Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[MindofShadow]

There has been no "golden age" where black men reigned supreme in fiction now its black women's turn, which seems to be implication.

naw bro, 2018 was our golden age. Black Panther in February, Miles in December.

All downhill from there.

[XPac]

You make it sounds like we were given those characters all in one big lump. Blade was in 1998, Luke Cage 2016 & Black Panther 2018. Also there were prominent black female characters in each so it's not like they were lacking.

Depends what you mean by lacking. If there are literally no black female leads anywhere in the MCU, a person can credibly argue that a black female presence is lacking regardless of how many black female side kicks there are.

It's like arguing we didn't need a BP movie because we had Falcon and War Machine. Falcon was great (War Machine not so much), but having black male lead character was still a big deal regardless of how many black male side kicks marvel had running around. And I think the people pushing for a black female lead feel the same way.

[DigiCom]

*yawn*



I'm reading a lot of posts about agendas, but not a whole lot about what's best for the story/setting/characters.

[XPac]

*yawn*



I'm reading a lot of posts about agendas, but not a whole lot about what's best for the story/setting/characters.

And really that's all that matters, since whatever Coogler does will be beneficial in the long run.

Whatever decision Coogler makes will benefit the direction he takes going forward, and the people not getting what they want will just have to live with that.

That said, there are a lot of very workable directions to take, so it's an unfortunate but nonetheless interesting position for Coogler to be in.

[Dboi654]

*yawn*



I'm reading a lot of posts about agendas, but not a whole lot about what's best for the story/setting/characters.

Finish T'Challa's story arc. That's what I think is best.

[MindofShadow]

Finish T'Challa's story arc. That's what I think is best.

^^^^^^

t'challa gotta deal with the positive and negative repercussions of trying to help other countries.

"You're a good man with a good heart. And it's hard for a good man to be king"

Gotta ride that out. That is the central question to T'challa.

First movie is the easy part. T'challa was a good man with a good heart.

But does doing what he did make him a good king of Wakanda? Gotta find out

[Ezyo1000]

Steve Rogers probably had less than 2 years of military training and become arguable the best fighter on the planet. Just saying.

Place Okoye in the role of Pauly and Shuri's one Rocky montage away from being able to beat anyone they put in front of her, because that's what movie protagonist do. We've seen this in a million times in a different other movies. Doesn't matter than Daniel should have gotten his butt kicked by Johnny after only getting a couple months of training in comparrison to a guy who was previously a 2 time champion... Daniel was going to overcome the odds because he's the hero of the movie and that's what heroes do. If Shuri is put in that positon, she'll rise to the occasion just like any other protagonist.

Everything you are describing... every obstacle and every reason she can't and shouldn't be ruler is exactly what makes her a viable choice to tell this story. It creates a character arc and responsibility she would ultimately have to grow into, proving everyone who doubts her wrong. And that sort of thing is accomplished in a single movie all the time.

Point being it's workable if Coogler decides to go there. Though if he wants to still explore T'Challa obviously he'll do that instead. Again, he has options.

Yeah and that's stupid with what your saying about Steve, or strange, or IM or any movie really that allows a character with minimal training to all of a sudden be the best especially since when it came to Steve, he didn't even complete basic training. Infact, the BP movie ensured this didn't happen by already having T'Challa BE the BP and the comic saying he has been the BP for 10 years already. So this whole montage nonsense doesn't apply because he is established. That's what separates BP from the average Marvel movie is that it avoided a lot of those tropes associated with this. And again, of later down the road they decide to have Shuri take the mantle then they can build her towards that organically instead of montaging it up for convenience

[XPac]

Yeah and that's stupid with what your saying about Steve, or strange, or IM or any movie really that allows a character with minimal training to all of a sudden be the best especially since when it came to Steve, he didn't even complete basic training. Infact, the BP movie ensured this didn't happen by already having T'Challa BE the BP and the comic saying he has been the BP for 10 years already. So this whole montage nonsense doesn't apply because he is established. That's what separates BP from the average Marvel movie is that it avoided a lot of those tropes associated with this. And again, of later down the road they decide to have Shuri take the mantle then they can build her towards that organically instead of montaging it up for convenience

Its arguably stupid that she can be prepared to be BP in a single movie. But frankly it's stupid that they didn't properly prepare her for it in the first place. So I'm okay with a retcon that makes them look less stupid. It's getting her to where she should be in the first place.

