Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Ezyo1000]

The title is Black Panther, not T'Challa. It's true that BP has mainly been T'Challa, but it's a mantle which has been based to characters before, like Shuri and Kasper and many others in the past. All they need to do is pass the mantle in the MCU to another character, even in the MCU it's never been a sole title of T'Challa we've had T'Chaka on screen in that capacity. They have suitable replacements lined up, or they can make one. It's sad that Boseman's death has sidelined T'Challa and we don't know how they're going to play it until the sequel comes out. They could do anything, from body doubles and having T'Challa stay on the sidelines, like letting him decide someone else should take his duties as the Panther while he is king - which might buy time to eventually let the public get over the loss to let someone else be recast as T'Challa. But this is far from the end of Black Panther in the MCU.

That's like saying the title is Batman not bruce wayne, or Spiderman not Peter Parker, or Cap, or Ironman, Superman etc etc. T'Challa IS the Black Panther. The comics didn't start off by saying "A long line of BPs has been established in Wakanda, with the latest in the long line being T'Challa" from his creation by Lee and Kirby, T'Challa created the mantle. Priest had T'Challa as the first too. Hudlins run originally wasn't supposed to be in universe so he went a different approach, it was so popular it became canon so it got integrated. But let's not pretend that because the title doesn't say "T'Challa, The Black Panther" that it somehow makes T'Challa less legitimate to complete ownership to the mantle. It's his mantle. Straight up.

[Marvell2100]

The title is Black Panther, not T'Challa. It's true that BP has mainly been T'Challa, but it's a mantle which has been based to characters before, like Shuri and Kasper and many others in the past. All they need to do is pass the mantle in the MCU to another character, even in the MCU it's never been a sole title of T'Challa we've had T'Chaka on screen in that capacity. They have suitable replacements lined up, or they can make one. It's sad that Boseman's death has sidelined T'Challa and we don't know how they're going to play it until the sequel comes out. They could do anything, from body doubles and having T'Challa stay on the sidelines, like letting him decide someone else should take his duties as the Panther while he is king - which might buy time to eventually let the public get over the loss to let someone else be recast as T'Challa. But this is far from the end of Black Panther in the MCU.

And for over 50 years, we've known the Black Panther to be T'Challa. Once again, T'Challa isn't dead. And even when someone else took over the mantle, T'Challa was still alive.

This notion that no one can live up to Boseman's performance so T'Challa should be killed off is just so bogus. If anything, Boseman's performance should be inspiring other actors who would want to step into those shoes. Any actor afraid to do that doesn't believe in themselves.

Marvel Studios decision to "honor" Chadwick Boseman by not recasting the role of T'Challa is nothing more than them putting him away in a box and putting him in the back of the closet.

Once again, T'Challa is not dead.

[Marvell2100]

That's like saying the title is Batman not bruce wayne, or Spiderman not Peter Parker, or Cap, or Ironman, Superman etc etc. T'Challa IS the Black Panther. The comics didn't start off by saying "A long line of BPs has been established in Wakanda, with the latest in the long line being T'Challa" from his creation by Lee and Kirby, T'Challa created the mantle. Priest had T'Challa as the first too. Hudlins run originally wasn't supposed to be in universe so he went a different approach, it was so popular it became canon so it got integrated. But let's not pretend that because the title doesn't say "T'Challa, The Black Panther" that it somehow makes T'Challa less legitimate to complete ownership to the mantle. It's his mantle. Straight up.

So true. Who was the first BP introduced to the world? Who did so many fans grow up knowing? When Marvel launches a new BP title, who is most likely to be BP? T'Challa.

If Shuri didn't exist and we had the same situation, what would marvel have done? Recast. I'll say it again, T'Challa is not dead.

[Vanguard]

Yes Coogler admitted he had issues liking T'Challa at first because he seemed too perfect. Cant remember or find the video, but I know he admitted to learning to love him.

That sent me down the rabbit hole to find this video. Seen it before, but it illustrates here WHY Coogler did what he did with T'Challa. Because the Russos decided to make Civil War be the film his father dies and not something that happened already.

