Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[XPac]

I'm telling you, if this were an A-list non-black hero this would not even be a discussion, at least not to this degree. If Robert Pattison died before being able to complete The Batman 2, there wouldn't be a huge clamoring for Robin to take the role (assuming he was introduced prior). If Jason Mamoa had to pull out of Aquaman few would be calling for Kaldur or Ocean Master to take his place. If Tom Holland was paralyzed people couldn't be demanding that Miles take the role and completely write out Peter.

Because people have a firm understanding of the fact that those characters transcend individual actors and that they're too iconic to have their cinematic stories left incomplete. But for many comic fans with a weak understanding of the character, T'Challa and his story as interchangeable with Shuri, Killmonger, Nakia, Okoye, and Kaspar Cole's.

Honestly I think it depends on the character. I wouldn't think they would go that route with say Starlord or Dr. Strange. They would just recast.

But If Chris Evans died after Winter Soldier, I do believe there would be some discussion of having Bucky or Sam take over the shield. Because it was done in the comics, it becomes an option which at least deserves to be in the discussion.

And I'd say the same thing for Captain Marvel. If Brie died, I think there would be some conversation over having the young Monica we saw in Captain Marvel become her sucessor.

I'm frankly expecting Jane to take over Thors place and he's not even gone yet. That's the sort of thing that comes about when you incorparate a legacy character in the story. It's suddenly this potential option. We KNOW deep down it'll never happen in the comics... but because movies are a different medium where the status quo can change, it's taken a lot more seriously.

[dkrook]

Focus on what Themes were set up in the first movie. Show how (recasted) T'Challa deals with the fallouts of IW, opening up the world, other super powers and the invasion of Wakanda (probably the first time They were invaded) and what happens when their king and BP, and head of the WDG got snapped. I have said multiple times what I think would be best and it's not retiring T'Challa on some "honoring" Chadwick BS. Because he set the foundation, like Priest did in the comics and inspired million's and I bet there are some who want to continue the legacy and inspire million's as I think when you get into the acting business, especially the superhero genre, that's the goal ultimately.

I also agree with yours and others opinions, and hope that Coogler continues the path for T'challa as ruler coping with changes in his immediate world as hero and king.

[Marvell2100]

I get that. The only thing on the horizon for black women is the *rumor* of Riri showing up....somewhere, sometime, probably a few years from now at the earliest. Not much to inspire confidence. Black women desperately need and deserve more representation than they're getting; they rarely even get to be the "black sidekick." And this is a problem everywhere; hell the game Overwatch, which prides itself on its diverse cast, has been around for four years, has over thirty characters, and the first playable black woman isn't gonna arrive until the sequel, which doesn't even have a release date yet. I don't begrudge the folks saying that Shuri should take over for T'Challa, you take what you can get. I don't really agree with the notion but I get where it's coming from.

But I disagree with the notion that characters like Spectrum and Storm have zero-to-little chance of larger media solo adaptations. The MCU was *built* on B-list heroes and have turned D-list characters like Ant-Man and the Guardians of the Galaxy into household names. It's really not as unlikely as people seem to think it is that other characters like Misty or Monica could find their way into projects of their own. I mean, who the hell expected them to announce Moon Knight last year? You never know who the MCU will throw at you next.

And has anyone even mentioned the possibility of a Shuri solo project where she *doesn't* have to dress up like her brother? Shuri was popular enough that she doesn't need the Panther mantle to be successful.

And my point remains that we shouldn't be fighting over the table scraps of one franchise. We should be united in demanding more than one black lead hero from Marvel, not fighting among ourselves over who gets the unenviable task of filling king Chadwick's sneak-ers.

I mentioned earlier that Shuri led show would be a great idea for Disney+. I also agree that there are viable Black Female characters for the MCU. It doesn't have to be a movie and again, Disney+ plus is a viable platform to do a series Like Daughters of the Dragon, Moon Girl or Ironheart.

Shuri is well established enough that she can make it on her own merits.

[XPac]

I get that. The only thing on the horizon for black women is the *rumor* of Riri showing up....somewhere, sometime, probably a few years from now at the earliest. Not much to inspire confidence. Black women desperately need and deserve more representation than they're getting; they rarely even get to be the "black sidekick." And this is a problem everywhere; hell the game Overwatch, which prides itself on its diverse cast, has been around for four years, has over thirty characters, and the first playable black woman isn't gonna arrive until the sequel, which doesn't even have a release date yet. I don't begrudge the folks saying that Shuri should take over for T'Challa, you take what you can get. I don't really agree with the notion but I get where it's coming from.

