPac]

I guess T'Challa has no choice but to look good in Third World Wakanda.

Kind of yeah. Next to a bunch of rapists in a giant tree, it's not hard to look good.

[FLEX HECTIC]

Also...


At least he is not a pedophile...


Serial killer...


Robs old ladies for their welfare check...


And he refuses to park in spaces designated for the disabled either...


Whatta man...

[DigiCom]

Realism doesn't lead to societal collapse, because the super heroes prevent that from happening. It's their job. That's why the societ in the mu hasn't collapsed yet and never will. And that's a part of what makes them look good.

Except in Wakanda where warlords can have organized rape camps while the Golden City twiddles their thumbs, because it's "realistic".

Note, by the way, that T'Challa not only didn't solve that problem, there's no evidence he even KNEW about it. The "antagonists" did it.

And Tchalla is blamed for everything by the antagonists in the story... which is a part of the antagonists job. Say mean things about the hero. If anything the fact that the antagonists are saying is often means the writer is telling you something isn't accurate.

And what does it mean when his own SISTER is throwing shade, as seen LAST WEEK?

As for the whole "antagonists" being wrong... aren't they the same ones you were lionizing a few pages back for basically being Wakandan Punishers?

So tell me, my friend. Are they WRONG, or are they RIGHT?

[Marvell2100]

Also...


At least he is not a pedophile...


Serial killer...


Robs old ladies for their welfare check...


And he refuses to park in spaces designated for the disabled either...


Whatta man...

But does he leave the lid up on the toilet seat?

[skyvolt2000]

Except in Wakanda where warlords can have organized rape camps while the Golden City twiddles their thumbs, because it's "realistic".

Note, by the way, that T'Challa not only didn't solve that problem, there's no evidence he even KNEW about it. The "antagonists" did it.

If we are talking reality- there is no way the Golden City would NOT know about those camps.

It's like saying Chicago does not where the areas that makeup Chiraq are.

Yes even the Golden City would know about rape camps. Panther would have cleaned house the MOMENT he knew about it. Not let it fester or let his chosen support staff (lawyers, cops and so on) let fester too.

The FIRST whisper of a rape camp would be the LAST one after he got done. Even if he had to leave the Avengers fighting Unicron-it was going to get solved by him.

If not HIM-SHURI was going to do something about it. If not her Vibraxas and would say "Destroying rape camps is BENEATH the royal family. It's NOT beneath me doing it."

It would NEVER get to the level of the Doras doing it themselves and telling off the King. NEVER.

[FLEX HECTIC]

My concern is not with the rape camps but who snitched though...

[Ezyo1000]

Sure you can have it both ways. Fictional things can have realism ... they're just not always necessarily required to.

I'm perfectly fine with fiction not being realistic... but that doesn't mean a writer can't incorporate realism. Because it's fiction, marvel can have as much or as little realism as they choose. That's a writers perogative (with the blessing of editorial of course).

As far as establishing cohension and continuity... that's true up to a point. But at the same time, comic book writers can and do retcon things. BLack Panther didn't have a brother or a sister until a couple writers decided he had a brother an a sister... then he did. The Panther god wasn't the egyptian god bast until a writer one day decided that she was... then she was. I'd argue pretty much every recent BP writer from Priest onward except Liss were actually fairly liberal in their retcons of the character and his mythos. And that's not inherently a good or bad thing... that's just how the medium sort of works (though arguably moreso for the BP franchise than most).

it made sense when. Shuri was added because Hudlin did an origin story abd she is Ramondas daughter. Now if N'Yami was supposed to be her mother that wouldn't work because N'Yami died giving birth to T'Challa.
.and no you can't say, Wakanda, who has been the antithesis to to colonization are colonizers themselves, or that there is human trafficking because the US has it and it's something that has happened in other World powers. Wakanda is exceptional and has been able to advance further then the rest the world by atleast half a century in current MU time. So then to turn around and say well in real life, or realistically, all the crimes that happen in the US don't get to the presidents desk. Well T'Challa IS the title Character and a superhero in a FICTIONAL book. So the rules of reality don't apply.

Again you can't shackle realism and fiction whenever it's convenient to push an agenda or plot your story. If Wakanda on the last has kept tabs on the rest of the world and spied on nations to such a decree that T'Challa knows the secrets of heroes or too secret things going in the US. It's only logical to assume he is going to Know what's going on in his own nation which is significantly smaller then the US.

I mean on SWaD when people were dying we saw T'Challas inner monologue of his sensing their death's and knowing about their lives... Yet we are supposed to believe that a full-blown operation of rape camps in very obvious facilities went unnoticed? Where a large amount of of women were disappearing? Without any sort of context or build up to it?

The story just starts out that way and we don't get explanation through the book but a frakking tweet about what's going on.. but this is supposed to make sense because in the real world trafficking does occur.. so we are supposed to accept it without baby context just because.. nah

[Redjack]

Wakanda is not a 3rd World nation.

those only exist because of European colonialism, racism and economic terrorism and subjugation.

Wakanda is literally the opposite of all those things.

Compared to Wakanda the entire rest of the world is a 3rd World nation.

[Ezyo1000]

Realism doesn't lead to societal collapse, because the super heroes prevent that from happening. It's their job. That's why the societ in the mu hasn't collapsed yet and never will. And that's a part of what makes them look good.

And Tchalla is blamed for everything by the antagonists in the story... which is a part of the antagonists job. Say mean things about the hero. If anything the fact that the antagonists are saying is often means the writer is telling you something isn't accurate.

