Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[DigiCom]

HBut as far as poorly written... yeah, there's lots of little things here and there. Most of it excusable, but not what I would consider good writing. If he's going to call for help against an intergalactic invasion, he should obviously contact the Avengers rather than a pick up team with some of his friends who aren't necessarily well suite for fighting an alien invasion. He's the freaking leader of the Avengers so it's just common sense. But if he wants to use a couple minority charactrs who frankly aren't getting any spotlight these days, more power to him.

Really you can nit pick any story if want. See Wakanda and Die is my favorite BP story of all time, but I still find it silly Storm does nothing but fight with a spear or a knife. BUt I get why its done and I love the story overall, so no real harm done. Really it takes a lot to REALLY bother me. Shuri basically committing Suicide in Time Runs Out and T'CHalla leaving her to die for example... that was inexcusible. Most other stuff I can just shrug off if I like the story enough.

Is any of Coates' work inexcusable? I'm honestly curious to hear your view.

[XPac]

Is any of Coates' work inexcusable? I'm honestly curious to hear your view.

No. For it to be inexcusible you'd have to kill someone off or something to that effect. Stuff like Storm beating the bad guy or T'Challa using Eden instead of Shadow Physics to teleport isn't something I'll lose sleep over.

Again, looking at all the modern BP runs since Priest, the ONLY inexcusible thing I can think of was the scene with Shuri and T'Challa in Time Runs Out (if that even counts as a BP run). Most other issues I may have had in any of the books are just nit picks.

[DigiCom]

No. For it to be inexcusible you'd have to kill someone off or something to that effect. Stuff like Storm beating the bad guy or T'Challa using Eden instead of Shadow Physics to teleport isn't something I'll lose sleep over.

Thank you. Now I have a baseline.

[XPac]

Thank you. Now I have a baseline.

Just for comparative purposes so you have a cleaer understanding of my baseline, I was more mad that Hudlin had Morlun (a non BP villain never to be seen again) killed off Zuri, M'Baku and W'Kabi than anything Coates has done. Not that I didn't love the story overall... I think Deadliest of the Species is one of the most underrated BP stories of all time, but the needless death of like 80% of the male members of BP's supporting cast is something that is at least CLOSE to inexcusible. That said, I liked the story so much I ended up excusing it.

Edit: Another inexcusible BP related thing was that horrible retcon (which I think was retconned away) where BP as a teenager ended up banging a 12 year old Storm. I really didn't need to know that.

[butterflykyss]

No. For it to be inexcusible you'd have to kill someone off or something to that effect. Stuff like Storm beating the bad guy or T'Challa using Eden instead of Shadow Physics to teleport isn't something I'll lose sleep over.

Again, looking at all the modern BP runs since Priest, the ONLY inexcusible thing I can think of was the scene with Shuri and T'Challa in Time Runs Out (if that even counts as a BP run). Most other issues I may have had in any of the books are just nit picks.

you better say all of this truth
#wakandaforever

Just for comparative purposes so you have a cleaer understanding of my baseline, I was more mad that Hudlin had Morlun (a non BP villain never to be seen again) killed off Zuri, M'Baku and W'Kabi than anything Coates has done. Not that I didn't love the story overall... I think Deadliest of the Species is one of the most underrated BP stories of all time, but the needless death of like 80% of the male members of BP's supporting cast is something that is at least CLOSE to inexcusible. That said, I liked the story so much I ended up excusing it.

Edit: Another inexcusible BP related thing was that horrible retcon (which I think was retconned away) where BP as a teenager ended up banging a 12 year old Storm. I really didn't need to know that.

you're seriously one of my favorite posters!

just fyi that awful retcon of the underage sex was retconned back to the original storyline so we are all good again.

I just find it so interesting how much coates is taken to task but the things you mentioned (which by the way I haven't read but based on your description is by far worse than anything I've seen said against Coates) isnt mentioned at all? Very odd indeed. Nevertheless, I'm totally aligned with your analysis here.

[Marvell2100]

Coates slow-killed T'Challa for 3+ years.

It was an ugly death, filled with nonsense.

[Mr MajestiK]

you better say all of this truth
#wakandaforever



you're seriously one of my favorite posters!

just fyi that awful retcon of the underage sex was retconned back to the original storyline so we are all good again.

I just find it so interesting how much coates is taken to task but the things you mentioned (which by the way I haven't read but based on your description is by far worse than anything I've seen said against Coates) isnt mentioned at all? Very odd indeed. Nevertheless, I'm totally aligned with your analysis here.

Considering the fact that as you've admitted, your knowledge of BP lore in its entirety, is sporadic to non-existant, you're the last person who should be passing meaningful commentary on said lore in this thread.

