Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Marvell2100]

It makes sense for the toys to reflect the comics and movies. The other media is what alerts kids to the fact that there's a toy worth buying, and what it can do. If they plan things correctly, they can all work together and support each other.

Not necessarily. There are toys of characters out there that have nothing to do with the movies. Some people buy toys without ever seeing the movies.

[Marvell2100]

To me, it's the thrice blessed armor which makes less sense. What does thrice blessed armor even do? Hulk Buster armor has a specific function with certain abilities that the standard armor doesn't. Thrice blessed armor is just more armor without any stated abilities.

I'm not sure it even works as far as giving him additional toys since it doesn't even look that good (my subjective opinion of course). If he's going to have additional suits, have them actually do something the standard doesn't. Otherwise there's no point.

That's the point. Why make more armors if you don't do anything with the one you already have? If they incorporated more capabilities in the Thrice-blessed armor there would be no need for a Hulk-buster or any other specialized armors.

[XPac]

That's the point. Why make more armors if you don't do anything with the one you already have? If they incorporated more capabilities in the Thrice-blessed armor there would be no need for a Hulk-buster or any other specialized armors.

That's the thing... Hulk Buster armor can do things the regular armor can't do. The story goes out of it's way to explain that. It justifies the existance of the armor in the exposition and the story.

Thrice blessed armor was just more armor. Maybe had they bothered incorporating more capabilities into thrice blessed armor, they wouldn't need the Hulkbuster. But they didn't... which is probably why we haven't seen thrice blessed armor return. The idea behind him having additional armor wasn't bad, but the execution of it was lacking to the point where it was pointless.

Plus (and this may just be me) I don't think it looked very cool. It needed to be way more streamlined. Functionally and aestetcically it was lacking.

[Ezyo1000]

I don't think he needs to change suits every 8 issues either... even Iron Man doesn't do that. Again, just saying having a couple specialty modified suits for very specific situations probably isn't a bad idea.

Space being one of them. Placing a helmet on his regular suit is functional enough, but the space suit was just cool. See that in an Avengers movie, and what kid wouldn't wanna go out and buy that at Walmart.

Attachment 100565

That was an okay situation although we didn't see what it could actually do so it was another wasted opportunity. But the suit itself wasn't too bulky which is something I expect T'Challa to have. A mobile suit that focuses on his strengths, hos speed and agility rather that raw power especially since it has claws it means he has to get up close so you want or be able to do so with ease

[Ascended]

I Again, people will complain no matter what Coogler does... he's not going to make everyone happy no matter what he does. But a bunch of people complaining on social media one way or the other shouldn't and won't make a dent here. Odds are this movie will be a huge sucess no matter what he does, so people can complain on social media all they want. Not trying in any way to completely dismiss the feelings of people on twitter or whatever... merely arguing Coogler should make the call based on what he feels is best, not to cater to a bunch of people complaining that likely wont' effect the movie either way. He'll do what he feels is best, and the people who end up not getting what they want are simply going to have to learn to live with it.

It's such a sh*tty situation no matter how you slice it. If you recast T'Challa you're asking someone to come in and fill Chadwick's boots after four movie appearances and a wildly successful solo. He fully cemented himself in the role. If you remove T'Challa and replace him with Shuri or someone, you're cutting the journey of a very popular character off at the knees.

There's really no winning scenario here, and no matter what Marvel does we're gonna be left with nothing but silver linings. And no matter what Marvel does, there will be complaining and bitching, and the film will still make legit money.

I think the comparison to recasting white actors doesn't work here. Evans and Downy got to tell the whole story of Cap and Tony, those characters were written out to coincide with the actors leaving, it's a totally different thing. Ed Norton had only played Hulk in a single film when he was recast, and of all the actors to play Batman and Superman, the only time an actor was replaced within a single version was the 90's Bat films (and arguably Superman Returns).