[Marvell2100]

I honestly think if an actor came out and just said, "I am no Chadwick Boseman but I will do my best to honor his legacy with this character." that everyone would give whoever it was a pass no matter what.

This. Chadwick inspired millions around the world to want to be Black Panther but now, all of a sudden actors are scared of the responsibility to take that role? That's bullsh!t.

If anything, that will inspire actors to want to step in and honor the legacy that Chadwick began. There are no shortages of good Black male actors who can step up.

[Ezyo1000]

I'd argue black women have it worse in terms of adaptations. Black men and boys have Blade, Luke Cage, Black Panther, and the upcoming Falcon (though that's more of a buddy cop thing). Plus a Blade reboot. Black women have a black female invented for a garbage CW show, a racebent Catwoman (who's white in every other medium), and a Vixen animated series that doesn't even amount to two hours worth of content.

I completely agree fighting over table scraps is a scarcity mindset that holds back diversity in Hollywood, but I think it's worth pointing out there's a certain degree of desperation for a strong black female lead that even black men don't quite have to grapple with. If Monica had gotten a movie back in the 90s and Misty Knight was getting a TV show I doubt there'd be as much push as there is now for Shuri to take the mantle. But the reality is Shuri is in the minds of many people, the most immediate and perhaps more importantly, high quality option for a black female-led superhero franchise.

But it's not a black female superhero franchise. Its a black male superhero franchise. That what we keep saying. You want she to lead a franchise? Make a SHURI movie. Batgirl, super girl, they branched off on their own. You don't cannibalize a franchise because in the end your taking one away from the other. You push for more representation. That's what T'Chadwick was doing and people want to Honor that by... Doing the exact thing he was trying to get hollywood away from? Its like MOS said, if they are making a shang chi movie, you don't think they can't make a Black female led movie? Where are all then Storm fans? She is one of the most known black female characters out there and has been around for decade's. Where's her push to get her own movie ( instead of trying t hamfist her into the BP movie like people suggested)? See people only care when it suits their agenda, and it has nothing to do with respecting Chadwick because of it did the conversation of getting rid of T'Challa for Shuri wouldn't of been happening right after the Solo dropped.

So again this isn't us saying Black women do t need representation, everyone should, however, do t cannibalize BPs franchise when it's already doing leaps and bounds more for Black women (with 3 of them) then other movie's have done

[Lord Morph]

It just annoys me that some people who aren't big T'Challa fans to begin think the know what's good for the character and franchise. Of course they wouldn't mind replacing or shelving both. These same people would balk if the likes of Batman, Wonder Woman, Captain America, Spidey, Iron man .etc had fell under similar circumstances and the studios toyed with getting rid of the characters completely.

*yawn*



I'm reading a lot of posts about agendas, but not a whole lot about what's best for the story/setting/characters.

Coogler has been working on a script for a year with T'Challa still as lead and focus. With that in mind, it would be best to continue with the character.

[Ezyo1000]

*yawn*



I'm reading a lot of posts about agendas, but not a whole lot about what's best for the story/setting/characters.

Focus on what Themes were set up in the first movie. Show how (recasted) T'Challa deals with the fallouts of IW, opening up the world, other super powers and the invasion of Wakanda (probably the first time They were invaded) and what happens when their king and BP, and head of the WDG got snapped. I have said multiple times what I think would be best and it's not retiring T'Challa on some "honoring" Chadwick BS. Because he set the foundation, like Priest did in the comics and inspired million's and I bet there are some who want to continue the legacy and inspire million's as I think when you get into the acting business, especially the superhero genre, that's the goal ultimately.

