Steve Rogers: Captain America Appreciation 2019

[Huntsman Spider]

That's a very good point. Steve has a history of the secrets people keep from him coming back around to bite him in the butt, either to the point where he is the one who has to fix the mess (Siege, to give one example, and the poor guy had JUST come back from the dead, talk about not getting any downtime to process things), or, the secrets themselves leave him emotionally devastated and extrapolate his serious (and yet untreated, see a therapist, Steve) case of Survivors Guilt, like your example of finding out that Bucky or Sharon were still alive, but endured untold torture in the interim.

Another example that comes to mind is the Illuminati.

But hell, even the SHRA, itself, qualifies. Steve was blindsided by Hill, and blindsided again by the fact that it devolved that quickly into SHIELD shooting at him for a law that hadn't even passed yet, it makes you wonder if the entirety of Civil War could have been avoided had the pro-registration side been more upfront about what was going on (and dealt with things in a more humane manner).

The fact that Kobik was secretly meeting with the Red Skull while they hatched together this "ideal world" was a secret. Kobik herself referred to it as such.

Pleasant Hill was a secret.

The fact that Hill kept the cosmic cube around instead of destroying it like she was ordered to do, a secret.

The rest of the Invaders kept a secret from Steve that, decades later, led to him having to invade the Kree homeworld to rescue Namor (Robinson's run).

You know, in retrospect, now that I think of it, it's amazing Steve doesn't have more of a phobia against secrets being kept from him than he already does. What Peggy is having Bucky and Sharon do on her behalf - two of the people that Steve loves the most - is, in a way, kind of, well... cruel. I really, really hope she has solid reasoning. I trust that she must have, for Sharon and Bucky to go along with it.

Good point about Carol's hair. Didn't put that together before (in comparison to Steve's book) but you're right.

...makes me wonder... one of their friends and co-workers has been falsely accused of murder and was sent to be tortured by Strucker, of all people, and yet we've had not so much as a peep from the other Avengers?! Coates and Brevoort... why?

Good points. And yes, you're very much right about Civil War being entirely avoidable had it not been for Hill's trigger-happiness on enforcing the SHRA and finally bringing all those damn superheroes who wouldn't play ball with S.H.I.E.L.D. and/or the U.S. government in line. Hmm, come to think of it, since you did bring up Brubaker's run in context, that could be where it all started --- with Bucky coming back as the Winter Soldier at the beginning, then Sharon coming back from Dimension Z, all the crap with S.H.I.E.L.D., the Avengers, and the Illuminati leading into Civil War and the destabilization of the superhero community that ensued and followed from that, then everything with Pleasant Hill to Secret Empire, and now Peggy coming back as Dryad and keeping that a secret from Steve . . . he definitely should see someone about that.

[justanotherclassic]

Not to mention that Steve’s (and Sharon’s) adopted son is also presumed dead at this point. So he should have dead kid angst going on that’s he probably pushing down.

[Huntsman Spider]

Not to mention that Steve’s (and Sharon’s) adopted son is also presumed dead at this point. So he should have dead kid angst going on that’s he probably pushing down.

Very good point there as well.

[Marvell2100]

Not to mention that Steve’s (and Sharon’s) adopted son is also presumed dead at this point. So he should have dead kid angst going on that’s he probably pushing down.

Only if he remembers he had a son. The writers and editors sure don't.

[capandkirby]

Good points. And yes, you're very much right about Civil War being entirely avoidable had it not been for Hill's trigger-happiness on enforcing the SHRA and finally bringing all those damn superheroes who wouldn't play ball with S.H.I.E.L.D. and/or the U.S. government in line. Hmm, come to think of it, since you did bring up Brubaker's run in context, that could be where it all started --- with Bucky coming back as the Winter Soldier at the beginning, then Sharon coming back from Dimension Z, all the crap with S.H.I.E.L.D., the Avengers, and the Illuminati leading into Civil War and the destabilization of the superhero community that ensued and followed from that, then everything with Pleasant Hill to Secret Empire, and now Peggy coming back as Dryad and keeping that a secret from Steve . . . he definitely should see someone about that.