I didn’t get that he disliked TChalla much from that clip, just that he struggled with some part of the character. But if he isn’t a fan of the character, I agree he shouldn’t be handling him. But like I said, no TChalla in Bp2 means no go for me.

[Marvell2100]

This is so disingenuous argument. "Mainly" is underselling it big time.

- You have one story with Chonda.
- You have Flags of our Fathers with Azzuri (4 issues I think?)
- You have like one issue of Rise with T'chaka.
- A few issues of Killmonger panther
- You have Deadliest of the Species, Power, Doom War, and Klaws for Shuri. Those are the only 4 arcs where Shuri was in the habit and T'challa wasn't. Every other Shuri as panther story... T'challa was in panther habit as well because shuri panther didn't work

SINCE THE 60's!

People expand how much "other" panther stuff there is for no real reason. There are probably more issues of non-thor Thor stories than Panther at this point. Hell, Jane Foster alone has more issues than every other panther combined and no one is out there going, "you know what, the title of thor is just a mantle which has been based on characters before."

Shuri's "reign" in real life time seems really long because there was a big ass gap where Black Panther didn't have any books. in actual comic time, it was short as hell. I think the distance between Deadliest of the Species to Klaws in less than two years.

This is just another example of people being "wakanda" fans which is what lead to Disney's decision. They think there are enough of you to deal with not having T'challa. We will see.

Another point to make. T'Challa was alive during 99.1% of the times he didn't have the mantle.

If they think Black Panther II: World of Wakanda is going to be the same without T'Challa then they are fooling themselves. Everyone knows that they aren't recasting so what's the draw?

Is anyone going to pay money to see Thor: Tales of Asgard when they know that Thor won't be in the movie?

[Ezyo1000]

So true. Who was the first BP introduced to the world? Who did so many fans grow up knowing? When Marvel launches a new BP title, who is most likely to be BP? T'Challa.

If Shuri didn't exist and we had the same situation, what would marvel have done? Recast. I'll say it again, T'Challa is not dead.

See this goes back to my complaint weeks ago about how I wish Shuri went her own path all together. Maybe then there would be less ideas that T'Challa can be sidelined. But still like you said, T'Challa ain't dead. Disney would be foolish to kill T'Challa a 3rd time like Mike murdock said, it would complicate to so much and make a huge mess of the everything because you can't address that and move on because of the time line and how things went down. The sequel could be a prequel, again the two year gap between BP 1 and IW, that explores that timez but I just don't see how this will draw anybody in to the movie without T'Challa. Wakanda isn't even close to being big enough to stand on its own without it's title character. And really he is the one that Makes it interesting

[Steel Inquisitor]

That's like saying the title is Batman not bruce wayne, or Spiderman not Peter Parker, or Cap, or Ironman, Superman etc etc. T'Challa IS the Black Panther. The comics didn't start off by saying "A long line of BPs has been established in Wakanda, with the latest in the long line being T'Challa" from his creation by Lee and Kirby, T'Challa created the mantle. Priest had T'Challa as the first too. Hudlins run originally wasn't supposed to be in universe so he went a different approach, it was so popular it became canon so it got integrated. But let's not pretend that because the title doesn't say "T'Challa, The Black Panther" that it somehow makes T'Challa less legitimate to complete ownership to the mantle. It's his mantle. Straight up.

This includes Batman, and all those other heroes. It's true T'Challa is the primary face for the franchise, and is a big draw but the movie put BP in a good position to move onto someone else, he's not entrenched with the public as the identity of BP like comic fans are and none of them have ben forced into the same circumstance as Boseman. The only person I can think of who did that was Ledgwer with Joker, and Joker was sidelined in the Dark Knight Rises for the same reasons. This isn't the comics, this is the movies. None of that matters to the public, and that wouldn't stop Marvel replacing T'Challa in the comics, either. Priest in fact did that in his run, and so did Hudlin. I'm not saying T'Challa inset legitimate, I'm saying the entire concept is built around BP being a legacy mantle, which the movies continued. None of these characters have complete ownership of this mantles, that's why they're mantles. T'Challa's been replaced many times so the movie will do this eventually, like they're doing with other heroes. The MCU is on its second generation and entering its third, Steve Rogers isn't Captain America any longer, that's now Sam Wilson. Hawkeye and Black Widow are transitioning to successors.

