Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Marvell2100]

I'd prefer if none of these plots happened at all to be honest.

I feel ya. I hope not either.

[chief12d]

I say use the Coates storylines for Shuri, so that way if T’Challa does come back by the third movie they’ll have nothing but the good stuff for him. Lmao.

That's definitely what I'd prefer. Shuri's arc fits perfectly with the idea of mysticism vs technology. Wakanda could be threatened by some new enemy and Shuri's forced to reconcile her scientific mind with the secrets of the Djalia so we can get a non-shitty version of Griot. Idk who she'd face that wouldn't feel like stealing from T'Challa though. The Space Lubber lol. Maybe Moses Magnum and some rogue Atlantean, setting up T'Challa's confrontation with Achebe and/or Namor in BP3. If Disney MUST force T'Challa into a conflict with Atlantis, I'd rather the feat of tricking him and Namor into fighting goes to an actual BP villain. But yea, let's see the MCU try and carve out a distinct story for Shuri without stealing T'Challa stories.

[Marvell2100]

I say use the Coates storylines for Shuri, so that way if T’Challa does come back by the third movie they’ll have nothing but the good stuff for him. Lmao.

Sounds great. Put it on Disney+ as a spin-off while T'Challa does his thing.

[XPac]

It's a waste of time if they plan on bringing T'Challa back for the 3rd movie. This is about keeping the same energy and logic. Like I've already said, if T'Challa isn't being killed off and they're going to recast, why waste time doing a whole a movie without him? Theyre only just delaying the inevitable which could have been avoided if Disney/Marvel had decided to keep quiet for several more months.

Also, generally speaking how many films get made but turn out to be critical and financial train wrecks and by extention a waste of time? Many. I'm not saying BP2 is going to be s critical flop but I'll bet the farm it won't be doing close to $1.3Billion...even if this was precovid. The fact this film doesn't have T'Challa cast as the lead compromises the film in principle and when this film is released, no matter how good it may be, it's never going to be as good as it could and should.

I guess the reason would be that Disney beleives, right or wrong, that Coogler can put out a worthwhile movie without Black Panther. Guess we'll wait and see whether or not that's the case.

Again, I'd argue if the movie is good and it advances the narrative (and if it makes money), then it's worth. T'Challa's presence can't be the sole measurement over whether or not the movie has any worth. But we'll see.

[taozen]

That's fine. But go other routes such as Disney plus, I mean your right, there is a Rich tapestry of characters and Wakanda abd what better place to explore that then D+? It allows T'Challas presence to stay in the greater MCU like it should AND it allows for the further development of the supporting cast and explanation of Wakanda without taking up too much screen time in the movie. But that's not what's going on. They are using the black panther marketing name While sidelining the character. That's just like if something happened to bale and they made "The Dark Knight: Gotham" and completely took out Batman.

I want Black folks to have more representation as well and become icon's. You don't do that though by sealing away currently the BIGGEST Iconic Black role in history and start over from scratch with characters that are unproven to lead a franchise and who have zero/limited history or lore to speak of.

And another problem is how quickly people want to move onto the thinking of "It's not longer just about X Black character or actor anymore" because the title character is just as important of not more so than the supporting cast or the world they inhabit. Unlike the supporting cast.

T'Challa is the one who changes Wakandas old mindset. T'Challa is the hero of the franchise. T'Challa out Wakanda on the big stage and says it's their responsibility to help the rest of the world as well. T'Challa IS change and Wakandas future. He was created to be there way and no other character in his franchise.

Okoye Nakia Shuri etc. None of them are as forward thinking as he. So no it's not just something you just transfer to the other characters Because it's denying what T'Challa is and represents. I sound like a broken record but T'Challa is more than just a black hero. He represents real life historical change in the mindset of people. He was created when racial tension was peaking and was created to fight the racist depictions of black folks.. why the HELL would you want to retire a character like that for ones who are essentially blank slates?

I agree with what you are saying. But in the movie, the women are a bit more forward thinking (Nakia in particular) and convince T'Challa to open up Wakanda. Honestly we T'Challa hardcore fans truly want him recast but there are many who believe it does not matter who is Black Panther and there is a large contingent that want Shuri. I think a lot of that happened due to T'Challa being used as a cypher for Wakanda in the BP film. The other characters were a bit more dynamic in their characterization which resulted in people pushing for them to take over as BP. Add to that the fact that the film makers do not want to see another actor in T'Challa's roll on their watch. It's sad but there will not be any T'Challa stories for a long, long time. I guess if you want to see a Black male lead superhero in the MCU, you will have to wait for Blade. I guess Marvel believes that one is enough.