Right?! I would say it started even before Brubaker, it started with Waid, and the fact that Sharon faked her death for an assignment and then SHIELD abandoned her behind enemy lines. For years Steve believed she was dead, having no clue that the death was staged and that Sharon was a POW. But yes, most of the really huge secret keeping that Steve would then either have to go in after and play clean up, or affected him (and everyone around him) in terrible, awful ways (*cough*Secret Empire*cough*) happened Brubaker on up.

You know, it just dawned on me that Hill is directly responsible for three of the worst things that ever happened to Steve. Ugh.

But yes, all that crap that has happened, starting with being an active combatant in WW2 - I mean, the Survivor's Guilt thing has been part of his character (meaning all that guilt he carried around about Bucky) since waking up from the ice in the Silver Age - Steve should have seen a therapist (preferably not Faustus) ages ago. Poor guy has been through a TON of trauma. Or, you know, see a barber, whatever works...

[justanotherclassic]

Only if he remembers he had a son. The writers and editors sure don't.

Wooooomp.

Poor Ian is forever going to be stuck in that elevator with his Symbiote-infused AU sister. It’s kind of wild that literally the only thing that seems to have stuck from Remender’s run is aging Sharon up.

[capandkirby]

I'm going to go on record and say that having none of the Avengers pop up in the current Cap book is an unfortunate decision (in an otherwise stellar book). It makes the other Avengers look like jerks, or, in the very least, fair-weather friends. And I realize it's not intentional, it's a writing/editing decision that they're probably only doing so the focus remains on the DoL (which, love them) but still, it's not exactly doing the team dynamics of that group (the Avengers) any favors.

[Marvell2100]

I'm going to go on record and say that having none of the Avengers pop up in the current Cap book is an unfortunate decision (in an otherwise stellar book). It makes the other Avengers look like jerks, or, in the very least, fair-weather friends. And I realize it's not intentional, it's a writing/editing decision that they're probably only doing so the focus remains on the DoL (which, love them) but still, it's not exactly doing the team dynamics of that group (the Avengers) any favors.

None of the other Avengers knew that Black Panther was in another galaxy fighting a galactic empire.

I can understand that heroes have their own things going on but can they at least acknowledge that something has happened to them to their teammates?

[capandkirby]

None of the other Avengers knew that Black Panther was in another galaxy fighting a galactic empire.

I can understand that heroes have their own things going on but can they at least acknowledge that something has happened to them to their teammates?

Exactly! Especially since the Avengers have appeared in Captain Marvel's book, no problem (and, in fact, she's currently, but not really, "killing" them). They appeared in Iron Man's book, too. I mean, it was one panel of Ultron sending them on a wild goose-chase so they couldn't come and rescue Tony, but one panel is all you need to show they care about one another. So, I don't get why Cap, and apparently Panther, are a no-go zone and it looks bad.

[justanotherclassic]

None of the other Avengers knew that Black Panther was in another galaxy fighting a galactic empire.

I can understand that heroes have their own things going on but can they at least acknowledge that something has happened to them to their teammates?

This is probably just a Coates thing then, right? The isolation away from the team for whatever reason.

[capandkirby]

This is probably just a Coates thing then, right? The isolation away from the team for whatever reason.

Could be Coates but could also be editorial. The fact that Sam isn't in the Cap book I would think would be more of an editorial decision than a Coates one, for example.

[Huntsman Spider]

Right?! I would say it started even before Brubaker, it started with Waid, and the fact that Sharon faked her death for an assignment and then SHIELD abandoned her behind enemy lines. For years Steve believed she was dead, having no clue that the death was staged and that Sharon was a POW. But yes, most of the really huge secret keeping that Steve would then either have to go in after and play clean up, or affected him (and everyone around him) in terrible, awful ways (*cough*Secret Empire*cough*) happened Brubaker on up.

You know, it just dawned on me that Hill is directly responsible for three of the worst things that ever happened to Steve. Ugh.

But yes, all that crap that has happened, starting with being an active combatant in WW2 - I mean, the Survivor's Guilt thing has been part of his character (meaning all that guilt he carried around about Bucky) since waking up from the ice in the Silver Age - Steve should have seen a therapist (preferably not Faustus) ages ago. Poor guy has been through a TON of trauma. Or, you know, see a barber, whatever works...

