Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[chief12d]

I was responding to someone's comment about Storm's contributions to the Wakandan mythos, which is why I asked the question about the other love interests' contributions as well, because my thinking is, if you're going to call into question or analyze the contributions of one love interest, then you should also call into question the contributions of all other love interests as well. Because I feel as though it's unfairly lop-sided and not entirely fair if you don't.

That's a fair criticism to have, I don't think anyone denies that T'Challa's bench of love interests is weak. Storm had the most to offer from a narrative standpoint but in-universe I can't think of anything major that she added. Same goes for Monica, who spent most of her time as an incompetent damsel in distress.

Or Malaika who was just a diplomat/spy and NuNaki, who's a space revolutionary that died as that "other woman". So because they all basically equal in their lack of relevance in-universe we can really only compare their out-of-universe worth. In this case I feel Storm falls short. She's a better character than the others, but she hurts him the most as a brand.

[MindofShadow]

I'm talking about IN-UNIVERSE, not outside of it. Monica Lynne, Malaika and Nakia "not hurting the brand" doesn't address what each of them has brought to the table as far as Wakanda is concerned, or how they have contributed to Wakanda's mythos, or what impactful contributions they have made INSIDE THE STORIES.

Really lol?

Monica Lynne was Tchalla first love interest. She was in numerous stories unvolving her, from Avengers, McGregor, and Priest, usually as a stereotypical damsel in distress because that is just how comics were back then (so no different than MJ or Gwen Stacey). So she was in numerous stories being rescued, including in Avengers stories. With McGregor, she was the outsider in Wakanda and we got to see how she was treated by various traditional types and how T'challa defended her. Now, one of the historians like Beware/Digi will have to fine tune this comment, but McGregor EXLICITELY showed black on black love with Monica and T'challa and I doubt that was really common back then. Under Priest, Monica was one of the love interests (surprise, Priest the professional gave us 3-4... monica, storm, nikki, nakia) and was crucial to the story as it showed Nakia's craziness and showed us what happen when a super hero enters a "normal" persons life. It also directly affected T'challa, as one of the central issues of the run was his brain aneurysm and that caused him to break away from Monica to spare her.

To say Monica provided nothing to the mythos means you haven't read the mythos. At all. That is a ludacrous assertion.

Malaika was literally involved in one story and due to creator vs Marvel issues, hasn't been seen since. She was important to volume 2 and nothing more. The only reason people want her to come back is that MCU Nakia is Malaika. So it is a way to get MCU synergy without retconning anything.

So is Malaika important to the BP comic mythos? Nope. But, it is nuts she might be the most important BP female ever considering she turned into MCU Nakia. But comics, nah. Fanatics just see the potential in her because of the movie.

Nakia was one of the central villains of Priest run. Are you really arguing she isn't important lol? Her turning villain gave us insight into what the Doras were and how they were important to Wakanda. She is 100% important to the mythos... her and okoye are the OG doras. You need Nakia to show the difference in Okoye... the loyal dora vs the crazy out of control Dora. It showed us how dangerous the Dora's were considerign a 16 year old wreaked havoc on T'challa. (and need to add... she was a love interest in Nakia's brain only. Not in T'challa's)

Storm was involved int he mythos before Hudlin, she had short but important scenes with T'challa in Priests run. Then of course he is important considering she was queen. But the potential was never realized thanks to X-office shenannigans. The had a chance to be the prominent marriage at Marvel by far.

[XPac]

That's a fair criticism to have, I don't think anyone denies that T'Challa's bench of love interests is weak. Storm had the most to offer from a narrative standpoint but in-universe I can't think of anything major that she added. Same goes for Monica, who spent most of her time as an incompetent damsel in distress.

Or Malaika who was just a diplomat/spy and NuNaki, who's a space revolutionary that died as that "other woman". So because they all basically equal in their lack of relevance in-universe we can really only compare their out-of-universe worth. In this case I feel Storm falls short. She's a better character than the others, but she hurts him the most as a brand.

Honestly I'm not sure what Storm, or anyone else can add beyond what Storm added. She was a love interest and she did what love interests do ... she interacts with the character. In that capacity she probably did it better than any other character in the mythos.

