Bruce, Alfred, Dick and trust and closeness

[Tzigone]

A while back someone (I cannot recall who, and could not remember exact phrase for search) commented on the shift in relationships between Bruce and Dick and Bruce and Alfred. I think it was bronze age, but wouldn't swear to it. But in that one Alfred something along the lines of the knowing Bruce better than anyone except Dick or being closer to Bruce than anyone except Dick. And the poster commented on the change in relationship and how that caveat would not be used today.

Here is an old thread about who Bruce trusts most. First post says

Alfred is obviously far and away at number 1 so we don't need to include him.

But, of course, that wasn't always true. Just reading older stories and Batman #40 (from 1947) made me think of it. In that issue, Bruce fakes his death. Dick is in on the secret, and Alfred isn't. Obviously, that is a very old example.

But when do you think the shift from Dick as the person Bruce is closest to and trust the most to Alfred in that position happened?

[Restingvoice]

When they made him the father figure who raised Bruce

[bat39]

A while back someone (I cannot recall who, and could not remember exact phrase for search) commented on the shift in relationships between Bruce and Dick and Bruce and Alfred. I think it was bronze age, but wouldn't swear to it. But in that one Alfred something along the lines of the knowing Bruce better than anyone except Dick or being closer to Bruce than anyone except Dick. And the poster commented on the change in relationship and how that caveat would not be used today.

Here is an old thread about who Bruce trusts most. First post says But, of course, that wasn't always true. Just reading older stories and Batman #40 (from 1947) made me think of it. In that issue, Bruce fakes his death. Dick is in on the secret, and Alfred isn't. Obviously, that is a very old example.

But when do you think the shift from Dick as the person Bruce is closest to and trust the most to Alfred in that position happened?

That was me. I was talking about the classic 70's story "There's No Hope in Crime Alley" in which Alfred wonders where Bruce goes off to at a certain date every year, and then reflects on how he's Bruce's closest confidant after Dick.

I found the fact that Alfred didn't know about the anniversary of the Wayne murders to be rather jarring, as well as the claim that he's only Bruce's second-closest confidant after Dick. Of course, I first read that particular story when I was a lot younger, long before I fully understood the nuances of DC continuity shifts.

I guess Year One was the turning point in that it retconned Alfred into having been around since Bruce's childhood. Though the Alfred-Bruce relationship really isn't explored much in that story, I guess having Alfred be there from the beginning paved the way for making him Bruce's father-figure and closest confidant.

The Burton movies and BTAS also likely played a major role in cementing this in popular conscioussness, as did the steady stream of Year One-era Batman stories featuring Alfred with no Robin in sight.

[kevink31593]

Maybe Alan Burnett should get credit for retconning Alfred into Bruce’s childhood instead of Frank Miller. Burnett wrote the Super Friends episode, “The Fear”, which flashed back to the death of the Waynes. The Super Friends flashback clearly shows Alfred standing at the Wayne gravesite with child Bruce. According to Wikipedia, that Super Friends episode first aired September 28, 1985. Batman #404, the first issue of Year One, didn’t go on sale until over a year later in November 1986 (cover dated Feb 87).

[Tzigone]

Maybe Alan Burnett should get credit for retconning Alfred into Bruce’s childhood instead of Frank Miller. Burnett wrote the Super Friends episode, “The Fear”, which flashed back to the death of the Waynes. The Super Friends flashback clearly shows Alfred standing at the Wayne gravesite with child Bruce. According to Wikipedia, that Super Friends episode first aired September 28, 1985. Batman #404, the first issue of Year One, didn’t go on sale until over a year later in November 1986 (cover dated Feb 87).

For me, it's more blame than credit (the more I think on Alfred's role in modern Batman, the more I dislike it), but that's an interesting bit of trivia.

[Frontier]

I definitely think adaptions and the retcon of Alfred being with Bruce since childhood cemented that Alfred was probably closer to Bruce then Dick was since he knew Bruce longer, since no one outside people who look up that kind of trivia or read old comics would know that Alfred was a later addition to the mythos who wasn't as "in-deep" as he is now.

[Tzigone]

I definitely think adaptions and the retcon of Alfred being with Bruce since childhood cemented that Alfred was probably closer to Bruce then Dick was since he knew Bruce longer, since no one outside people who look up that kind of trivia or read old comics would know that Alfred was a later addition to the mythos who wasn't as "in-deep" as he is now.

That's probably very true. As I said, the more I think about it, the more I dislike it. From Bruce's coincidentally (I don't think one is connected to the other) being so much more emotionally damaged in the versions where Alfred raises him and the reflection of that on Alfred's abilities, to the changing role of Alfred in his adult life (I find both employee and parental figure at the same time problematic), to the demotion of Dick in importance and significance and closeness to Bruce. While there are some bits I like about Alfred the parental role, the negatives far outweigh the positives when I start weighing them up.