Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Marvell2100]

Anyone think that there's a Coogler's cut for BP or do you think he got just about everything he wanted in the theatrical release?

[Ekie]

Tony and Cap were killing each other when they died in tro and they are just fine now... So no, that's a cop out. Namor should of died, especially because when that went down that was after the life raft and such. Again, Namor wasn't needed for the rest of the story and should of been killed. If not then Hickman should of never had T'Challa say he was going to kill him. Empty promises to these characters is super damaging

They did kill eachother but it just looked small, silly, and petty. Things that giants dont do.

[Ekie]

There's a difference between crying I. Front of his dad he just saw die in front of him less then a week ago, and crying for being scolded by his father who's been dead for 20+ years

But that was the second time he saw his dead Dad in the movie. If he was gonna cry he should have done it the first time. It was the additional tough choice he had to make that pished hos emotions. I just dont see an issue since Killing billions of innocent ppl on another planet (that might even have its own little wakanda) would be tough even without your dead Dad in your ear

[Ekie]

Anyone think that there's a Coogler's cut for BP or do you think he got just about everything he wanted in the theatrical release?

I hope there is and i hope its nothing but 2 extra hours of showcasing why Tchalla is a beast.

[XPac]

I hope there is and i hope its nothing but 2 extra hours of showcasing why Tchalla is a beast.

For whatever reason, Disney marvel doesn't do extended or director cuts of movies like Sony, Fox, and Warner Bros.

Maybe that will change if the Snyder Cut becomes a big deal.

[chief12d]

Again, if he wants to continue trying to kill Namor after Secret Wars that one thing... the bigger point being that in the LEAST hold off until after the multiverse is saved. The point of his botched attempt at killing Namor was to show to him that prioritizing his own agenda over the greater good wasn't necessarily the smart thing to do. In the least save it for later.

As far as trying to kill Namor afterwards... it's an understandable perspective on both Namor and T'Challas part. But the question is whether or not they and their kingdoms are better off continuing their conflict, or whether they are better off simply ending it. Because a conflict between 2 kings is inevitably going to spill over with their kingdoms, and both only just got restored. It's a pointless war at this point... a waste of potential lives and resources as neither side at this point was really a threat to the other. It's going to war just for the sake of going to war, and that wasn't going to do either side any good.

The time that T'Challa and Black Bolt jumped Namor would've been a perfect time to kill him off. The heroes had a new strategy that didn't require Namor's actions anymore. T'Challa is able to walk and chew gum at the same time, so detonating a dead world and killing Namor at the same time could've gone off without a hitch.

The reason Namor didn't die was so that he could be used for some comedic relief in Secret Wars then get killed in Squadron Supreme. After everything that went on, I don't see how T'Challa would just give up on his personal promise to kill Namor just because both their kingdoms were already destroyed. He'd outlived his usefulness and still had Wakandan blood on his hands. The universe was reborn anyway so with T'Challa getting his revenge everything could be forgiven going into ANAD.

On a thematic level them working together was supposed to be a poignant commentary on the futility of violence at the end of the world. But the way it happened it feels like the equivalent of the The Last of Us 2, where the main character just lets the "villain" live just because "revenge is bad".

[chief12d]

I disagree with all of this. at the end of Hickman's run wakanda was still strong still standing and on a better path for the future. Coats made the decision to uturn that path. The difference between Tchalla and Shuri is that Shuri is passion where as Tchalla is logic. Logically it makes sense to see the bigger picture. Logically it makes sense to squash the Namor beef (I prefer they didn't) in order to save the entire multiverse. Destroying Atlantis is fun and all but it wasn't the logical choice at the time considering the real threat out there. Its not morality, its logic.

Also, Reed may get the final credit but Reed CLEARLY gave credit for the final plan to Black Panther. And Doom recognized it was Panther who set the final battle in motion before he even showed up on the battle field. Let give credit where it is due.

I'll also critic where its due. I wanted more from T'challa but as you can see by his current and past publication history, what we got (third most important cog in the Hickman wheel for Marvel's biggest event ever) is nothing to be pissed about.

By the time T'Challa strategically decided to off Namor, he'd outlived his usefulness. It was completely logical to kill him at the time and place that he did. From a narrative standpoint nothing would've changed other than Namor not being present for Secret Wars, where he was basically a non-factor to begin with.

I've already said T'Challa working with Namor in the beginning of New Avengers was interesting, but when push came to shove I fully expected him to kill the dude when the opportunity and circumstances were right. Failing to do so was disrespect to all the Wakandans Namor had killed up to that point and made him look weak. I don't even care so much about Shuri dying so much as T'Challa failing to get revenge. Especially since Namor still had more wins in that story over T'Challa than the other way around. He didn't even have remorse in his heart for what he did and gladly would do it again.