Coates is literally the worst writer bar none of I have ever written anything BP related and the day he's finally gone from the mythos alongside all of his worthless retcons, will be a very good day.

Coates much like any other writer who's taken liberties with the BP mythos over the years, gets called out in the regular in here because he's that bad of a writer.

With the exception of one or at the most, two people posting in this thread, 97% of the readers posting herein, recognise Coates for the wilfully destructive individual that he's been as regards his complete and utter derailment of the BP solo for close to four years now.

But for readers like yourself, he gets high praise for using T'Challa's SOLO book as a platform to elevate Storm, a character that has been rendered irrelevant and without overarching agency over in the X-Verse for so many years post AvX.

An X-Verse which for all intents and purposes has now become quite supremacist to levels rarely before seen outside of Hydra.

To be quite honest, in the aftermath of what's been going on in the X-books as well as X-Men/FF #1, Storm's mutant supremacist self really has no business taking up space within the BP solo or further involvement with the BP mythos moving forward.

It's funny how you personally complain about Storm being written out of character in X-books and then come over here to dismiss the concerns of Black Panther enthusiasts who understand the characters importance and remain thoroughly informed as to his characterization and traits, dating back to his creation in 1966.

We get the BP mythos chapter and verse in here because practically all of us regardless of age, ethnicity, gender or orientation, are genuine appreciators of T'Challa's pedigree as well as the uniqueness of his origins.

We don't need or expect any writer to elevate T'Challa to faux godhood especially in someone else's book or another franchise.

All we require is for T'Challa to he written in character and for his actual supporting cast to equally be portrayed in their pre-Coates derailment agenda, glory.

It's really that simple.

Coates should try pushing that Rape Camp trope over in the X-Verse and see how far he gets with that before being shut down with the quickness, but according to you, he's written nothing on par with Jerome Dickey's unnecessary retcon of T'Challa and Ororo's teenage years.

How disingenuous.

So in closing, feel free to come in here, praising whomsoever you choose to, in the full knowledge that the actual BP enthusiasts posting in here, are very clear as to what you're doing and why.

Most of us aren't on that goalpost moving, mental gymnastics process of disinformation favoured by a distinct minority of posters in this thread.

[Mr MajestiK]

Coates slow-killed T'Challa for 3+ years.

It was an ugly death, filled with nonsense.

But we can be assured that in Coates eventual departure, all of the nonsense he brought with him, will he erased.

[Mr MajestiK]

Just for comparative purposes so you have a cleaer understanding of my baseline, I was more mad that Hudlin had Morlun (a non BP villain never to be seen again) killed off Zuri, M'Baku and W'Kabi than anything Coates has done. Not that I didn't love the story overall... I think Deadliest of the Species is one of the most underrated BP stories of all time, but the needless death of like 80% of the male members of BP's supporting cast is something that is at least CLOSE to inexcusible. That said, I liked the story so much I ended up excusing it.

Edit: Another inexcusible BP related thing was that horrible retcon (which I think was retconned away) where BP as a teenager ended up banging a 12 year old Storm. I really didn't need to know that.

But Rape Camps in Wakanda are just fine and dandy with you yes?

[Ezyo1000]

Except T'Challa doens't put villains down anymore than most other heroes do. Man Ape gets captured and escapes just like any other villain in the MU, because that's how it pretty much has to work. Yes, Killmonger and Man Ape were both killed by it wasn't by T'Challa. When Man Ape is beaten he usually gets the same "punishment" the Midnight Angels got... he gets to chill in the Jabari lands. If nothing else, T'Challa is consistant with his verdicts.

And yes, in theory helping T'Challa againt the People might very well help win over T'CHallas favor. But given they were enemies with the Wakandan government at the time, it was a risky move and since they ended up getting their indepenence anyways that would have been an unecessary risk.

what about Solomon prey? King cadaver Baron macrebe? Are they getting out of jail every Tuesday?

They said they wanted to protect the Wakandan people, sane as T'Challa, so no it would of been smart to help. T'Challa is far more reasonable than Tetu. They knew the truth about him too. The only reason it worked on their favor was PoS

[Mr MajestiK]

what about Solomon prey? King cadaver Baron macrebe? Are they getting out of jail every Tuesday?

They said they wanted to protect the Wakandan people, sane as T'Challa, so no it would of been smart to help. T'Challa is far more reasonable than Tetu. They knew the truth about him too. The only reason it worked on their favor was PoS

The Plot initiated stupidity presented by a thoroughly negative writer devoid of imagination.

Debating this issue with the wilfully obtuse is just a waste of time and has been for quite awhile now.

You've got individuals commenting in here, who mostly formed opinions on the BP Mythos just off of selectively posted scans, and then just ran with the misrepresentation and stayed running with false news faster than Quicksilver/Northstar.