I still hope they recast T'Challa. His story isn't finished and it seems insulting to replace him; Chadwick didn't get to finish his own life story, T'Challa should be allowed to. To my mind, that would be honoring Chadwick; by building directly on what he did. And it seems insulting to make Marvel's first female black lead a legacy wearing the clothes of her dead brother. It feels like saying black women can't stand on their own merits. But Marvel and Coogler might see it differently, and if they do....well, I'll just have to deal with that. Either way, these people have earned my trust.

Oh, as for costumes, I like the sleek designs that still look somewhat tech-y. I don't like it when the suit is just a black bodysuit with a necklace, but I don't want it too busy either. The Civil War film has my favorite suit from the movies, and there's a bunch of kid coloring books that use the basic design, only toned down for the format, that I really like. It adds some of the silver seams and that really makes the costume pop.

[Marvell2100]

That's the thing... Hulk Buster armor can do things the regular armor can't do. The story goes out of it's way to explain that. It justifies the existance of the armor in the exposition and the story.

Thrice blessed armor was just more armor. Maybe had they bothered incorporating more capabilities into thrice blessed armor, they wouldn't need the Hulkbuster. But they didn't... which is probably why we haven't seen thrice blessed armor return. The idea behind him having additional armor wasn't bad, but the execution of it was lacking to the point where it was pointless.

Plus (and this may just be me) I don't think it looked very cool. It needed to be way more streamlined. Functionally and aestetcically it was lacking.

That's just what I said. Use the Thrice Blessed armor instead of making more armor. We haven't seen the Hulk-buster armor return have we?

Stop making a bunch of armors and let the Thrice-Blessed armor be the go to. T'Challa is a genius. He can modify the Thrice-Blessed armor for what ever purpose he needs instead of making multiple armors.

[XPac]

It's such a sh*tty situation no matter how you slice it. If you recast T'Challa you're asking someone to come in and fill Chadwick's boots after four movie appearances and a wildly successful solo. He fully cemented himself in the role. If you remove T'Challa and replace him with Shuri or someone, you're cutting the journey of a very popular character off at the knees.

There's really no winning scenario here, and no matter what Marvel does we're gonna be left with nothing but silver linings. And no matter what Marvel does, there will be complaining and bitching, and the film will still make legit money.

I think the comparison to recasting white actors doesn't work here. Evans and Downy got to tell the whole story of Cap and Tony, those characters were written out to coincide with the actors leaving, it's a totally different thing. Ed Norton had only played Hulk in a single film when he was recast, and of all the actors to play Batman and Superman, the only time an actor was replaced within a single version was the 90's Bat films (and arguably Superman Returns).

I still hope they recast T'Challa. His story isn't finished and it seems insulting to replace him; Chadwick didn't get to finish his own life story, T'Challa should be allowed to. To my mind, that would be honoring Chadwick; by building directly on what he did. And it seems insulting to make Marvel's first female black lead a legacy wearing the clothes of her dead brother. It feels like saying black women can't stand on their own merits. But Marvel and Coogler might see it differently, and if they do....well, I'll just have to deal with that. Either way, these people have earned my trust.

Because Black Panther is a mantle its theoretically supposed to be passed on to the next person. So I don't think seeing Shuri wear her dead brother's suit really hurts her too much ... especially since she made the suit.

Point being IF they decide not to recast Shuri is a fairly easy pivot. Though there are other potential options too. Kasper Cole potentially works.

[XPac]

That's just what I said. Use the Thrice Blessed armor instead of making more armor. We haven't seen the Hulk-buster armor return have we?

Stop making a bunch of armors and let the Thrice-Blessed armor be the go to. T'Challa is a genius. He can modify the Thrice-Blessed armor for what ever purpose he needs instead of making multiple armors.

The space armor looks similar to the Hulkbuster suit. It's not necessarily the same suit, but I think visually that's become the standard design for the alternate stuff. Design wise at least that seems to have replaced the thrice blessed look. Can't say I'll miss it.

[Ezyo1000]

We'll have to agree to disagree that Shuri becoming BP disrespects Boseman hardwork. I doubt Boseman would have a problem with it at all.. but who knows. Coogler will have a better understanding of that than either of us, and I'm sure he'll act accordingly. Whatever they do I'm sure will be done as a tribute to him.