Beyond that, because she was a super hero in her own right they got more milage out of her than a non super hero love interest would get.

That's pretty much it ... but what beyond that is a love interest supposed to add?

[Marvell2100]

We have to remember the pandemic is delaying several books, not just BP.

I would imagine if the BP books aren't selling super well or are heavily tied to the other books/events currently being published, then its just one of many waiting out the pandemic until the industry starts to recover.

Books released during the pandemic:

Iron 2020
Iron Man #1
Spider-Woman
Black Widow #1
Thor
Shang Chi #1
Captain America
Miles Morales Spider-Man
Amazing Spider-man
Doctor Doom
Conan: Battle For the Serpent Crown
Dr Strange
A plethora of X-titles
X of Sords event
Empire + tie-ins
Daredevil


Just sayin'...

[Marvell2100]

That's a fair criticism to have, I don't think anyone denies that T'Challa's bench of love interests is weak. Storm had the most to offer from a narrative standpoint but in-universe I can't think of anything major that she added. Same goes for Monica, who spent most of her time as an incompetent damsel in distress.

Or Malaika who was just a diplomat/spy and NuNaki, who's a space revolutionary that died as that "other woman". So because they all basically equal in their lack of relevance in-universe we can really only compare their out-of-universe worth. In this case I feel Storm falls short. She's a better character than the others, but she hurts him the most as a brand.

Weak? Steve -Mr baseball-hotdogs-apple pie -wholesome-Rogers got more play than T'Challa.

[4sake Baned]

Those are the black twitter weirdos lol. That's where I see them at least because I have yet to meet more than 1 black comic fan in real life who believes those things.

Oh ok lol .......

[chief12d]

Honestly I'm not sure what Storm, or anyone else can add beyond what Storm added. She was a love interest and she did what love interests do ... she interacts with the character. In that capacity she probably did it better than any other character in the mythos.

Beyond that, because she was a super hero in her own right they got more milage out of her than a non super hero love interest would get.

That's pretty much it ... but what beyond that is a love interest supposed to add?

In this case we're talking about what they take, not add. Storm offered T'Challa a way to be humanized as his wife and provided some levity to an otherwise stoic character. She was good in that role while it lasted and I'll never deny the quality of the Hudlin and Mcduffie takes on their romance. It's just any of the women proposed as alternatives could be that.

The distinction comes from the toxicity that surrounds the BP-Storm relationship. Many fans hate it because they feel it takes away from Storm and it leads to situations where these two strong personalities are pitted against each other, only causing more conflict. I think for many BP fans it's about taking a leap of faith that whoever takes on the solo next can put the effort in to explore new long-term romantic options that offer the same interactions Storm does, but with little of the controversy that it comes with.

[Marvell2100]

i'm here for a T'Challa-specific love interest who is absolutely not Ororo Monroe. Black People Meet Dot Com! Check!

I'm here for T'Challa being T'Challa, i.e. the most dangerous human being on Earth since Ulysses. Most dangerous man alive! Check!
I'm here for Shuri being something amazing you haven't seen before Jemelle Bonds 007! Check!
I'm here for Agents of Wakanda led by Okoye and only including Wakandans Doras! War Dogs! Bring the pain! Check!
I'm here for Zanda at all times Zanda! Win! Win! Win! Win! Win! Curb everything else! Win! Win! Win! Win! Check!

As i said, I have a strong feeling, if Marvel wanted me to take over the title, they'd have called.

My phone ain't ringing on that. Mr. Telephone Man! There's something wrong with my line!

We're behind you 100%

Wakandans!!!!!

[XPac]

In this case we're talking about what they take, not add. Storm offered T'Challa a way to be humanized as his wife and provided some levity to an otherwise stoic character. She was good in that role while it lasted and I'll never deny the quality of the Hudlin and Mcduffie takes on their romance. It's just any of the women proposed as alternatives could be that.

The distinction comes from the toxicity that surrounds the BP-Storm relationship. Many fans hate it because they feel it takes away from Storm and it leads to situations where these two strong personalities are pitted against each other, only causing more conflict. I think for many BP fans it's about taking a leap of faith that whoever takes on the solo next can put the effort in to explore new long-term romantic options that offer the same interactions Storm does, but with little of the controversy that it comes with.