...Dude... Coates has season 1 START with Wakandas society basically collapsing. Without any context.. it started that way. And tell me, T'Challa as the hero is supposed to prevent it. Yet he has not. The Dora's put down the rape camps, infact, T'Challa was just like the average Wakandan man and fell I one of 3 categories (or I. His case 2) either uncaring, inept, or the misogynistic rapist but this makes T'Challa look good?

Eden brought Shuri back, Eden opened the gate to the ancestral plane and they saved Wakanda.. but this makes T'Challa look Good?

Storm saved Wakanda fron the Adversary, how does that make T'Challa, the hero, look good when he was praying just like the average Wakandan (which by your own words, are inferior to T'Challa) for Storm to save them, but this makes T'Challa look good? In the last issue, the beginning states thst the maroons killed N'Jadaka, and the issue before that, Okoye is not only front and center, but takes down the symbiote, but this makes T'Challa look good?

You also said the antagonist say mean things about the hero because it's their job. So, are the Ma the antagonist or not? What about Storm? Mother? Changamire? They all said bad things about T'Challa, so therefore it should be Inaccurate, according to your words from the writer. But in S1 T'Challa was bashed just like Tetu, and he didn't correct them. He had other people basically say "well he's not as bad but still sucks" and this was furthered by what Shuri said to the rsoe victims.

See how you are flip flopping here

[XPac]

Except in Wakanda where warlords can have organized rape camps while the Golden City twiddles their thumbs, because it's "realistic".

Note, by the way, that T'Challa not only didn't solve that problem, there's no evidence he even KNEW about it. The "antagonists" did it.



And what does it mean when his own SISTER is throwing shade, as seen LAST WEEK?

As for the whole "antagonists" being wrong... aren't they the same ones you were lionizing a few pages back for basically being Wakandan Punishers?

So tell me, my friend. Are they WRONG, or are they RIGHT?

Even in Wakanda, no social collapse. You had a spike in crime, which the Doras dealt with. And afterwards everything was fine.

Crime sometimes does have to happen in super hero fiction. But it was dealt with and everything returned to normal. Really that's all it means on the end.

As far as the MA goes... they were wrong. Just like the Punisher is wrong. Ultimately what they did was murder. And even rapists deserve proper due process. Everyone does.

The idea is not that they were right ... but they had a side you can understand. Some people, both in the story and in real life will root for people who murder rapists. In a compleye void I can objectively say they should have been arrested and brought to trial. But if it were my sister or mother or friend or even me in that cage, I'd absolutly be rooting for the MA to out them in a pine box.

Its why rapists work so well in this capacity. The MA can be muderers and antagonists while still be heroes in their own story.

[Ezyo1000]

If we are talking reality- there is no way the Golden City would NOT know about those camps.

It's like saying Chicago does not where the areas that makeup Chiraq are.

Yes even the Golden City would know about rape camps. Panther would have cleaned house the MOMENT he knew about it. Not let it fester or let his chosen support staff (lawyers, cops and so on) let fester too.

The FIRST whisper of a rape camp would be the LAST one after he got done. Even if he had to leave the Avengers fighting Unicron-it was going to get solved by him.

If not HIM-SHURI was going to do something about it. If not her Vibraxas and would say "Destroying rape camps is BENEATH the royal family. It's NOT beneath me doing it."

It would NEVER get to the level of the Doras doing it themselves and telling off the King. NEVER.

But Wakanda is an absolute monarch, which apparently means thst if T'Challa is "too distracted" then thebrest of Wakandas officials, intelligence, police force etc etc is unable to function without T'Challa holding their hands. How does Wakanda function without T'Challa there telling them how to breathe? But Remember, this realistic...

[DigiCom]

Even in Wakanda, no social collapse. You had a spike in crime, which the Doras dealt with. And afterwards everything was fine.

Crime sometimes does have to happen in super hero fiction. But it was dealt with and everything returned to normal. Really that's all it means on the end.

There were organized rape camps in big f'n treehouses. And crime was apparently SO rampant, that the security forces were stretched beyond their ability to handle it.

Its why rapists work so well in this capacity. The MA can be muderers and antagonists while still be heroes in their own story.

It's not their own story . The title of the book is, and has been Black Panther, not Midnight Angels.

It's been 4 bloody years. When in the name of Bast and all her kittens will T'Challa be the hero in his own story?

Not "looking good in comparison to the villains." Not "Coming up with a plan to give his ex-wife a powerup so she can save the day and get better PR."

The hero. The one who actually saves the day.

WHEN?

[Ezyo1000]

There were organized rape camps in big f'n treehouses. And crime was apparently SO rampant, that the security forces were stretched beyond their ability to handle it.



It's not their own story . The title of the book is, and has been Black Panther, not Midnight Angels.

It's been 4 bloody years. When in the name of Bast and all her kittens will T'Challa be the hero in his own story?

Not "looking good in comparison to the villains." Not "Coming up with a plan to give his ex-wife a powerup so she can save the day and get better PR."

The hero. The one who actually saves the day.

WHEN?

Don't you know Digi? When he gets the MA to come back to his side, changamire giving his speech, and having Eden open the gate to get to Shuri and open the gate to get his ancestors to take out the bandits, getting his people to pray to Storm, getting Thunderball to take out klaw, and Okoye front and center with him off to the side and her taking out N'Jadaka, IS him saving thr day. Don't you know? His super power isn't the HSH, super genius intellect, h2h, super tech, always being 2 steps ahead, or causing people to underestimate him (as Priest said his super power was).

No his true superpower, under Coates pen, is the power of delegation. And this power is so strong, that on 2 different occasions, someone else defeated the main bad guy, and throughout his book, other supporting cast have solved issues or saved people or defeated various villains.

If we were looking at the marvel power grid, his delegation would be class 5!