But certainly if BP does Ant-Man numbers it would be a disappointment. I just don't see that happening. Coogler has already proven he can make a oscar worthy BP movie... I think he'll be just fine.

I'd you have read anything about Boseman and what he intended to do then yes you would see that he wouldn't be cool with just killing off T'Challa abd moving on with Shuri. Dude has said as much that he was trying to change the mindset that only one Black person can exist in a certain space. Something that white actor's and actresses don't run Into.

And also that oscar worthy movie was made possible by the titular character.. if it was so easy to pull BP numbers with any character then we would see more of that. But we don't. T'Challa, the mythos holder, is what made thst happen. Reason people cheered when he came it the Portal, when he got snapped people were upset, when he gave his speech and returned in his movie people cheered.
They weren't clamoring for the supporting cast like that. The supporting cast looks good because of T'Challa.

[DigiCom]

I've always felt that less is more when it comes to Panther, and have said so on more than one occasion.

I don't recall the exact quote, but there's a bit in the Priest era where Ross explains that T'Challa COULD build an Iron Man-type suit, but chooses not to. And I approve of that, because, at the end of the day, that just makes him another Iron Man. Do we really want to see a situation where there's a special Panther habit for the Artic, underwater use, and space? Just because they are "feats" and sell toys?

The other day, I read a piece by Denis VIlleneuve about the fight choreography for his upcoming Dune adaptation, and I want people here to read it:

I developed with our stunt coordinator and choreographers a way of combat that is closer to a chess game than a fighting sequence. When you fight someone with a shield, the idea is to distract them with moves in advance. You want to distract them with a specific move so you can slowly bring the blade into their body. It’s a totally different way of fighting. It’s a way of fighting that is very fast. It's like a chess game, you have to plan in advance and distract the adversary. It’s a very specific, new art form of combat.

THAT is the T'Challa I want to see. He doesn't win fights by pulling a gadget out of his toybox, or coming up with "Shadow Martial arts". He does it by thinking three or four moves ahead, so that he can maneuver his opponent the way he wants him to go. Fancier armor is just a bigger stick, and (as innumerable Iron Man runs have shown) there is only so far you can go before it becomes ridiculous.

And even if it doesn't, do we REALLY want our T'Challa defined as "Just like Tony Stark, but black"?

[Vanguard]

I like the posture and the use of the color. But I don’t think I’m feeling the mask.

[Marvell2100]

I've always felt that less is more when it comes to Panther, and have said so on more than one occasion.

I don't recall the exact quote, but there's a bit in the Priest era where Ross explains that T'Challa COULD build an Iron Man-type suit, but chooses not to. And I approve of that, because, at the end of the day, that just makes him another Iron Man. Do we really want to see a situation where there's a special Panther habit for the Artic, underwater use, and space? Just because they are "feats" and sell toys?

The other day, I read a piece by Denis VIlleneuve about the fight choreography for his upcoming Dune adaptation, and I want people here to read it:



THAT is the T'Challa I want to see. He doesn't win fights by pulling a gadget out of his toybox, or coming up with "Shadow Martial arts". He does it by thinking three or four moves ahead, so that he can maneuver his opponent the way he wants him to go. Fancier armor is just a bigger stick, and (as innumerable Iron Man runs have shown) there is only so far you can go before it becomes ridiculous.

And even if it doesn't, do we REALLY want our T'Challa defined as "Just like Tony Stark, but black"?

Exactly. I don't want T'Challa defined by how many armors he can make for certain situations. That's what Tony does. And even with Tony it got to be too much. The focus went away from the man but all the suits of armor that became plot devices. The went so far as to have the armor become a part of Tony's body.

How long before some writer pulls that with T'Challa. As we've seen before and I've pointed out, T'Challa is more than capable of making do with the habit and incorporating tech into the suit.

[XPac]

I'd you have read anything about Boseman and what he intended to do then yes you would see that he wouldn't be cool with just killing off T'Challa abd moving on with Shuri. Dude has said as much that he was trying to change the mindset that only one Black person can exist in a certain space. Something that white actor's and actresses don't run Into.

