Ororo Munroe: Storm Appreciation 2020

[Cville]

He didn't write her bad. If anything he made T'Challa really stubborn about what he was trying to do.

That's what I meant. If that's what he was going to do, just leave her out. Have him in HK and her doing Xmissions, but they call each other each night. Even if its Hickman style and its letters to each other.

[jwatson]

they did reconcile though and Coates was showing how strong their love was for one another. ororo wasn't jaded by the fact that tchalla lost his memories and fell for snother woman. her love for him was so strong that she was not insecure in their past nor was she going to play the jealous woman and claim they couldn't be their for one anoyher considering their connection. I think thst part is being overblown a bit.

Well im sorry and color me a prude but that sounds like disprespect to me. Much more so than not waiting. Tchallla was in bed with her the previous issue reassuring her that he loved her and instead of believing that to what? Spare her own feelings she gets in front of it and offers her man up? I could never see Tchalla doing the same and if he did i doubt people would be all "showing how strong their love is." sorry not sorry but showing how strong your love is doesn't involve enticing another woman to sleep with your needy man. but again, that is just me.

and what was there even for her to be jaded about? dude lost his memories.

[jwatson]

The Nakia plot line wasn't bad but Coates is simply incapable of ever giving T'Challa props or using him as a source of positivity. So rather than having two women peacefully come to terms with their mutual love of the same man, he decided to throw shade by having Storm basically say T'Challa is incapable of being faithful and offered him on a platter. T'Challa is reduced to being a black man solely driven by sex, Storm looks like a passive-aggressive cuckold, and Nakia is characterized as some home wrecker. Bad looks all around for 3 black people in what should've been a powerful moment of reconciliation.

Thank you, exactly. I don't support that. If you want to be free and clear okay but Tchalla was all in and then some and for me it amounted to nothing because Coates continously crapped on him. It is in no doubt he changed for storm but it wasn't enough apparently because at that point i immediately said in my post she must be looking for an out. It don't make no damn sense. It made storm look far more disgusting than this story.

[jwatson]

That's what I meant. If that's what he was going to do, just leave her out. Have him in HK and her doing Xmissions, but they call each other each night. Even if its Hickman style and its letters to each other.

Exactly. No one wants Tchalla to look bad. At least i don't. But it's like i should just be okay with a writer bringing her in just for tchalla to be all "i love you but i got to be a man." Naw. Given their status if ANYONE was ever serious about them they would have had a book with both their names on it. so who is really accepting crumbs and who sees it for what it is and isn't about.

[Marvell2100]

That's what I meant. If that's what he was going to do, just leave her out. Have him in HK and her doing Xmissions, but they call each other each night. Even if its Hickman style and its letters to each other.

Okay, writing T'Challa as stubborn is one thing. Writing him as a jackass is another which Liss did not do. T'Challa felt like he had something to prove, like many other characters. Liss wrote Storm a someone giving support to T'Challa and still in her own way slightly admonishes him while still giving him his space.

I didn't see anything wrong with either portrayal.

[Cville]

Okay, writing T'Challa as stubborn is one thing. Writing him as a jackass is another which Liss did not do. T'Challa felt like he had something to prove, like many other characters. Liss wrote Storm a someone giving support to T'Challa and still in her own way slightly admonishes him while still giving him his space.

I didn't see anything wrong with either portrayal.

Yes he did. Only reason to leave your wife to run around and play superhero is if it was a War Dog assignment or secret mission that they thought he was the best fit for.

If Liss had teased Kingpin of Wakanda in the early issues and Tchalla had to go undercover working his way though the NY crime hierarchy starting with Vlad and American Panther to figure out the plot without being spotted, than okay. Storm being in NY would be a pretty obvious tipoff to Kingpin.

And it wasn't just Storm. He was a jackass to Luke and Spiderman. I justified SM because I figured he didnt know him that well. But then I saw the Hudlin SM scene where he offered him HSH and the Dora cornrowed Peter's hair. Tchalla was out of line in HK. Lol.

[Marvell2100]

Yes he did. Only reason to leave your wife to run around and play superhero is if it was a War Dog assignment or secret mission that they thought he was the best fit for.

If Liss had teased Kingpin of Wakanda in the early issues and Tchalla had to go undercover working his way though the NY crime hierarchy starting with Vlad and American Panther to figure out the plot without being spotted, than okay. Storm being in NY would be a pretty obvious tipoff to Kingpin.

And it wasn't just Storm. He was a jackass to Luke and Spiderman. I justified SM because I figured he didnt know him that well. But then I saw the Hudlin SM scene where he offered him HSH and the Dora cornrowed Peter's hair. Tchalla was out of line in HK. Lol.