But I disagree with the notion that characters like Spectrum and Storm have zero-to-little chance of larger media solo adaptations. The MCU was *built* on B-list heroes and have turned D-list characters like Ant-Man and the Guardians of the Galaxy into household names. It's really not as unlikely as people seem to think it is that other characters like Misty or Monica could find their way into projects of their own. I mean, who the hell expected them to announce Moon Knight last year? You never know who the MCU will throw at you next.

And has anyone even mentioned the possibility of a Shuri solo project where she *doesn't* have to dress up like her brother? Shuri was popular enough that she doesn't need the Panther mantle to be successful.

And my point remains that we shouldn't be fighting over the table scraps of one franchise. We should be united in demanding more than one black lead hero from Marvel, not fighting among ourselves over who gets the unenviable task of filling king Chadwick's sneak-ers.

I've made that arguement to before before... and it basically translated to mean "wait your turn" to the people on the receiving end. If people are starving they will fight over table scraps. If you have nothing, you will fight over anything you can get.

The thing about pushing Shuri to be BP is that it's fighting for an tangible achievable thing that actually exists. If given the choice of channeling your energy to Shuri (who arguably has a 50/50 shot at being BP) as opposed to a Misty Knight movie that doesn't even exist at the moment, most people will do the former over the later. THey will fight for that, because presently that's all they have.

If marvel were to give them HOPE of more, things might be different. If they announce a Wakandan TV show or a Daughters of the Dragon, then it's entirely possible peoples energies will be focsed on that instead. But if literally nothing else is being presented, then anything other than Shuri right now is effectively the equivalent of screaming into the void. It's like campeigning for the Green Party presidential nominee in the next election... with all due respect to the Green Party your directing your energies at something which probably won't yield any tangible results. But as of now Shuri in the BP2 movie the only thing giving them any hope in this regard, so that's what they will champion until something changes.

[skyvolt2000]

You're point was clear, IMO. Why should black boys have to reach back in time to heroes who aren't currently on the screen, but black girls get current interpretations and counting? For the few in the back with reading comprehension problems, you me and others aren't saying black women shouldn't continue to have such interpretations, but it should be in addition to black male interpretations not instead of. There has been no "golden age" where black men reigned supreme in fiction now its black women's turn, which seems to be implication.

THANK YOU......

The battle we are seeing is a battle of "you can get with this or you can get with that" conversation.

Why can't you answer the question? the viewing audience, black boys, girls, men and women don't lose anything...either way if Storm is traded out of Prodigy in the MCU.

You want to discard the only black male hero in order to push a female black hero. That is what that means

THIS

We saw this with Creed-calls for Creed to go and make Creed 2 about his WIFE.
Get rid of Lucas on Stranger Things and replace him with his sister.

When In see who leads those calls-I see the AGENDA.

And I think the people pushing for a black female lead feel the same way.

Which is FINE. However cancelling Miles or other black males is not going to cut it. We want Miles, Panther, Cage, Falcon AND Storm, Shuri, Riri, Misty, Monica AND Prodigy.

Where are all then Storm fans? She is one of the most known black female characters out there and has been around for decade's. Where's her push to get her own movie ( instead of trying t hamfist her into the BP movie like people suggested)?
And, here's what's also important, spinoff Shuri into her own franchise.

What you are asking for it too much like work.

That is what is missing-there was no Priest who went through heck and back to build up a black female solo. No black female got the Carol Danvers treatment of nonstop restarts.

Excluding Moon Girl and Princeless and even Goldie Vance at Boom-no black female has seen the development of her black male counterparts.

Who has been MIA??? Black female creators.

How many black female writers who worked at the big two can we name? 6?

[chief12d]

Honestly I think it depends on the character. I wouldn't think they would go that route with say Starlord or Dr. Strange. They would just recast.

But If Chris Evans died after Winter Soldier, I do believe there would be some discussion of having Bucky or Sam take over the shield. Because it was done in the comics, it becomes an option which at least deserves to be in the discussion.

And I'd say the same thing for Captain Marvel. If Brie died, I think there would be some conversation over having the young Monica we saw in Captain Marvel become her sucessor.

