Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Ezyo1000]

Again, see Hawkeye. He was a character with decades of development, but the mcu made him whatever he needed to be. Same thing with characters like Aunt May or Jane Foster or even Nakia (though I suppose you might stilk be right about Nakia ... well see).

And see IM, Rhodey, Sam, Cap, Thor, hulk, etc etc. Just because Hawkeye was changed (not even sure what exactly your saying they threw out) doesn't mean it's the case for everyone. Plus Shuri is simply apart of T'Challas supporting cast. Hell look at Okoye, all we knew about her was she was T'Challas ride or die chick. And guess what she is In The MCU? Her personality works. Shuri, had she been developed into something with a personality, that likely would of stuck. And if Coogler still went he route he did at the very least they would base her skills and what not on her comic foundation

[XPac]

MCU Hawkeye was based on the Ultimates Hawkeye, same as they did with a few other characters. That's why he's not like 616 Clint.

So there was no radical change in character.

Fair point. Though I'd still argue the mcu takes whatever liberties they want with all characters outside the A lister. BP franchise alone has a fairly unrecognizable Shuri, Nakia, W,Kabi, and Ross. MBaku and Okoye are somewhat of a stretch too. Mcu basically makes the characters what it needs them to be for the story they are telling. Which is fine.

[XPac]

And see IM, Rhodey, Sam, Cap, Thor, hulk, etc etc. Just because Hawkeye was changed (not even sure what exactly your saying they threw out) doesn't mean it's the case for everyone. Plus Shuri is simply apart of T'Challas supporting cast. Hell look at Okoye, all we knew about her was she was T'Challas ride or die chick. And guess what she is In The MCU? Her personality works. Shuri, had she been developed into something with a personality, that likely would of stuck. And if Coogler still went he route he did at the very least they would base her skills and what not on her comic foundation

Yeah... Okoye is the ride and die chick that completely vanished from the mythos during the characters most difficult time. He needs better ride and die chicks if that's all he's got.

Priest developed Ross, W'Kabi and Nakia with personality... and they were nothing like their movie counterparts. They were what the MCU story needed them to be. Which I guess is fine. Same with Shuri. Hickman actually did a pretty good job instilling Shuri with personality, but it didn't fit the young relatable Disney Princess that Disney wanted, so they went a different way. Which again is fine. Movies don't HAVE to be carbon copies of the source material.

But I will meet you half way. Even though I'm nowhere near convinced as you are that Coogler would have used the comic version of the character had Hudlin done a better job, since Coogler had an obvious willingness to disgard the personalities of the BP characters as needed, I will nonetheless agree that Hudlin did a pretty bad job developing Shuri. Regardless of whether Coogler ended up using that version or not, in hindsight putting more ground work in the character probably would have been a good idea if the end goal was to make her more than just a supporting character. Similar to his handling of the marriage, I think Hudlin rushed things to get where he wanted to go. It worked well enough... but it could have been better.

[Marvell2100]

Fair point. Though I'd still argue the mcu takes whatever liberties they want with all characters outside the A lister. BP franchise alone has a fairly unrecognizable Shuri, Nakia, W,Kabi, and Ross. MBaku and Okoye are somewhat of a stretch too. Mcu basically makes the characters what it needs them to be for the story they are telling. Which is fine.

MCU Shuri is a lot closer to Hudlins' character than she is to Coates' Griot Shuri. Ross is pretty much the same character from Priest's version, just more badass. There were definite changes to W'Kabi and Nakia no doubt and in the case of Nakia it was for the better, so much so that Coates tried to put it in his story. Same as Shuri.

Sometimes, someone comes up with a better idea.

[XPac]

MCU Shuri is a lot closer to Hudlins' character than she is to Coates' Griot Shuri. Ross is pretty much the same character from Priest's version, just more badass. There were definite changes to W'Kabi and Nakia no doubt and in the case of Nakia it was for the better, so much so that Coates tried to put it in his story. Same as Shuri.

Sometimes, someone comes up with a better idea.

Priest would even disagree with you about MCU Ross. He was based on Chandler from Friends. Instead we got a farily generic federal agent.