And that's in line with BP's characterization. We saw the same with Priest(look at what he did to Tony Stark and the Avengers) Hudlin(Luke Cage) and even McDuffie(He does it with Storm there).

T'Challa is someone who believes he is right, his way is the right way 100% of the time and he wants to do everything on his terms. That's one of those character flaws that BP fans keep pointing out that no one else seems to notice.

Black Panther can be a jerk.

[Cville]

And that's in line with BP's characterization. We saw the same with Priest(look at what he did to Tony Stark and the Avengers) Hudlin(Luke Cage) and even McDuffie(He does it with Storm there).

T'Challa is someone who believes he is right, his way is the right way 100% of the time and he wants to do everything on his terms. That's one of those character flaws that BP fans keep pointing out that no one else seems to notice.

Black Panther can be a jerk.

But in Priest the narrative is that he doesn't know the Avengers that well. That gets flushed out more in enemy of the state part 2. He doesn't talk that way to Zuri or Ramonda which at the point of Liss, Storm and Luke should be that close.

[Marvell2100]

But in Priest the narrative is that he doesn't know the Avengers that well. That gets flushed out more in enemy of the state part 2. He doesn't talk that way to Zuri or Ramonda which at the point of Liss, Storm and Luke should be that close.

He wasn't that close to Shuri or Ramonda in TRO apparently.

[Cville]

He wasn't that close to Shuri or Ramonda in TRO apparently.

I dont even think Ramonda was in TRO? That would be funny, all that time talking to T'chaka snd he doesn't pass any messages between them. Lol

[Marvell2100]

But in Priest the narrative is that he doesn't know the Avengers that well. That gets flushed out more in enemy of the state part 2. He doesn't talk that way to Zuri or Ramonda which at the point of Liss, Storm and Luke should be that close.

Also, T'Challa was in a different place in Priest's run than Liss'. He lost to Doom and doubted himself. This was his Born Again story.

[Devaishwarya]

I really enjoyed Liss' BP and while I completely understood his/T'Challa's rationale for going solo (although Storm too would have been mentally and emotionally scarred by Doom's attack)...I believe he threw away a great opportunity to showcase Storm and T'Challa's reconnecting and strengthening their marriage/relationship post Doomgarbagewar.

Yes, Storm is a top tier power house but...that's not ALL she is.

When she lost her powers, she honed so many other aspects of her character and abilities that didn't rely on her powers...her resourcefullness, her H2H, her strategising, her sneaky-ness/theft skills, her strength...and for BP:MWF, she could have utilised her powers in very subtle quiet ways...all of which could work in that street level/undercover setting. I remember thinking at the time it would have been awesome to see another side to her character and power applications and she and T'Challa both truly working together instead of separate and against each other as they usually did...at the time.

While I don't know if he was mandated or...he just wanted to write T'Challa solo or...he didn't know how to write them as a couple relying on each other's strengths but...leaving Storm out of that run was a huge mistake.

[Marvell2100]

I really enjoyed Liss' BP and while I completely understood his/T'Challa's rationale for going solo (although Storm too would have been mentally and emotionally scarred by Doom's attack)...I believe he threw away a great opportunity to showcase Storm and T'Challa's reconnecting and strengthening their marriage/relationship post Doomgarbagewar.

Yes, Storm is a top tier power house but...that's not ALL she is.

When she lost her powers, she honed so many other aspects of her character and abilities that didn't rely on her powers...her resourcefullness, her H2H, her strategising, her sneaky-ness/theft skills, her strength...and for BP:MWF, she could have utilised her powers in very subtle quiet ways...all of which could work in that street level/undercover setting. I remember thinking at the time it would have been awesome to see another side to her character and power applications and she and T'Challa both truly working together instead of separate and against each other as they usually did...at the time.

While I don't know if he was mandated or...he just wanted to write T'Challa solo or...he didn't know how to write them as a couple relying on each other's strengths but...leaving Storm out of that run was a huge mistake.

Like I said, he wanted to use her but was limited in what he could do with her. Marvel wanted bare bones BP, no tech, no suit. This was BP's Born Again. I put this at the feet of editorial than at Liss'.

[Devaishwarya]

Which means the writing may have already been on the wall for the dissolution of the marriage in AvX

And So here we are, again.
With respect to Coates' relationship...in the immortal words of Whitney Houston:

Don't want you
Don't need you
Can't have you.

[Marvell2100]

Which means the writing may have already been on the wall for the dissolution of the marriage in AvX

And So here we are, again.
With respect to Coates' relationship...in the immortal words of Whitney Houston:

Don't want you
Don't need you
Can't have you.

I've been preaching for the end since way before Coates showed up. Unless everyone is committed to making it work, i.e. writers and editors, then it's a waste of time.