Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Redjack]

partial list.

BLACKJACK - Alex Simmons & Various
CONCRETE PARK - Erika Alexander & Tony Puryear
GENIUS - Marc Bernardin & various
BLACK - Roye Okupe & Various
MIRANDA MERCURY - Brandon Thomas & Various
MOLLY DANGER -Jamal Igle
EXCELLENCE - Brandon Thomas, Khary Randolph & Emilio Lopez
MALIKA - Roye Okupe & various
DESTROYER - Victor LaValle & Dietrich Smith
NIOBE, SHE IS LIFE - Sebastian A Jones, Amandla Stenberg & Ashley A Woods
VINDICATORS (and lots of others) - Kevin Grevioux & Various
STORMBRINGERS - Korby Marks & various
VESCELL - Enrique Carrion & John Upchurch
BITTER ROOT - David Walker, Chuck Brown & Sanford Green
HORSEMEN- Jiba Molei Anderson

[DigiCom]

They obviously aren't the Punisher ... but the point is they were doing what the Punisher was going for the same reason. Asking why they didn't call the authorities is like asking why the Punisher doesnt... because they weren't interested in seeing the criminals arrested and put on trial. They were interested in killing them.

The Punisher isn't an active member of the armed forces/law enforcement community (not exactly sure where the DM fit).

[XPac]

The Punisher isn't an active member of the armed forces/law enforcement community (not exactly sure where the DM fit).

Neither were the Midnight Angels at that point in the story. They were fugitives from law enforcement.

Criminals wanted for murder typically don't call the cops.

[Marvell2100]

They obviously aren't the Punisher ... but the point is they were doing what the Punisher was going for the same reason. Asking why they didn't call the authorities is like asking why the Punisher doesnt... because they weren't interested in seeing the criminals arrested and put on trial. They were interested in killing them.

Again, they aren't vigilantes or the Punisher, they are apart of the government authority. That is the inexcusable writing that you seem adverse to criticize Coates about.

Also, when Coates has T'Challa meet with those dictators in Wakanda to discuss how to deal with the rebellion, why didn't Coates have him reach out to the past Panthers that he's connected to for advice? That was just plain stupid and inexcusable writing.

[XPac]

Okay I'm only going to address the first part of your post, about BP and us enthusiast criticizing writers. You say you agree with X-Pac because he is knowledgeable..
95% of the people posting in this thread are just as knowledgeable and some are even more knowledgeable then he is. His claim to Hickman being worse then Coates with that scene about Shuri dying and T'Challa being cool with it. Here is the scene for context:



What follows that panel is Shuri telling T'Challa she will miss him and him responding that he will see her soon. Hardly him being"cool" with her dying. And you claim this is worse then this:






That's how Jonathan Hickman ended his arc with T'Challa and coates scene takes place 8 months later.

So yeah Coates has done more damage. As for Mayberry? Everyone in here has unanimously agreed that (prior to Coates) he is the worst BP writer and Doom war was astronomically stupid. However, your assumption that under Coates pen that T'Challa didn't know he was dealing with dictators is false and shows a lack of knowledge about his run as in that issue T'Challa is having a internal conversation in which he is saying he knows they are all known despots, yet met with them just to see what they would say and when the *gasp* betrayal happens, even casuals reading the book went "WTF that was obviously a set up".

Doom war was stupid and damaging. And Hickmans saving grace to T'Challa abd Wakanda happened in the scene that I posted above. Coates though has: introduced rape, misogyny, gender inequality, and an uncaring government into Wakanda in S1, all of that stuff goes against established continuity especially the gender inequality because the mythos has been very much supporting and putting women in roles of authority.

S2 he introduced Wakanda being a Columbus analogue, and completely contradicting the entire reason for why Lee and Kirby created Wakanda (he also did this in S1 but he just kept on compiling onto it here) by making them into colonizers and driving the denizens out in chains, and changed the Wakandan gods so he could power up Storm and simultaneously throw T'Challa and Wakanda under the bus to do so.

S3 he takes it to another level by making intergalactic Wakanda literally America except 5x worse in regards to slavery. He claims that Wakandans if given the chance would essentially become colonizers (even though they could of done that in the 616 if they really wanted to but chose not to) and makes this season an allegory of the slave trade.

All this is infinitely more damaging then anything the others have done because he imposed isht into the mythos that completely goes against continuity because (in a recent interview) he confirms he thinks it's his role to tell slave stories so now Wakanda is shackled with isht that BP and his world was created to combat and go against in the first place

If T'Challa really not cool with Shuri killing herself then he can freaking STOP her from killing herself. In the least try a bit harder to talk her out of it... or just flat out knock her butt out and teleport her back to safety. He's in the business of saving lives... might as well add his sister to that list.