And while it's fair to say MCU Shuri is a bit closer to Hudlins, she's really not like Hudlins at all either. It was basically a brand new character using the name Shuri. The young labrat with no interest in the throne is a pretty far departure from the Shuri Hudlin first gave us. Motivation wise, I'd say they're drastically opposing. I'm pretty sure Hudlin Shuri would have slapped mcu Shuri in the face for her remarks at the challenge.

But I agree.. in many instances MCU changes are an improvent (though I wouldn't say that for Ross). So it's all good, at least until you try and hamfist synergy into the comics. Then it can be messy.

[Marvell2100]

Priest would even disagree with you about MCU Ross. He was based on Chandler from Friends. Instead we got a farily generic federal agent.

And while it's fair to say MCU Shuri is a bit closer to Hudlins, she's really not like Hudlins at all either. It was basically a brand new character using the name Shuri. The young labrat with no interest in the throne is a pretty far departure from the Shuri Hudlin first gave us. Motivation wise, I'd say they're drastically opposing. I'm pretty sure Hudlin Shuri would have slapped mcu Shuri in the face for her remarks at the challenge.

But I agree.. in many instances MCU changes are an improvent (though I wouldn't say that for Ross). So it's all good, at least until you try and hamfist synergy into the comics. Then it can be messy.

Nah, Ross wasn't a generic agent in MCU as witnessed by showing how vital he was in helping defeat Killmonger. A ordinary redshirt would have been killed long ago.

[XPac]

Nah, Ross wasn't a generic agent in MCU as witnessed by showing how vital he was in helping defeat Killmonger. A ordinary redshirt would have been killed long ago.

Functionally he was more than just a red shirt. But personality wise, he was a pretty blank slate.

Irony being he was modeled after Chandler, yet is one of the few protagonists in the mcu who doesn't bother cracking a joke every now and then.

Overall he was okay ... but he wasn't Priests Ross.

[chief12d]

Nah, Ross wasn't a generic agent in MCU as witnessed by showing how vital he was in helping defeat Killmonger. A ordinary redshirt would have been killed long ago.

Of all the supporting characters that Coogler made work M’Baku and Ross are at the top of the list. At least in terms of how much I liked them compared to the comic version. Ross wasn’t a bumbling idiot who hogged panel time and he wasn’t used as the audience’s surrogate into T’Challa’a world. He was a competent, well-mannered ally from outside the kingdom who showed the morality of T’Challa. If Ross was brought back into the Panther books that’s one character I have no problem being completely reworked into his MCU counterpart.

[Ezyo1000]

Yeah... Okoye is the ride and die chick that completely vanished from the mythos during the characters most difficult time. He needs better ride and die chicks if that's all he's got.

Priest developed Ross, W'Kabi and Nakia with personality... and they were nothing like their movie counterparts. They were what the MCU story needed them to be. Which I guess is fine. Same with Shuri. Hickman actually did a pretty good job instilling Shuri with personality, but it didn't fit the young relatable Disney Princess that Disney wanted, so they went a different way. Which again is fine. Movies don't HAVE to be carbon copies of the source material.

But I will meet you half way. Even though I'm nowhere near convinced as you are that Coogler would have used the comic version of the character had Hudlin done a better job, since Coogler had an obvious willingness to disgard the personalities of the BP characters as needed, I will nonetheless agree that Hudlin did a pretty bad job developing Shuri. Regardless of whether Coogler ended up using that version or not, in hindsight putting more ground work in the character probably would have been a good idea if the end goal was to make her more than just a supporting character. Similar to his handling of the marriage, I think Hudlin rushed things to get where he wanted to go. It worked well enough... but it could have been better.

Okoye is a perfectly fine ride or die chick, she didn't abandon him at all. Its not her fault she wasn't used after priest run. Ross was the same as the comic version but less comic relief. Nakia changed for the better and yes M'Baku and w'kabi basically switched roles from the comic versions. But if Shuri had more agency, and was further developed then she could still be a disney princess (pop culture references, and snarky) while keeping her core aspects. The reason the MCU countparts appear different is because they don't have enough agency like they should of been on the comics but still they are similar to the comics minus a couple.