The idea that T'Challa's contributions in Secret Wars get glossed over isn't Hickman's fault, I can admit that. That's more of a fandom thing because either A. People want to downplay how relevant he was in that story or B. They focus on how it was truly the story of Reed and Doom and everything else is kinda secondary or nonessential. Hickman gave T'Challa his flowers in that regard but at the end of the day Reed saved the day (as he should have btw) and gets the majority of the praise.

I'm not mad about what Hickman did with T'Challa. I just don't shower it with endless praise or act like there weren't times when his depiction of T'Challa was compromised to serve the plot. But he's still miles better than Coates' iteration of Black Panther and put T'Challa on the biggest stage in his publication history so I'll always give him that.

[XPac]

The time that T'Challa and Black Bolt jumped Namor would've been a perfect time to kill him off. The heroes had a new strategy that didn't require Namor's actions anymore. T'Challa is able to walk and chew gum at the same time, so detonating a dead world and killing Namor at the same time could've gone off without a hitch.

The reason Namor didn't die was so that he could be used for some comedic relief in Secret Wars then get killed in Squadron Supreme. After everything that went on, I don't see how T'Challa would just give up on his personal promise to kill Namor just because both their kingdoms were already destroyed. He'd outlived his usefulness and still had Wakandan blood on his hands. The universe was reborn anyway so with T'Challa getting his revenge everything could be forgiven going into ANAD.

On a thematic level them working together was supposed to be a poignant commentary on the futility of violence at the end of the world. But the way it happened it feels like the equivalent of the The Last of Us 2, where the main character just lets the "villain" live just because "revenge is bad".

Between the Civil War movie, the BP solo movie, and even the BP cartoon I am starting to think that the "revenge is bad" narrative is becoming synonimous with the character. Maybe to some degree that can all be traced back to Hickman (though it' probably coincidental).

But in comic book logic, I think that trait is wha seperates a tragic hero from a villain. A villain will keep trying and trying to kill the person they believe has wronged them, while a hero despite how wronged they were can actually move on from it. T'Challa can do something that a Killmonger can't do. And of course in the specific case of T'Challa and Namor is a bit more complicated, as they threaten to drag their people into war over it.

I do get people wanting T'Challa to have his revenge. Personally though, I just wanted to see the heroes act like heroes again. I had 2 years of heroes fighting each other, and thats coming off of Civil War and AvX and Axis. So I was happy to see the heroes acting like actual heroes and choosing to fight the bad guy instead of each other.

[FLEX HECTIC]

I have directors cuts for my fan fiction but that's because CBR has a limit on bandwidth usage so I shorten the posts!

[Vanguard]

Does anybody know Black Panthers sprinting speed in comics?

[Ezyo1000]

To be fair...they were good jokes

Good enough to let Namor live over? Absolutely not.

[MindofShadow]

Does anybody know Black Panthers sprinting speed in comics?

Faster than sabertooth based on feat(s)

he was created to be second fastest behind quicksilver

nobody remembers this shit though. He is basically a purple suit these days lol

[Ezyo1000]

Between the Civil War movie, the BP solo movie, and even the BP cartoon I am starting to think that the "revenge is bad" narrative is becoming synonimous with the character. Maybe to some degree that can all be traced back to Hickman (though it' probably coincidental).

But in comic book logic, I think that trait is wha seperates a tragic hero from a villain. A villain will keep trying and trying to kill the person they believe has wronged them, while a hero despite how wronged they were can actually move on from it. T'Challa can do something that a Killmonger can't do. And of course in the specific case of T'Challa and Namor is a bit more complicated, as they threaten to drag their people into war over it.

I do get people wanting T'Challa to have his revenge. Personally though, I just wanted to see the heroes act like heroes again. I had 2 years of heroes fighting each other, and thats coming off of Civil War and AvX and Axis. So I was happy to see the heroes acting like actual heroes and choosing to fight the bad guy instead of each other.

That's fine and all, but not at the expense of making T'Challa look weak. I'll tell you this, All BP Fans are beyond tired of the noble negro trope

[Vanguard]

Faster than sabertooth based on feat(s)

he was created to be second fastest behind quicksilver

nobody remembers this shit though. He is basically a purple suit these days lol

Thanks. Great answer. Didn’t know about the Quick Silver idea.

[Blind Wedjat]

Speculation is mounting that Black Panther might be revealed in the next War Table for Marvel's Avengers this coming Tuesday. I don't want to get anyone's hopes up and there's no confirmation right now but it is very likely. If he isn't, then he'll be revealed at another time.