And I stand by my arguement that killing Shuri is worse than the tree house rape scene, for the simple reason that Shuri actually matters. Tree house rape scene is like a relatively unimportant 2 page scene will rapists who we never see again and victims who we never see again. Shuri conversely is the most important supporting character in the BP mythos... killing her is a BIG deal.

Thankfully her death was reversed, but I don't believe it changes the notion that she's the most valuable aspect in the BP mythos short of T'Challa himself. So for me, killing her is easily the most worst thing you can do short of killing T'CHalla himself. My opinion at least ... clearly others feel differently and that's fine.

[XPac]

Again, they aren't vigilantes or the Punisher, they are apart of the government authority. That is the inexcusable writing that you seem adverse to criticize Coates about.

Also, when Coates has T'Challa meet with those dictators in Wakanda to discuss how to deal with the rebellion, why didn't Coates have him reach out to the past Panthers that he's connected to for advice? That was just plain stupid and inexcusable writing.

During the tree house rape scene they WERE vigillantes. WHen you're a fugitive from the law wanted for murder, you stop being apart of the government authority.

And T'Challa wasn't on speaking term with the past Panther at that point in the story. They shut him down in TIme Runs Out when he faied to detonate the bomb, and weren't show again on good term with them until the very end of season 1.

[Marvell2100]

Okay I'm only going to address the first part of your post, about BP and us enthusiast criticizing writers. You say you agree with X-Pac because he is knowledgeable..
95% of the people posting in this thread are just as knowledgeable and some are even more knowledgeable then he is. His claim to Hickman being worse then Coates with that scene about Shuri dying and T'Challa being cool with it. Here is the scene for context:



What follows that panel is Shuri telling T'Challa she will miss him and him responding that he will see her soon. Hardly him being"cool" with her dying. And you claim this is worse then this:






That's how Jonathan Hickman ended his arc with T'Challa and coates scene takes place 8 months later.

So yeah Coates has done more damage. As for Mayberry? Everyone in here has unanimously agreed that (prior to Coates) he is the worst BP writer and Doom war was astronomically stupid. However, your assumption that under Coates pen that T'Challa didn't know he was dealing with dictators is false and shows a lack of knowledge about his run as in that issue T'Challa is having a internal conversation in which he is saying he knows they are all known despots, yet met with them just to see what they would say and when the *gasp* betrayal happens, even casuals reading the book went "WTF that was obviously a set up".

Doom war was stupid and damaging. And Hickmans saving grace to T'Challa abd Wakanda happened in the scene that I posted above. Coates though has: introduced rape, misogyny, gender inequality, and an uncaring government into Wakanda in S1, all of that stuff goes against established continuity especially the gender inequality because the mythos has been very much supporting and putting women in roles of authority.

S2 he introduced Wakanda being a Columbus analogue, and completely contradicting the entire reason for why Lee and Kirby created Wakanda (he also did this in S1 but he just kept on compiling onto it here) by making them into colonizers and driving the denizens out in chains, and changed the Wakandan gods so he could power up Storm and simultaneously throw T'Challa and Wakanda under the bus to do so.

S3 he takes it to another level by making intergalactic Wakanda literally America except 5x worse in regards to slavery. He claims that Wakandans if given the chance would essentially become colonizers (even though they could of done that in the 616 if they really wanted to but chose not to) and makes this season an allegory of the slave trade.

All this is infinitely more damaging then anything the others have done because he imposed isht into the mythos that completely goes against continuity because (in a recent interview) he confirms he thinks it's his role to tell slave stories so now Wakanda is shackled with isht that BP and his world was created to combat and go against in the first place

EZ, at this point some people are just arguing this isht for the sake of arguing. This really tells you something.

There were two women in these scenes. One made a choice of her own free will. One was forced to do something against her will. Anyone who thinks that being raped is better than choosing to stand and fight is either willfully choosing to be argumentative or truly ignorant. Either way, either option should make them and us very concerned.

[Marvell2100]

During the tree house rape scene they WERE vigillantes by the time the tree house rape scene occured. WHen you're a fugitive from the law wanted for murder, you stop being apart of the government authority.

They didn't have to kill the men to stop the rapes and they could have brought them to stand trial. No go on that one.

[Marvell2100]

partial list.

BLACKJACK - Alex Simmons & Various
CONCRETE PARK - Erika Alexander & Tony Puryear
GENIUS - Marc Bernardin & various
BLACK - Roye Okupe & Various
MIRANDA MERCURY - Brandon Thomas & Various
MOLLY DANGER -Jamal Igle
EXCELLENCE - Brandon Thomas, Khary Randolph & Emilio Lopez
MALIKA - Roye Okupe & various
DESTROYER - Victor LaValle & Dietrich Smith
NIOBE, SHE IS LIFE - Sebastian A Jones, Amandla Stenberg & Ashley A Woods
VINDICATORS (and lots of others) - Kevin Grevioux & Various
STORMBRINGERS - Korby Marks & various
VESCELL - Enrique Carrion & John Upchurch
BITTER ROOT - David Walker, Chuck Brown & Sanford Green
HORSEMEN- Jiba Molei Anderson

Thanks Redjack. I'll check my LCS and Amazon for these.