[Steel Inquisitor]

And for over 50 years, we've known the Black Panther to be T'Challa. Once again, T'Challa isn't dead. And even when someone else took over the mantle, T'Challa was still alive.

This notion that no one can live up to Boseman's performance so T'Challa should be killed off is just so bogus. If anything, Boseman's performance should be inspiring other actors who would want to step into those shoes. Any actor afraid to do that doesn't believe in themselves.

Marvel Studios decision to "honor" Chadwick Boseman by not recasting the role of T'Challa is nothing more than them putting him away in a box and putting him in the back of the closet.

Once again, T'Challa is not dead.[/COLOR]

This ignores that in those 50 years many others have been Black panther in the comics. T'Chaka, Shuri, and Kasper. But they still took over the mantle, it didn't stop being a thing when T'Challa wasn't in it. T'Challa himself was Daredevil for a while.

I'd prefer they recast but Marvel's heavily implying T'Challa's journey as BP won't be front and centre any longer because they feel it would be disrespectful. This isn't about "should" it's about "is."

Nobody knows T'Challa's status quo in the MCU right now, but we do know the chances of him having a successor picking up the mantle is far more likely since they're not burning the movie franchise and T'Challa can;'t be the focus any longer with Boseman to them. T'Challa doesn't have to be dead to do this.

[Shadey]

Speaking for myself this has not only killed all my excitement for BP 2 (which I will not be watching or at least paying to watch now) but also all of the other MCU shows and movies. This has really left a terrible taste in my mouth that I can't even look forward to Blade, Riri ect.

[Dboi654]

This includes Batman, and all those other heroes. It's true T'Challa is the primary face for the franchise, and is a big draw but the movie put BP in a good position to move onto someone else, he's not entrenched with the public as the identity of BP like comic fans are and none of them have ben forced into the same circumstance as Boseman. The only person I can think of who did that was Ledgwer with Joker, and Joker was sidelined in the Dark Knight Rises for the same reasons. This isn't the comics, this is the movies. None of that matters to the public, and that wouldn't stop Marvel replacing T'Challa in the comics, either. Priest in fact did that in his run, and so did Hudlin. I'm not saying T'Challa inset legitimate, I'm saying the entire concept is built around BP being a legacy mantle, which the movies continued. None of these characters have complete ownership of this mantles, that's why they're mantles. T'Challa's been replaced many times so the movie will do this eventually, like they're doing with other heroes. The MCU is on its second generation and entering its third, Steve Rogers isn't Captain America any longer, that's now Sam Wilson. Hawkeye and Black Widow are transitioning to successors.

Many times?

[Blind Wedjat]

This ignores that in those 50 years many others have been Black panther in the comics. T'Chaka, Shuri, and Kasper. But they still took over the mantle, it didn't stop being a thing when T'Challa wasn't in it. T'Challa himself was Daredevil for a while.

It's still not the same thing. T'Chaka never had an entire comic book run dedicated to himself. He's always been a plot device and supporting character to T'Challa's origin story. His entire character exploration is that he is assassinated when T'Challa is young and that starts the process of T'Challa becoming king and Black Panther.

Same goes for Kasper. It was a limited time he was imitating T'Challa for plot reasons. Kasper never had his own comic book.

Shuri is the only one that kinda makes sense. Her tenure as Black Panther in publication years is a lot longer than T'Chaka or Kasper's. She was also given the mantle when T'Challa was temporarily indisposed. T'Challa was however brought back and both of them were Black Panther with Shuri being Wakanda's queen and T'Challa being 'King of the Dead'. She was later 'killed' in Time Runs Out and that was the last time she was Black Panther. In publication years she had the mantle foyr about 4-5 years. For 3-4 of those years, T'Challa was also Black Panther. She's also had her own limited series but not as the Black Panther either.