Worst still, you've got some who cite Jason Aaron's "See Wakanda & Die" as their favourite BP outing, go on to praise David Liss's run as being the "best after Priest" which for all its excellence, still featured a depowered T'Challa on the millionth quest to "find himself" on some ridiculous navel gazing isht.

But when a writer comes along whose sole purpose in comicbook writing life, seems to be all about tearing down the mythos of a character as solidly capable as T'Challa, suspension of disbelief is jettisoned, and Rape Camps, disloyalty, rebellion and all the other stereotypical nonsense Coates has stayed channeling through T'Challa's solo book, is totally acceptable and appropriate despite the fact that Coates approach flies in the face of all that preceded it.

The Black Panther solo book is not some random book for a faux "woke" writer to experiment with or explore his own possible insecurities and slavery mentality based angst through.

It's supposed to be a book that's all about a solidly stoic protagonist and the uniquely Afrofuturistic Nation that he hails from.

I sincerely pray that RedJack gets to be the next chronicler of T'Challa's journey because Coates stuff is a joke that no ones laughing at but the haters who love to see the BP mythos rubbished in this manner.

[Ezyo1000]

you better say all of this truth
#wakandaforever



you're seriously one of my favorite posters!

just fyi that awful retcon of the underage sex was retconned back to the original storyline so we are all good again.

I just find it so interesting how much coates is taken to task but the things you mentioned (which by the way I haven't read but based on your description is by far worse than anything I've seen said against Coates) isnt mentioned at all? Very odd indeed. Nevertheless, I'm totally aligned with your analysis here.

You got it twisted. First off, us BP posters are not biased. Doesn't matter who you are, you get credit where credit is due, and if you write something that deserves criticism you get it. Priest, Hudlin, liss, etc. All of them are not above criticism even writing the greatest BP stories they still get criticism for the stuff that didn't land right.

Also the scenes X-Pac is talking about here's the deal. In tro Shuri decides not to go with T'Challa and stays behind to fight and die with her people, why? Because she is a warrior from a warrior nation and she was Queen and failed to save her people so she chose to stay and fight proxima midnight, knowing full well she was going to die.

Hudlins deal with morlun killing Wakandan characters. That sucked yes, I hate that T'Challa doesn't have any friends alive, his male friends. But o would sacrifice them a thousand times if it meant we could erase the last nearly 4 years of Coates. Coates Series is worse then anything any other writer has done. Way worse then even when Mayberry had Doom kick T'Challas ass, leaving him broken at his feet, then he had T'Challa THANK Doom for "teaching him and Wakanda a lesson" before he destroys all the vibranium in the world "defeating" Doom (just so you know for context, thousands of Wakandans died In This story including T'Challas uncle S'yan and all Doom "lost" was money) in the most ridiculously stupid pyrrhic victory in BP history. Coates has topped all the worst writer's of BP in history

[Mr MajestiK]

You got it twisted. First off, us BP posters are not biased. Doesn't matter who you are, you get credit where credit is due, and if you write something that deserves criticism you get it. Priest, Hudlin, liss, etc. All of them are not above criticism even writing the greatest BP stories they still get criticism for the stuff that didn't land right.

Also the scenes X-Pac is talking about here's the deal. In tro Shuri decides not to go with T'Challa and stays behind to fight and die with her people, why? Because she is a warrior from a warrior nation and she was Queen and failed to save her people so she chose to stay and fight proxima midnight, knowing full well she was going to die.

Hudlins deal with morlun killing Wakandan characters. That sucked yes, I hate that T'Challa doesn't have any friends alive, his male friends. But o would sacrifice them a thousand times if it meant we could erase the last nearly 4 years of Coates. Coates Series is worse then anything any other writer has done. Way worse then even when Mayberry had Doom kick T'Challas ass, leaving him broken at his feet, then he had T'Challa THANK Doom for "teaching him and Wakanda a lesson" before he destroys all the vibranium in the world "defeating" Doom (just so you know for context, thousands of Wakandans died In This story including T'Challas uncle S'yan and all Doom "lost" was money) in the most ridiculously stupid pyrrhic victory in BP history. Coates has topped all the worst writer's of BP in history

Thank you so much for bringing up the Shuri issue as regards her staying behind to battle Proxima Midnight.

She was the Queen of Wakanda at the time.

What else was she supposed to do other than stand with whichever Wakandan defenders were still alive to fight on at that point.

Shuri took a strategic decision to fight a rearguard action long enough to give her brother a chance to retreat and fight the battle on a different field of conflict.

The irony in all of this, is that the same folks criticising Shuri and calling her stupid for standing against Proxima Midnight, would have been the first to call her a coward and failed Queen for abandoning her people to the fate against the alien invaders besieging Wakanda.