I'm frankly expecting Jane to take over Thors place and he's not even gone yet. That's the sort of thing that comes about when you incorparate a legacy character in the story. It's suddenly this potential option. We KNOW deep down it'll never happen in the comics... but because movies are a different medium where the status quo can change, it's taken a lot more seriously.

Of course it depends on the character when the topic of discussion is a black hero losing the biggest opportunity of his existence to his little sister. Brother Voodoo has been Sorcerer Supreme before, if Benedict Cumberbatch met an untimely end, why can't another powerful mage take on the franchise? Starlord doesn't have a legacy character but if his actor passed, why can't a heavily modified Nova take his place? They're basically brothers in the comics anyway.

I can give you Captain Marvel, but she's not a hero, she's a heroine and thus in a similar boat to T'Challa regarding people's willingness to replace them. And all these characters don't even begin to touch juggernauts like Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman. Would there be intense campaigns for those characters to get replaced less than 20% into their stories by legacy character?

And I think you have more faith in this conversation than I do. Disney would sooner recast or CGI Steve Rogers than have Bucky or Falcon take on the mantle at the junctions they were at in the beginning of Winter Soldier. Even though it would require rewrites, would it be considered? Obviously, but would there be what amounts to a campaign on social media and in major publications for them to take on the mantle? Probably not and that's my issue. This "his legacy must be honored by erasing his character" energy seems to only be reserved for T'Challa when with different characters (AKA white males) that wouldn't be a lot of people's first thought.

Jane is in an entirely different category than what I'm talking about. Thor's story is more or less complete and he could've been killed off in Endgame without much issue. That he gets to coexist alongside his legacy is a testament to how he and his world have been fleshed out and expanded to the point it can support him and a successor. Shuri taking the mantle represents T'Challa slowly but surely becoming a footnote in her journey. A motivating factor for her as she becomes the Black Panther for years to come, rather than the multifaceted character positioned to be at the forefront of the MCU.

[Ekie]

The thing is, you wouldn't make her Black Panther if she's only supporting cast. IF they give her the mantle and put her on the throne, then she becomes the main charcter.

Which isn't to say they need to make her BLack Panther. But the point being IF they do, they will and should go all in with her. The Black Panther should be the main character of the Black Panther movies, whether it's T'Challa or Shuir or Kasper Cole or Killmonger or whatever.

She doesn't become the main character. It doesn't work like that. If you out Batgirl in the place of Batman then shes still living in Batman's world. In his shadow as an ancillary character thrust into the spotlight wall people ask where the main guy is.

T'challa is the main god. Wakanda and everything else about it is ancillary to him

[XPac]

She doesn't become the main character. It doesn't work like that. If you out Batgirl in the place of Batman then shes still living in Batman's world. In his shadow as an ancillary character thrust into the spotlight wall people ask where the main guy is.

T'challa is the main god. Wakanda and everything else about it is ancillary to him

We'll see. We're getting a Falcon/Winter Solider TV series pretty soon and I honestly don't believe that Steve Rogers will be the main character despite everything about Bucky and Sam being anchillary to him. We'll also see who the actual main characer is in Thor: Blood and Thunder.

I think this is where comics and movies differ. Things can change.

[Cville]

I would either make M'Baku BP through challenge day or have some Killmonger supporters use the resurrection alter to bring him back(add challenge day), but because he's been dead for years and living with the ancestors, he's softened his ideas and wants to make Tchallas' vision work, struggling to do so in the process.

The backdrop would be that Tchalla died of the Priest aneurysm in his sleep.

[Ekie]

Or....Coogler does what he does best...and the image and iconography and the message lives on and little Black Boys (and little Black girls... because not only boys and men went to see the film or were moved by it) still have their hero.
Nothing positive of the first movie's impact is suddenly lost or erradicated. Absolutely Nothing.
Also... consider the positive impact and message of having a female lead. That little Black Boys...and little Black girls see that our women are strong, and capable, and powerful, and to be honoured and revered, and are just as important and necessary to uphold our pride and legacy. Isn't that also a message worth exploring, worth sending?

Experiment with another franchise. T'challa deserves his franchise he is Black Panther. It's not just a mantle it's him. Same with Thor. Playing with Batman. Same with Spider-Man. the difference is those last three got to do their thing for years and years before people try to steal their franchise away from them at the first opportunity they found

[Devaishwarya]

Question:

What is T'Challa and Wakanda's status now, post Empyre? Did anything ominous happen as was teased in the trailer?