[Marvell2100]

partial list.

BLACKJACK - Alex Simmons & Various
CONCRETE PARK - Erika Alexander & Tony Puryear
GENIUS - Marc Bernardin & various
BLACK - Roye Okupe & Various
MIRANDA MERCURY - Brandon Thomas & Various
MOLLY DANGER -Jamal Igle
EXCELLENCE - Brandon Thomas, Khary Randolph & Emilio Lopez
MALIKA - Roye Okupe & various
DESTROYER - Victor LaValle & Dietrich Smith
NIOBE, SHE IS LIFE - Sebastian A Jones, Amandla Stenberg & Ashley A Woods
VINDICATORS (and lots of others) - Kevin Grevioux & Various
STORMBRINGERS - Korby Marks & various
VESCELL - Enrique Carrion & John Upchurch
BITTER ROOT - David Walker, Chuck Brown & Sanford Green
HORSEMEN- Jiba Molei Anderson

I do have the two in bold.

[XPac]

They didn't have to kill the men to stop the rapes and they could have brought them to stand trial. No go on that one.

Sure. No one is saying they HAD to kill the rapists. Just like no one says Punisher HAD to kill the people he kills. I'm not arguing they HAD to kill the rapists... what I am arguing is that they're not part of the government authority at that point in the story. They're fugitives wanted for doing exactly what they did at the treehouse... murder rapist. And wanted murderers typically don't go around calling the cops for help. That's fairly normal behavoir for criminals in general.

[Mr MajestiK]

Attilan
Asgard
Atlantis
Wakanda
Olympus
Latveria

All of the above fictional realms within the MU/MCU, have been portrayed going through all types of trials and tribulations as one would expect within the dynamic of the fantasy based bedrock that serves as their respective foundations.

Can anyone provide anything other than opinion, that illustrates rape camps being portrayed in any of these fictional locales other than Wakanda?

And if for arguments sake, no such evidence is presented herein, anyone currently posting in this thread, is more than welcome to explain why Wakanda is the only fictional locales that fell into such a chaotic state that Wakandan rape camps were seen as being an acceptable thing to explore within what used to be, one of the more progressive titles being published by Marvel.

[Mr MajestiK]

The life of the indie writer-artist.

Fred himself has apparently called it a mix of Indiana Jones and Final Fantasy.

Personally, I'd love to see his take on Wakanda... the man knows how to world-build. But I'm not sure he'd be right for an ongoing since his stories have a tendency to wander in some rather strange (if often interesting) directions. Consider this art:




Even without context (which would take far too long to explain) these shots are epic.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention... the first 199 issues of the book are online legally for free here:

Antarctic Press Library

It looks like it's time for me to check this title out again.

[XPac]

EZ, at this point some people are just arguing this isht for the sake of arguing. This really tells you something.

There were two women in these scenes. One made a choice of her own free will. One was forced to do something against her will. Anyone who thinks that being raped is better than choosing to stand and fight is either willfully choosing to be argumentative or truly ignorant. Either way, either option should make them and us very concerned.

Arguing whether suicide is worse or better than rape gets into a tricky area which I don't want to really get into specially if anyone on the board has had to deal with one or both. Saying one is better or worse comes off too insensitive.

But I will say that killing off Shuri means more than random girl never to be seen again about to be raped. No offense to random girl never to be seen again.. I certainly feel bad for her, and was glad the MA saved her. But I just have far more emotional investment in the Shuri character than I do random girl, so when something happens to her I genuinely do think it's a much bigger deal. Shuri has a bigger impact on me as a fan and a much bigger impact on the mythos as a whole which random girl never quite reached in the 2 or so pages she existed in.

[Marvell2100]

Sure. No one is saying they HAD to kill the rapists. Just like no one says Punisher HAD to kill the people he kills. I'm not arguing they HAD to kill the rapists... what I am arguing is that they're not part of the government authority at that point in the story. They're fugitives wanted for doing exactly what they did at the treehouse... murder rapist. And wanted murderers typically don't go around calling the cops for help. That's fairly normal behavoir for criminals in general.

The MA did not have to kill those men, they could have just turned them over, whether you consider them criminals or not. Just like how you keep saying that it was stupid for Shuri to stay behind in TRO, others are saying the actions of the MA were stupid. They didn't have to kill those men to stop the rapes.

That is the poor writing by Coates that so many point out yet you keep defending.