[MouserGrey]

I would bet good money that there are a bunch of actors right now who are privately hoping to fill Chadwick's shoes and are only keeping silent out of respect and/or pr. Are you kidding. If I had the physical attributes and only one commercial under my belt I would be. Chadwick set the bar. Ima set it higher is what I'd be telling myself. Already trying to live by his example in real life.

[XPac]

Okoye is a perfectly fine ride or die chick, she didn't abandon him at all. Its not her fault she wasn't used after priest run. Ross was the same as the comic version but less comic relief. Nakia changed for the better and yes M'Baku and w'kabi basically switched roles from the comic versions. But if Shuri had more agency, and was further developed then she could still be a disney princess (pop culture references, and snarky) while keeping her core aspects. The reason the MCU countparts appear different is because they don't have enough agency like they should of been on the comics but still they are similar to the comics minus a couple.

Yeah, Okoye didn't abandon him... she was just nowhere to be found.

The reason they have different in the MCU is because flat they serve entirely different functions. The movie needed a love interest, so they simply turned Nakia into a love interest. The movie needed a traitor, so the movie simply turned W'Kabe into a traitor. The movie needed the Wakandan equivalent of Q for T'Challa, so they turned Shuri into the Wakandan equivalent of Q. The movie literally took established names and stuck them on literally whatever roles the movie needed to fill.

Honestly if Coogler tug a LITTLE deeper he probably could have found closer approximations in some cases. Taku probably could have served as T'Challa's Q, and Melaika could have worked as a love interest. But they just grabbed bigger name characters and put them in those roles, which is fine.

[4sake Baned]

Okoye is a perfectly fine ride or die chick, she didn't abandon him at all. Its not her fault she wasn't used after priest run. Ross was the same as the comic version but less comic relief. Nakia changed for the better and yes M'Baku and w'kabi basically switched roles from the comic versions. But if Shuri had more agency, and was further developed then she could still be a disney princess (pop culture references, and snarky) while keeping her core aspects. The reason the MCU countparts appear different is because they don't have enough agency like they should of been on the comics but still they are similar to the comics minus a couple.

I agree completely for the record Nakia got combined with Melaika/Malaika & Zuri got combined with Mendinao. But we more or less know that they didn’t used Melaika & Mendinao names because marvel & there creator are/have been beeffin for years. Zuri is more Mendinao then Zuri imo. One of the reasons why I want to see a S’Yan / Zuri combined character for BP2 & a QDJ like character aswell.

[FLEX HECTIC]

Guess who's coming to dinner...


Shuri and Winter Soldier... Could it be?





Swirlers Anonymous!!!


Kevin Feige: "I mean... At some point The White Wolf does literally become a brother right!"


I kid, I kid...

[MindofShadow]

I agree completely for the record Nakia got combined with Melaika/Malaika & Zuri got combined with Mendinao. But we more or less know that they didn’t used Melaika & Mendinao names because marvel & there creator are/have been beeffin for years. Zuri is more Mendinao then Zuri imo. One of the reasons why I want to see a S’Yan / Zuri combined character for BP2 & a QDJ like character aswell.

There wasn't room, but an old head like priest Zuri would be a welcome addition to complain about the "old ways" after Wakanda opened up. But complain in a funny way, not a "scolding Coates" type of way.

I miss Zuri, Zuri is hilarious. Big strong old head uncle type Brute that kicks ass and is funny. He doesn't need a lot of panel time to be cool lol. He's a cool uncle type.

[4sake Baned]

There wasn't room, but an old head like priest Zuri would be a welcome addition to complain about the "old ways" after Wakanda opened up. But complain in a funny way, not a "scolding Coates" type of way.

I miss Zuri, Zuri is hilarious. Big strong old head uncle type Brute that kicks ass and is funny. He doesn't need a lot of panel time to be cool lol. He's a cool uncle type.

The 1st part of ya post made me think of N'Gassi lol..

I agree there wasn’t in BP1 but I definitely think there should be some in BP2 for both and yeah that’s more/less what I want from S’Yan/Zuri combo character for BP2. Give him slat pepper locs & gotee. Make him T’Challa - id reduce the age gap make him 10-15 years older then T’Challa he can be a combo of cool uncle/best-good friend/not always responsible big bro type & comic relief...