[XPac]

Of course it depends on the character when the topic of discussion is a black hero losing the biggest opportunity of his existence to his little sister. Brother Voodoo has been Sorcerer Supreme before, if Benedict Cumberbatch met an untimely end, why can't another powerful mage take on the franchise? Starlord doesn't have a legacy character but if his actor passed, why can't a heavily modified Nova take his place? They're basically brothers in the comics anyway.

I can give you Captain Marvel, but she's not a hero, she's a heroine and thus in a similar boat to T'Challa regarding people's willingness to replace them. And all these characters don't even begin to touch juggernauts like Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman. Would there be intense campaigns for those characters to get replaced less than 20% into their stories by legacy character?

And I think you have more faith in this conversation than I do. Disney would sooner recast or CGI Steve Rogers than have Bucky or Falcon take on the mantle at the junctions they were at in the beginning of Winter Soldier. Even though it would require rewrites, would it be considered? Obviously, but would there be what amounts to a campaign on social media and in major publications for them to take on the mantle? Probably not and that's my issue. This "his legacy must be honored by erasing his character" energy seems to only be reserved for T'Challa when with different characters (AKA white males) that wouldn't be a lot of people's first thought.

Jane is in an entirely different category than what I'm talking about. Thor's story is more or less complete and he could've been killed off in Endgame without much issue. That he gets to coexist alongside his legacy is a testament to how he and his world have been fleshed out and expanded to the point it can support him and a successor. Shuri taking the mantle represents T'Challa slowly but surely becoming a footnote in her journey. A motivating factor for her as she becomes the Black Panther for years to come, rather than the multifaceted character positioned to be at the forefront of the MCU.

If Brother Voodoo debuted in the Dr. Strange movie, I would put him in the same category as Captain Marvel and Steve Rogers. Incorporate a legacy character into the narrative, and replacing the origional at least becomes a part of the conversation. Though I suppose they could just make Baron Mordu Dr. Voodoo if they wanted to and have him take over. That kind of works.

I do agree that the "his legacy must be honored" notion likely would be reserved for Boseman (and maybe RDJ). I don't think Chris Evans, as good as he is, necessarily would incite that same reaction. And no disrespect but I'm darn sure Brie Larsen wouldn't. For a variety of reasons Boseman the actor and T'Challa the character are unique... and dealing with that one way or the other would like require a bit more sensitivity than most other heroes. To be blunt, swapping out most other actors from roles probably wouldn't matter as much.

BUt certainly the arguement of Thors story being complete is valid. If Coogler feels there's more T'Challa story to tell then he'll recast T'Challa and that will be that. Shuri will only take the habit if Coogler decides he's ready to move on and transition to her. Like I've said a bunch of times, Coogler will do what Coogler wants to do. Not everyone will get what they want... but those that don't will get over it and move on eventually.

[MindofShadow]

Question:

What is T'Challa and Wakanda's status now, post Empyre? Did anything ominous happen as was teased in the trailer?

T'challa killed Swordsman dude and destroyed the death seed.

Wakanda is fine and T'challa was one of hte main heroes of that particular storyline.

Some stuff happened in space and Reed did something but TBH, I skimme dthat part bc it was boring as hell and I didn't care lol

[XPac]

I would either make M'Baku BP through challenge day or have some Killmonger supporters use the resurrection alter to bring him back(add challenge day), but because he's been dead for years and living with the ancestors, he's softened his ideas and wants to make Tchallas' vision work, struggling to do so in the process.

The backdrop would be that Tchalla died of the Priest aneurysm in his sleep.

I'll be honest ... of all the options actually find the resurrected redeemed Killmonger becoming BP the most interesting.

I wouldn't objectively call it the BEST option as it makes no sense whatsoever on a variety of levels. But in some abstract way Jordan taking over the role from Boseman somehow feels right... or at least less weird. Maybe I just feel that way because he's already in the franchise, but I think it would somehow feel more acceptable. Even though again, character wise it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

It would be a weird and interesting way to go.

[Devaishwarya]

T'challa killed Swordsman dude and destroyed the death seed.

Wakanda is fine and T'challa was one of hte main heroes of that particular storyline.

Some stuff happened in space and Reed did something but TBH, I skimme dthat part bc it was boring as hell and I didn't care lol

Coolz.
So T'Challa is alive and well and Wakanda is still standing...ready and waiting for a good writer.
Good to know, thanks.

2021 needs tuh hurry up an' get here.