It's very easy to engage in rampant misinformation in the absence of logical rebuttals but thankfully there are still some amongst us, who are not about to fold in the face of disingenuousity.

This is the Black Panther Appreciation thread and not some outpost for some folks to sling falsehoods and low key shade to their hearts content.

[Vibranium Weave]

Considering the fact that as you've admitted, your knowledge of BP lore in its entirety, is sporadic to non-existant, you're the last person who should be passing meaningful commentary on said lore in this thread.

Coates is literally the worst writer bar none of I have ever written anything BP related and the day he's finally gone from the mythos alongside all of his worthless retcons, will be a very good day.

Coates much like any other writer who's taken liberties with the BP mythos over the years, gets called out in the regular in here because he's that bad of a writer.

With the exception of one or at the most, two people posting in this thread, 97% of the readers posting herein, recognise Coates for the wilfully destructive individual that he's been as regards his complete and utter derailment of the BP solo for close to four years now.

But for readers like yourself, he gets high praise for using T'Challa's SOLO book as a platform to elevate Storm, a character that has been rendered irrelevant and without overarching agency over in the X-Verse for so many years post AvX.

An X-Verse which for all intents and purposes has now become quite supremacist to levels rarely before seen outside of Hydra.

To be quite honest, in the aftermath of what's been going on in the X-books as well as X-Men/FF #1, Storm's mutant supremacist self really has no business taking up space within the BP solo or further involvement with the BP mythos moving forward.

It's funny how you personally complain about Storm being written out of character in X-books and then come over here to dismiss the concerns of Black Panther enthusiasts who understand the characters importance and remain thoroughly informed as to his characterization and traits, dating back to his creation in 1966.

We get the BP mythos chapter and verse in here because practically all of us regardless of age, ethnicity, gender or orientation, are genuine appreciators of T'Challa's pedigree as well as the uniqueness of his origins.

We don't need or expect any writer to elevate T'Challa to faux godhood especially in someone else's book or another franchise.

All we require is for T'Challa to he written in character and for his actual supporting cast to equally be portrayed in their pre-Coates derailment agenda, glory.

It's really that simple.

Coates should try pushing that Rape Camp trope over in the X-Verse and see how far he gets with that before being shut down with the quickness, but according to you, he's written nothing on par with Jerome Dickey's unnecessary retcon of T'Challa and Ororo's teenage years.

How disingenuous.

So in closing, feel free to come in here, praising whomsoever you choose to, in the full knowledge that the actual BP enthusiasts posting in here, are very clear as to what you're doing and why.

Most of us aren't on that goalpost moving, mental gymnastics process of disinformation favoured by a distinct minority of posters in this thread.

Dropping Gems of Truth, at a time they are really needed !!!! Keep doing it, Bro!!!

[XPac]

You got it twisted. First off, us BP posters are not biased. Doesn't matter who you are, you get credit where credit is due, and if you write something that deserves criticism you get it. Priest, Hudlin, liss, etc. All of them are not above criticism even writing the greatest BP stories they still get criticism for the stuff that didn't land right.

Also the scenes X-Pac is talking about here's the deal. In tro Shuri decides not to go with T'Challa and stays behind to fight and die with her people, why? Because she is a warrior from a warrior nation and she was Queen and failed to save her people so she chose to stay and fight proxima midnight, knowing full well she was going to die.

Hudlins deal with morlun killing Wakandan characters. That sucked yes, I hate that T'Challa doesn't have any friends alive, his male friends. But o would sacrifice them a thousand times if it meant we could erase the last nearly 4 years of Coates. Coates Series is worse then anything any other writer has done. Way worse then even when Mayberry had Doom kick T'Challas ass, leaving him broken at his feet, then he had T'Challa THANK Doom for "teaching him and Wakanda a lesson" before he destroys all the vibranium in the world "defeating" Doom (just so you know for context, thousands of Wakandans died In This story including T'Challas uncle S'yan and all Doom "lost" was money) in the most ridiculously stupid pyrrhic victory in BP history. Coates has topped all the worst writer's of BP in history

Shuri staying behind was stupid.

The fact that she is queen means she has an obligation to protect those those who are still alive. She can't do anything for them dead. If thats what it means to be a queen then Wakanda didn't need a queen ... it needed a hero. And it got one with Tchalla, who didn't just throw his life away needlessly but instead fight to both protect those still alive and restore those who perished. They didn't need someone to die for them as that accomplishes nothing .... they needed someone to live for them. If Shuri just goes off and kills herself when things get tough then its a good thing she stepped aside and allowed Tchalla to do the job. But I still feel that was bad character assasination.