I don't think ANY woman could have quite the interaction with BP that Storm did. They in a lot of ways were equals, and that gave a certain power couple vibe which I'm not sure can be replicated with anyone else.
.
Though I enjoyed Monica, she was a somewhat atypical dim witted damsel in distress. Any any Wakandan woman Tchalla end up with will be inherently subservient to him because of who he is. Not that this is an unworkable issue ... but that's a rough position to be in especially following Storm.

I think the easiest work around is almost the Cat Woman route. Because that's something completely different, you sort of avoid the atypical love interest pitfalls.

[dkrook]

Its easy enough to argue Tchalla gear has gotten more powerful if that's what one equates to as balance.

But really for him and all these guys in general just returning to status quo is the balance. We're talking about millionaires, gods, and kings ... an average day to them is considered a high to almost anyone else. These were the heroes other heroes wish they were. Which I suppose is part of the reason they get deconstructed more often than most ... those with the most have the most to lose.

Bruh you are engaging in oversimplification to the 8th degree! I figure you are smart to enough to know full well the point made. To date Hickman was the last writer to legitimately take BP through some isht, and somewhat balanced him back out and left him at a good place. Even Priest couldn't stick the landing bringing his run to a close. The fact remains T'Challa isn't given the real effort he deserves.

[XJlock]

Sneak peek of Black Panther Sins of the King: https://www.serialbox.com/episodes/b...edia_type=text

Another sneak peek at 27:08 to 27:54.

[XPac]

Bruh you are engaging in oversimplification to the 8th degree! I figure you are smart to enough to know full well the point made. To date Hickman was the last writer to legitimately take BP through some isht, and somewhat balanced him back out and left him at a good place. Even Priest couldn't stick the landing bringing his run to a close. The fact remains T'Challa isn't given the real effort he deserves.

Priest and Hudlin did end up with pretty rough landingd. They started him off well and ended their runs with him in pretty bad shape. Priest ended it with him dethroned with an incurable brain aneurism, while Hudlin left him depowered, dethroned and just out of a coma.

Maeberry left BP a little better off than he got him, with BP getting a power upgrade ... but Wakanda was in worst shape with the loss of vibranium.

Hickman created the illusion that his run ended up well, but because his run ended in the past all the bad stuff he put Wakanda through still happened.

Coates obviously remains to be seen. But at least as of now both Tchalla and Wakanda seem in okay shape... I suppose there's still time for something bad to happen. But given he's being used in Avengers I'm not expecting it.

[Ezyo1000]

Honestly I'm not sure what Storm, or anyone else can add beyond what Storm added. She was a love interest and she did what love interests do ... she interacts with the character. In that capacity she probably did it better than any other character in the mythos.

Beyond that, because she was a super hero in her own right they got more milage out of her than a non super hero love interest would get.

That's pretty much it ... but what beyond that is a love interest supposed to add?

Look at what the BP mythos added to Storm and tell me what a LI is supposed to add. Or is it just a one way street when it comes to T'Challa?

[XPac]

Look at what the BP mythos added to Storm and tell me what a LI is supposed to add. Or is it just a one way street when it comes to T'Challa?

Not completely a one way street ... just mostly one. The BP books used Storm far more than the Xmen books used BP ... though that's not shocking given Xmen is a team book while BP is a solo. 90% of the relationship existed in the BP mythos ... Xmen books just referenced it once in awhile.

[skyvolt2000]

That's pretty much it ... but what beyond that is a love interest supposed to add?

What has Lois Lane and Catwoman added?

What about Betty & Veronica?

What about Mary Jane?

What about Harley?

All have held solos starring THEM.
All have had minis, one shots and specials about THEM.

And that is NOT counting Jessica Jones, Sue Storm, Scarlet Witch, Black Canary, Hawkwoman, Mera, Starfire, Gwen Stacey, Cheryl from Archie, Sabrina Teen Witch, Noble's wife (Lion Forge), Medusa, Jean Grey, Emma Frost, Rogue & Dr McTaggert.

FUNNY the black ones Bumblebee, Vixen, Misty, Storm, Monica and Nakia haven't sniffed what these ladies had.