[Ezyo1000]

Realistically, Marvel should've gotten to work on a Wakanda D+ series the year after the debut film. By the end of 2018 it should've been plainly obvious that the BP IP is a juggernaut franchise that deserves special attention. Even if it wasn't in their plans to work on a spin-off until the end of the trilogy, Disney must've seen the potential for building up the world of Wakanda ASAP.

As there's a very strong argument to be made there's more demand for that than a Hawkeye show. Disney restructured an entire phase when they got Spider-Man. I don't see why they wouldn't restructure the rollout of D+ when BP is by far the biggest franchise that'd be represented on the platform. Even if it was something they couldn't put out for 3-4 years, they should've announced or at least hinted at something being in the pipeline. A project that followed Shuri and Dora or a War Dogs project that followed Nakia and introduced Kasper Cole. Disney dropped the ball not prioritizing BP the second they realized they had a cultural movement on their hands. And from my understanding, they seem to be using D+ to elevate the Captain Marvel franchise with Ms. Marvel and Secret Invasion.

If they are going to move the franchise in with out T'Challa then I want a D+ show of a younger T'Challa, he became BP 10 years before the events of CW, so I want to see a younger version of him, developing his habit and tech, and going on missions there. T'Challa should not be removed from his own franchise due to greed being paraded as honoring Chadwick. Give us a young T'Challa series until we can see him again.

It's a waste of time if they plan on bringing T'Challa back for the 3rd movie. This is about keeping the same energy and logic. Like I've already said, if T'Challa isn't being killed off and they're going to recast, why waste time doing a whole a movie without him? Theyre only just delaying the inevitable which could have been avoided if Disney/Marvel had decided to keep quiet for several more months.

Also, generally speaking how many films get made but turn out to be critical and financial train wrecks and by extention a waste of time? Many. I'm not saying BP2 is going to be s critical flop but I'll bet the farm it won't be doing close to $1.3Billion...even if this was precovid. The fact this film doesn't have T'Challa cast as the lead compromises the film in principle and when this film is released, no matter how good it may be, it's never going to be as good as it could and should.

Another thing people are seemingly forgetting is that by his own words in his tribute, Coogler had written the script already with T'Challa in it, when he mentioned the lines he wanted Chad to say that we unfortunately weren't destined to hear. It's 1000% being driven by emotion, which is why they should of waited. Bp fans have waited forever for the first movie we could of been patient for another year, for then to grieve and be able to move towards a recast and get that process going

[chief12d]

I agree with what you are saying. But in the movie, the women are a bit more forward thinking (Nakia in particular) and convince T'Challa to open up Wakanda. Honestly we T'Challa hardcore fans truly want him recast but there are many who believe it does not matter who is Black Panther and there is a large contingent that want Shuri. I think a lot of that happened due to T'Challa being used as a cypher for Wakanda in the BP film. The other characters were a bit more dynamic in their characterization which resulted in people pushing for them to take over as BP. Add to that the fact that the film makers do not want to see another actor in T'Challa's roll on their watch. It's sad but there will not be any T'Challa stories for a long, long time. I guess if you want to see a Black male lead superhero in the MCU, you will have to wait for Blade. I guess Marvel believes that one is enough.

This was a bigger betrayal of T'Challa's character than stealing his superintelligence and giving it to Shuri. T'Challa not having a distinct worldview of his own to grow into robbed him of the type of compelling, unique voice that would've matched up against Killmonger's rhetoric of revolution. T'Challa's commitment to the status quo with only a hint or two of his heroic morality made him a more static character. Especially when compared to the extreme positions of characters like Shuri or M'Baku.

One could argue that he needed to represent the status quo so that by the end of the film he would've shifted and undergone a character arc. But I feel that was undercut by having it so that Nakia was always floating the right answer in front of him and he just adopts it at the end. In a symbolic sense, KM came off like Malcom X and T'Challa came off like a black person in the 60's just trying to keep their head low, hoping the racism goes away. He didn't become MLK until the end of the film. T'Challa didn't produce a single original idea in BP, Killmonger's actions just forced him to finally align his preexisting morality with Wakandan policy, a policy that Nakia was advocating for from the beginning.

He was a trailblazer on account of having been the first-born of T'Chaka, not because he was the first to actually develop the concept of a globally-active Wakanda. I think he would've been a more hard-hitting character if he had been advocating that Wakanda be more involved from the beginning and having KM present another alternative which brings them to blows. By the end, Wakanda (via some of the council and his supporting cast) would accept T'Challa has a point while T'Challa (previously unconfident in his ascension to the throne) affirms that he will be a different, better king than his father. Idk, I feel T'Challa not being the one to come up with a more cosmopolitan Wakanda hurt him almost as much as having his superintelligence given to Shuri.