So yes, for more than 50 years T'Challa has commonly been the Black Panther. You're making it sound more like it's been a Green Lantern or Ghost Rider situation, which it hasn't been.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

This is where I disagree, big time.

Black panther has been "T'challa" since the inception. They didnt' call the comic books, movies, or cartoons "Wakanda" for a reason.

The one issue and its actually been validated by posts here for years...

T'Challa wasnt really as loved until Priest. There are people who are mixed on Hudlin's run and hate Coates (for whatever reason).

So the love for T'Challa based on comic to history ratio isnt the same as those other legendary characters. Its why its so much easier for Disney to do without at least for the time being. Its also why casual fans are more accepting.

The urgency just isnt there to replace/recast T'Challa yet. If the sequel doesnt do as well then maybe. As of now they feel no need to rush a recast.

[Blind Wedjat]

Many times?

He's only been replaced once by Shuri. T'Chaka is just his predecessor and Kasper was being used as a pawn. "Many times" is seriously a stretch.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

My question is why does Marvel keep letting people that don't like the character write stories for the character. They clearly don't have an understanding of the character.

MCU T'Challa development was very different from the Comics? Why are you mad at Coogler for making his character make sense? 10 steps ahead T'Challa had years of hard decision making that allowed him to grow into that T'Challa. Based on how Disney/Russos started his development it made the most sense for T'Challa.

They are/were actually creating a 3 movie arc for the character. Characters being perfect renditions in the 1st film are boring and doesnt allow for as much growth anyway.

[Ezyo1000]

This includes Batman, and all those other heroes. It's true T'Challa is the primary face for the franchise, and is a big draw but the movie put BP in a good position to move onto someone else, he's not entrenched with the public as the identity of BP like comic fans are and none of them have ben forced into the same circumstance as Boseman. The only person I can think of who did that was Ledgwer with Joker, and Joker was sidelined in the Dark Knight Rises for the same reasons. This isn't the comics, this is the movies. None of that matters to the public, and that wouldn't stop Marvel replacing T'Challa in the comics, either. Priest in fact did that in his run, and so did Hudlin. I'm not saying T'Challa inset legitimate, I'm saying the entire concept is built around BP being a legacy mantle, which the movies continued. None of these characters have complete ownership of this mantles, that's why they're mantles. T'Challa's been replaced many times so the movie will do this eventually, like they're doing with other heroes. The MCU is on its second generation and entering its third, Steve Rogers isn't Captain America any longer, that's now Sam Wilson. Hawkeye and Black Widow are transitioning to successors.

T'Challa has been "replaced" once. Kasper wasn't actually the Black Panther officially. He led the series but he wasn't actutthe Black Panther. Shuri took the mantle and held it Solo for 2 years or so then she shared it with T'Challa but she was Queen for under a decade before she gave it back and died in TRO. The keyword here is eventually as it the movies will move on until a reboot. T'Challas story is far from over.

Ledger is is used as an example but I'd bale passed away they either would of stopped that trilogy or recast Batman. Then later on started another Batman movie. I guarantee you they would not of made a Gotham movie. Wakanda, Shuri, Okoye, Nakia, M'Baku, none of them are established enough to carry their own movie.

People clamoring for these things have to remember that in order to be a lead in a movie it's more then stealing the spot light in scenes and having an overall presence of under 10 minutes. You have to carry the movie, have the dimensions to do so, have the lore to draw off, carry multiple hats and drive the movie where it needs to go all the while having the heroes journey or character arc from start to finish.

They don't have that. They have a niche that was mostly in conjunction when they were in scenes with T'Challa and he brought those to the surface. That's the difference between being the lead and the supporting cast and I'll say they are definitely just that. Support to uplift the title character. That character IS T'Challa. Sam taking over the shield had been after he was around for Cap 2, CW, showed up in ant man, had a small presence in IW and EG it wasn't one showing then him trying to take the shield. It doesn't work that way