[Nate Grey]

Focus on what Themes were set up in the first movie. Show how (recasted) T'Challa deals with the fallouts of IW, opening up the world, other super powers and the invasion of Wakanda (probably the first time They were invaded) and what happens when their king and BP, and head of the WDG got snapped. I have said multiple times what I think would be best and it's not retiring T'Challa on some "honoring" Chadwick BS. Because he set the foundation, like Priest did in the comics and inspired million's and I bet there are some who want to continue the legacy and inspire million's as I think when you get into the acting business, especially the superhero genre, that's the goal ultimately.

And, here's what's also important, spinoff Shuri into her own franchise. The ending of BP1 was freaking spinoff fuel anyway. Adventures with that outreach program. She'd just need another character to play the foil so she can have more "what are THOSE!" moments. It could be Kasper, it could be an existing/made up character, but it would still be HER movie.

[chief12d]

It just annoys me that some people who aren't big T'Challa fans to begin think the know what's good for the character and franchise. Of course they wouldn't mind replacing or shelving both. These same people would balk if the likes of Batman, Wonder Woman, Captain America, Spidey, Iron man .etc had fell under similar circumstances and the studios toyed with getting rid of the characters completely.





Coogler has been working on a script for a year with T'Challa still as lead and focus. With that in mind, it would be best to continue with the character.

I'm telling you, if this were an A-list non-black hero this would not even be a discussion, at least not to this degree. If Robert Pattison died before being able to complete The Batman 2, there wouldn't be a huge clamoring for Robin to take the role (assuming he was introduced prior). If Jason Mamoa got outed for sexual assault and had to pull out of Aquaman few would be calling for Kaldur or Ocean Master to take his place. If Tom Holland was in a coma people wouldn't be demanding that Miles take the role and completely write out Peter.

Because people have a firm understanding of the fact that those characters transcend individual actors and that they're too iconic to have their cinematic stories left incomplete. But for many comic fans with a weak understanding of the character, T'Challa and his story are interchangeable with Shuri, Killmonger, Nakia, Okoye, and Kaspar Cole's.

[Ascended]

Yeah, I think Shuri without a doubt is the golden goose for the notion of Marvel having a female lead. With all due respect, no one believes that Spectrum will get her own movie (and I say that as a fan). Next time we see Misty Knight, if ever it'll be at either Luke or Dannys side. Storm at least has a slim chance... but until she's at least a blip on the radar I think Shuri is the best and only viable option for a high profile high quality female lead.

In hindsight it's pretty amazing how potentially significant a character Hudlin created back in the day. I don't think even he realized it at the time.

I get that. The only thing on the horizon for black women is the *rumor* of Riri showing up....somewhere, sometime, probably a few years from now at the earliest. Not much to inspire confidence. Black women desperately need and deserve more representation than they're getting; they rarely even get to be the "black sidekick." And this is a problem everywhere; hell the game Overwatch, which prides itself on its diverse cast, has been around for four years, has over thirty characters, and the first playable black woman isn't gonna arrive until the sequel, which doesn't even have a release date yet. I don't begrudge the folks saying that Shuri should take over for T'Challa, you take what you can get. I don't really agree with the notion but I get where it's coming from.

But I disagree with the notion that characters like Spectrum and Storm have zero-to-little chance of larger media solo adaptations. The MCU was *built* on B-list heroes and have turned D-list characters like Ant-Man and the Guardians of the Galaxy into household names. It's really not as unlikely as people seem to think it is that other characters like Misty or Monica could find their way into projects of their own. I mean, who the hell expected them to announce Moon Knight last year? You never know who the MCU will throw at you next.

And has anyone even mentioned the possibility of a Shuri solo project where she *doesn't* have to dress up like her brother? Shuri was popular enough that she doesn't need the Panther mantle to be successful.

And my point remains that we shouldn't be fighting over the table scraps of one franchise. We should be united in demanding more than one black lead hero from Marvel, not fighting among ourselves over who gets the unenviable task of filling king Chadwick's sneak-ers.