[MindofShadow]

It doesn't make sense for MCU T'challa to 100% trailblaze that decision on his own. He doesn't have the same background as comic T'challa. T'chaka being alive and ruling into old age completely changes his circumstances.

The fact he even thought about it is enough. He looked up to his dad... but instead of his dad dying at 8 years old, he looked up to him for 30 years and watched him rule for 30 years. He isn't going to immediately deviate from his idol.

He weighed the decision, talked to the two people he was closest with (his boo and his best friend) and made a decision. As a king should.

Movies just differ from comics and this is one off those fundamental ways they do. Comic T'challa never had to deal with the weight of his ancestors in the Djalia and tell them they were wrong like T'challa did either.

[Besouro]

If they are going to move the franchise in with out T'Challa then I want a D+ show of a younger T'Challa, he became BP 10 years before the events of CW, so I want to see a younger version of him, developing his habit and tech, and going on missions there. T'Challa should not be removed from his own franchise due to greed being paraded as honoring Chadwick. Give us a young T'Challa series until we can see him again.




Another thing people are seemingly forgetting is that by his own words in his tribute, Coogler had written the script already with T'Challa in it, when he mentioned the lines he wanted Chad to say that we unfortunately weren't destined to hear. It's 1000% being driven by emotion, which is why they should of waited. Bp fans have waited forever for the first movie we could of been patient for another year, for then to grieve and be able to move towards a recast and get that process going

Well said about the D+ show..... That's a fine idea.

[Besouro]

I believe one of the What If's involves T'Challa, so that sort of involves the Wakandan universe (even though it sounds like they are taking T'Challa out of it). Boseman did the voice work for What If, so we're at least getting one last performance from him.

Oh you betcha What If? is a definite MUST WATCH just for Boseman.

[Ezyo1000]

I agree with what you are saying. But in the movie, the women are a bit more forward thinking (Nakia in particular) and convince T'Challa to open up Wakanda. Honestly we T'Challa hardcore fans truly want him recast but there are many who believe it does not matter who is Black Panther and there is a large contingent that want Shuri. I think a lot of that happened due to T'Challa being used as a cypher for Wakanda in the BP film. The other characters were a bit more dynamic in their characterization which resulted in people pushing for them to take over as BP. Add to that the fact that the film makers do not want to see another actor in T'Challa's roll on their watch. It's sad but there will not be any T'Challa stories for a long, long time. I guess if you want to see a Black male lead superhero in the MCU, you will have to wait for Blade. I guess Marvel believes that one is enough.

Thing is, T'Challa was already more forward thinking before the movie even dropped. He had Bucky there, he had let Cap and co hide out there for a time after CW. Remember when he asked his father how to be a good King like him and he told him to surround yourself with people he trust's? That's what he did. Notice when he talks to people about their thoughts for Wakanda he comes from both sides. Nakia wants to open up, T'Challa questions are they able to without losing themselves. W'kabi wants to go clean the world and T'Challa reminds him they are not conquerors. T'Challa decides to bring Ross to Wakanda and corrects Okoye for her thoughts Against it. And it's when he changes when he learns what his father died, to their own people is where he really starts his own path to help. It wasn't just Nakia (though she had played a role in that.

I don't know if there's as many who believe anyone can be BP plus that line of thinking is flawed. We saw ad much in the movie when everyone balked at the idea of actually taking the mantle. Shuri wasn't even apart of the conversation. M'Baku, who after T'Challa was the most likely candidate, knew that he didn't want that and he wasn't suited for it.

Plus again as I said, they are ignoring that BP isn't just done random hero. T'Challa specifically is the best Wakandan there is and they are ignoring how much history is behind his character all to try and check off an arbitrary diversity check box real failing to realize that the franchise is already far ahead of the curve in terms of representation for black men and women and did it right by not piting them Against one another like movies and tv constantly try to do.

Anyone can challenge for the mantle... But not anyone CAN be the black panther. The characters were only dynamic when they interacted with T'Challa, that's when they were there best selves. Otherwise they were pretty standard in their niche role. With Nakia being a bit more dynamic as a LI should be.

I hope you don't miss the irony of your last statement. Marvel believes one is enough. Chadwick was fighting to break this mindset of only one Black person can occupy a space. How does marvel honor this trailblazing mindset?...

[Besouro]

I can't support a sequel without a recast, if its successful without him, then there is less motivation for Disney to bring T'challa back.

Good point, I agree!

[Besouro]

Black Panther Fortnite skin got leaked out.

Say whaaaaaat?!?