And also that oscar worthy movie was made possible by the titular character.. if it was so easy to pull BP numbers with any character then we would see more of that. But we don't. T'Challa, the mythos holder, is what made thst happen. Reason people cheered when he came it the Portal, when he got snapped people were upset, when he gave his speech and returned in his movie people cheered.
They weren't clamoring for the supporting cast like that. The supporting cast looks good because of T'Challa.

Captain Marvel, Aquaman and Joker made a billion too. I wont say with 100% certainty that Coogler can't pull it off without the Tchalla character ... but I also won't assume he will fail until he fails. Again, he's earned the benefit of the doubt in my book at least.

[Ezyo1000]

It's such a sh*tty situation no matter how you slice it. If you recast T'Challa you're asking someone to come in and fill Chadwick's boots after four movie appearances and a wildly successful solo. He fully cemented himself in the role. If you remove T'Challa and replace him with Shuri or someone, you're cutting the journey of a very popular character off at the knees.

There's really no winning scenario here, and no matter what Marvel does we're gonna be left with nothing but silver linings. And no matter what Marvel does, there will be complaining and bitching, and the film will still make legit money.

I think the comparison to recasting white actors doesn't work here. Evans and Downy got to tell the whole story of Cap and Tony, those characters were written out to coincide with the actors leaving, it's a totally different thing. Ed Norton had only played Hulk in a single film when he was recast, and of all the actors to play Batman and Superman, the only time an actor was replaced within a single version was the 90's Bat films (and arguably Superman Returns).

I still hope they recast T'Challa. His story isn't finished and it seems insulting to replace him; Chadwick didn't get to finish his own life story, T'Challa should be allowed to. To my mind, that would be honoring Chadwick; by building directly on what he did. And it seems insulting to make Marvel's first female black lead a legacy wearing the clothes of her dead brother. It feels like saying black women can't stand on their own merits. But Marvel and Coogler might see it differently, and if they do....well, I'll just have to deal with that. Either way, these people have earned my trust.

Oh, as for costumes, I like the sleek designs that still look somewhat tech-y. I don't like it when the suit is just a black bodysuit with a necklace, but I don't want it too busy either. The Civil War film has my favorite suit from the movies, and there's a bunch of kid coloring books that use the basic design, only toned down for the format, that I really like. It adds some of the silver seams and that really makes the costume pop.

Actually the comparisons made to white actor's was what of RDJ or Evans passed before they finished their solo stories. They would be recast. No one was comparing their completed story arcs and being replaced to Chadwick Which was hon passing before his sequel. But you better believe this conversation comes up alot more with Black males being replaced alive or no, then it does for white actor's. Because white actor's are able to exist and coincide without issue whereas black characters it feels like there's a limit to how many can be in one space.

[XPac]

I've always felt that less is more when it comes to Panther, and have said so on more than one occasion.

I don't recall the exact quote, but there's a bit in the Priest era where Ross explains that T'Challa COULD build an Iron Man-type suit, but chooses not to. And I approve of that, because, at the end of the day, that just makes him another Iron Man. Do we really want to see a situation where there's a special Panther habit for the Artic, underwater use, and space? Just because they are "feats" and sell toys?

The other day, I read a piece by Denis VIlleneuve about the fight choreography for his upcoming Dune adaptation, and I want people here to read it:



THAT is the T'Challa I want to see. He doesn't win fights by pulling a gadget out of his toybox, or coming up with "Shadow Martial arts". He does it by thinking three or four moves ahead, so that he can maneuver his opponent the way he wants him to go. Fancier armor is just a bigger stick, and (as innumerable Iron Man runs have shown) there is only so far you can go before it becomes ridiculous.

And even if it doesn't, do we REALLY want our T'Challa defined as "Just like Tony Stark, but black"?

If Hudlin had decided not to give him armor, I would agree with you. If Priests run has it stated that he doesn't need armor then don't give him armor.

But once he's retconned to using armor, then they need to differentiate it from his regular gear so that there's actually a point to it.