Ah, yeah. Frankly, everyone in Marvel should be seeing therapists --- as long as they're not Faustus (or Moonstone, for that matter). Doc Samson's a bit iffy, too, these days, given his earlier stint on the evil side in Jeph Loeb's Hulk and whether or not he's on Bruce's side now, given Bruce's intent to smash human society (or at least its most corrupt and destructive elements).

Wooooomp.

Poor Ian is forever going to be stuck in that elevator with his Symbiote-infused AU sister. It’s kind of wild that literally the only thing that seems to have stuck from Remender’s run is aging Sharon up.

Yeah, that's a shame.

I'm going to go on record and say that having none of the Avengers pop up in the current Cap book is an unfortunate decision (in an otherwise stellar book). It makes the other Avengers look like jerks, or, in the very least, fair-weather friends. And I realize it's not intentional, it's a writing/editing decision that they're probably only doing so the focus remains on the DoL (which, love them) but still, it's not exactly doing the team dynamics of that group (the Avengers) any favors.

Indeed. I had the same sentiment about the not-so-Superior Spider-Man, insofar as the Avengers apparently writing off "Spider-Man's" radical personality shift and the increasingly violent and amoral conduct accompanying that because they had bigger problems at the time. Come to think of it, though, in light of a lot of badness that's happened to various Avengers without the rest of the team (eventually) rallying around them for support over the years, one could question how good they really are for each other, on top of the ongoing debate in some places about whether or not they're good for the world (in-universe).

[Snoop Dogg]

Wooooomp.

Poor Ian is forever going to be stuck in that elevator with his Symbiote-infused AU sister. It’s kind of wild that literally the only thing that seems to have stuck from Remender’s run is aging Sharon up.

good

This is probably just a Coates thing then, right? The isolation away from the team for whatever reason.

it's coates

[tliscord]

I'm listening to The Death of Captain America by Larry Hama, narrated by Richard Rohan,Tara Giordano on my Audible app. Try Audible and get it here: https://www.audible.com/pd?asin=1974...ORAP0511160006

Off on another tangent, I discovered a very nice Larry Hama adaptation of “Death ....” really quite good if audiobooks are your thing. Hama is not quite literal here making a few changes, but it was highly enjoyable 6 hour audiobook particularly if like me you’re a fan of Ed Brubaker’s.

I was trying to think of instances where Steve has kept fairly heady secrets and I came up with Gruenwald’s final arc and Steve’s eulogy of Bucky’s demise during Fear itself.

Getting back to Sharon, I find it so interesting how Stan depicted her in those early Tales of Suspense stories. I’d not describe him as a mover or shaker in the early feminist movement but Sharon was clearly portrayed as devoted to her career .... despite Steve’s swooning. How funny that he was devastated by her decision not to marry him because she had a career. So interesting to reread those stories nowadays.

As an aside, god, do I love to hate Hill. Truly a great character Bendis somehow stumbled onto ... Civil War, Pleasant Hill, even back as far as the inception of the New Avengers. I’d like to see a comic devoted to Hill having dinner with Carter and Rogers, maybe with Tony, James, and Natasha over for desert. She’s been a total pain in his ass and truly not afraid to go toe to toe with him. Gotta give her credit. I’d go so far as to say a worthy replacement for the “ unseen one” ( thank you Jason Aaron). Wouldn’t mind Nick Sr showing up for after dinner aperitifs.

[tliscord]

Not to mention that Steve’s (and Sharon’s) adopted son is also presumed dead at this point. So he should have dead kid angst going on that’s he probably pushing down.

Yeah that was never addressed. I was also terribly disappointed Brubaker glossed over Sharon’s miscarriage too. We were never privy to that conversation between Steve and Sharon ( c’mon it had to have happened, unless I suppose it’s yet another secret). Odd that Remender set up this weird dichotomy that involved Steve raising Ian initially, then Sharon raising him, both independent of each other. Just a really strange dynamic. I mean who thinks this stuff up? I really thought the loss of a pregnancy might be deep grist for the mill in any writer’s eyes but apparently Ed thought differently. On the flip side, Dimension Z has now officially overtaken Capwolf for me as the most oddly tangential run in Cap’s history.