[chief12d]

It doesn't make sense for MCU T'challa to 100% trailblaze that decision on his own. He doesn't have the same background as comic T'challa. T'chaka being alive and ruling into old age completely changes his circumstances.

The fact he even thought about it is enough. He looked up to his dad... but instead of his dad dying at 8 years old, he looked up to him for 30 years and watched him rule for 30 years. He isn't going to immediately deviate from his idol.

He weighed the decision, talked to the two people he was closest with (his boo and his best friend) and made a decision. As a king should.

Movies just differ from comics and this is one off those fundamental ways they do. Comic T'challa never had to deal with the weight of his ancestors in the Djalia and tell them they were wrong like T'challa did either.

I'm not saying the MCU's direction didn't make sense, I'm saying he had less agency as a result and it lent to the feeling he wasn't the maverick that he is in the comics. I understand this is a different universe, so it doesn't bother me too much. The extent to which that made him a less compelling or headlining character is debatable.

For me, if they had introduced in Civil War that T'Challa had come up with the idea to dispatch those volunteers to Nigeria and that he convinced his father to speak at the UN then they could've still been comic accurate while adhering to the MCU status quo. T'Challa's institutional reformist mindset is shown, his father's open-mindedness is on display, and T'Challa is indirectly responsible for his own father's death due to his beliefs. This sets up the emotional conflict of Black Panther while still letting T'Challa be the driving force behind Wakandan outreach.

We knew he was BP for years just like Nakia had been deployed overseas on more than one occasion, all the elements were there for T'Challa to be a global-minded reformist from the beginning instead of him spending most of the film trying to be the best version of T'Chaka. He could've still idolized his father while believing different things. He also could still deal with the legacy of his ancestor's isolationism the same way he did in the original movie because T'Chaka still would've left KM overseas to become the monster that he did. Having Nakia dangle the right answer right in front of T'Challa the entire film and just having him adopt it due to KM's rage made him more static than he needed to be, because he never stood for a distinct or original idea.

[FLEX HECTIC]

Wakanda.

Well sort of...

The elders gathered for the emergency meeting waiting patiently for their king's arrival.

Princess Shuri strolls in curious as to why they are all still there.

Princess Shuri: "Uhm, didn't you get the memo... King T'challa cancelled this meeting hours ago."

The elders all looked back and forth at each other shaking their heads before standing and exiting the chambers.

The Wakanda Design Group labs.

Princess Shuri tinkers on some new tech when her Kimoyo bead ignites with the face of Wakanda's most feared warrior.

General Okoye: "Princess Shuri, have you located King T'challa he missed this mornings military briefings."

Princess Shuri: "Ah yeah... He was just here a moment ago I'll tell him you called."

The Jabari Lands.

M'baku, who has now come around to using tech he used to scoff at also ignites a Kimoyo bead.

Lord M'baku: "Princess Shuri your brother was supposes to be here this afternoon for a game of dominoes."

Princess Shuri: "Oh sorry he got busy with some other matters I'll tell him you reached out though."

The royal bedroom.

Soon to be queen Nakia in the finest of vibranium lingerie waits impatiently for... Well c'mon we're adults here figure it out.

Ignites yet another Kimono bead.

Queen Nakia: "Princess Shuri... I'm in the royal room will your brother be much longer if so I might just start without him HINT HINT!"

Princess Shuri: "Oh my Bast... I apologize he just left with the Avengers for Latveria so he might be gone for a good minute."

Queen Nakia: "He seems to be doing a whole lot of disappearing acts lately is everything okay?"

Princess Shuri: "Yes, I'll keep you updated bye now."

Just then queen mother bursts into the room...

Queen Mother: "Where dis N!&&@ at... Every time someone looks for my son he is always just around the corner or just left the room or magically is in another location other than where he is supposed be at that particular time!"

Princess Shuri smiles and shrugs her shoulders with no real apparent answer.

Queen Mother: "So it's Black Panther but without the Black Panther!!!"

Queen Mother shakes her head vigorously with the deepest disdain, flips her royal cloak and tosses it on the ground and walks out defiantly like a BOSS!


Epilogue Deleted Scene.

Princess Zanda: "I have you now my king!"

Princess Zanda and her evil henchmen have a prisoner tied up in a large bag.

Princess Zanda: "Squirm all you want my king for you and the vibranium shall all be mine... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

Princess Zanda opens the bag and reveals the ultimate in product placement...

Princess Zanda: "Baby Yoda!!!"

Grogu: "beboop."

Princess Zanda: "WTF!!!"


DAYUM... Even fan fiction is moving on without T'challa!


1-800-WHERE-IS-BLACK-PANTHER