Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Ezyo1000]

Here's the thing... just because a nation is immune to western influence doesn't mean it can't have a lot of the same problems that the rest of the planet has. Things like rape, crime, and human trafficing occured long before the notion of "western" influence had any meaning.

Wakandans, despite however tall or advanced their sky scrappers are, still are human beings. In Priests run we had villages on the verge of warefare because Doras would date. So the notion that Wakanda is Utopia is itself a retcon... that went against established continuity just as much as anything any other writer has done. And quite honestly that's fine... in fiction you are allowed to do that. You can argue every single BP writer did to one extent or another.

The plus side of that being maybe the next writer will decide that Wakanda is better than the rest of the world all this realism and cynacism will just go away. Unless of course the next next writer decides to go the other way. For better or for worse, none of this is in stone ... which isn't necessarily a good thing, but it is what it is.

Funny how you gloss over the whole Columbus, slave trade, and 2000 years of slavery allegories then try to say that they still will experience the same stuff as the rest of the world. Did I say Wakanda should be free of crime? No. But show me another book that had rape treehouses, blatant ones, show mean nation that went from reaching to the Stars to (unexplained) complete chaos, a place that established continuity has shown that women are just as equal in power and authority as men but then all of a sudden, there is gender inequality, misogyny, etc in a spiritually and technologically advanced nation. They just fall to chaos and start raping each other? Bullisht

As for the Utopia being a retcon, not really, Lee and Kirby established Wakanda as a Utopia pretty much form the jump. Priest did it to add more complexity to Wakanda, which is fine to add conflict so long as it makes sense.

As for it going away. Yes it will.. but not really because the run still exists so people can still read this a decade from now. This whole run has done nothing but add terrible "world building" shade throwing, and comical levels of feats and praise to characters who aren't even apart of the mythos. Point blank this run isna dumpster fire

[Blind Wedjat]

Coates will NEVER write Cap as anything other than the aspirational, perfect white boy that he is because Marvel editorial doesn't want to face any more backlash after the Hydra Cap fiasco. With his increased popularity after the MCU, they wouldn't try that **** again.

Unfortunately Black Panther is fair game.

[Redjack]

Fantastic story and would be GODLIKE in animation. A dc styled animated movie of See Wakanda and Doe with Tchalla in his true brilliant cold blooded glory

Redjack... ..

1) Hell, yes, i'd love to see that. After Priest's initial arc that's my favorite BP story.

2) I'm not the guy for that. I've no interest in adapting other people's stories from comics to film, TV or animation.

[Ezyo1000]

Man of Steel didn't reject the idea a hero can be aspirational. It just showed such a thing isn't as easy as people believe.

Superman being the pinnacle of perfection has never really been the case. Every version of the character has had flaws.

And while I do understand the issues some have with Coates, Priest can be pretty damn cynical in his work too. Just read Deathstroke or his Justice League run or what he's said about Wonder Woman and Nightwing in the past.

No one is saying that it should be easy, but what Digi is saying is that this whole trope where every hero is is piece of isht to some degree and no one can thrive to be the best of humanity because people love misery. Hence why slave movies and other depressing isht is so popular with people.

But thing is, in the MCU T'Challa represents the best of all of us, and frankly its fine in a way that resembles what Priest had Ross say about T'Challa

[DigiCom]

No one is saying that it should be easy, but what Digi is saying is that this whole trope where every hero is is piece of isht to some degree and no one can thrive to be the best of humanity because people love misery. Hence why slave movies and other depressing isht is so popular with people.

That's pretty close, yeah.

Our current BP writer talks about kids growing up wanting to be Spider-Man. But what he (and so many others) seem to forget is that Peter is loved not only because he has the same flaws as his readers…

…but because he rises ABOVE them.

Heroes are meant to inspire us... and frankly, there really aren't many super-powered protagonists out there that are truly worth emulating, even in the MCU.

I'd put T'Challa at the top of the list... everywhere except his own comic (I can't really speak on his other 616 appearances. I don't read them). In the movies and cartoons, he's a man of compassion, courage & wisdom.

In the Coates comic… he isn't.

And THAT is my problem.

[Ezyo1000]

That's pretty close, yeah.

Our current BP writer talks about kids growing up wanting to be Spider-Man. But what he (and so many others) seem to forget is that Peter is loved not only because he has the same flaws as his readers…

…but because he rises ABOVE them.

Heroes are meant to inspire us... and frankly, there really aren't many super-powered protagonists out there that are truly worth emulating, even in the MCU.

I'd put T'Challa at the top of the list... everywhere except his own comic (I can't really speak on his other 616 appearances. I don't read them). In the movies and cartoons, he's a man of compassion, courage & wisdom.

In the Coates comic… he isn't.

And THAT is my problem.

you know the Funny thing is, right now, a extremely popular manga/anime is my hero academia, it's Japan's superhero genre theme book/animation out there and you know what that series provides? The protagonist (abd his Supporting cast) represent the evst of humanity, yes they make mistakes, but they aren't these terrible ishtty characters who are selfish and "realistic" aka cynical. One of the main characters all-might "the symbol of peace" he is hope, he does the right thing regardless, he saves people with a smile on his face. People love that. Why? Because it's something to aspire to. People want to escape life for a bit hence why fantasy is around, who wants to divulge on escapism that's the same as real life with heroes that struggle the same but they are supposed to be super? That's depressing and people don't want that. Hence why BP was so monumentally popular and was a cultural movement

Coates T'Challa is neither compassionate Wise or courageous, he is like read Richards (the whole rather be In A lab then being responsible for anything else) but doesn't get to show off his genius. He doesn't inspire hope or courage, Coates said that goes to Storm. He doesn't care about his people, or Wakanda Coates had said that throughout the series. He is self centered and what's to run from responsibilities but can't since he was given the crown (also not true, he had to earn it) I mean Coates T'Challa, if this was a new character without any history, his World is something to NOT aspire to, he would not be a likable character, he would be a pretty useless weak protagonist

[Marvell2100]

That's pretty close, yeah.

Our current BP writer talks about kids growing up wanting to be Spider-Man. But what he (and so many others) seem to forget is that Peter is loved not only because he has the same flaws as his readers…

…but because he rises ABOVE them.

Heroes are meant to inspire us... and frankly, there really aren't many super-powered protagonists out there that are truly worth emulating, even in the MCU.

I'd put T'Challa at the top of the list... everywhere except his own comic (I can't really speak on his other 616 appearances. I don't read them). In the movies and cartoons, he's a man of compassion, courage & wisdom.

In the Coates comic… he isn't.

And THAT is my problem.

Yes to this post.

Super heroes have flaws and comics are about how superheroes overcome these flaws and inspire us. Coates has outright created flaws that Black Panther and Wakanda never had before and exaggerated them to a point where the characters aren't recognizable anymore.

Then, he's made T'Challa so ineffectual that he can't put his socks own without help. Then in a situation where he actually needs help, he turns to dictators for advice.

Let's not forget that an intergalactic armada consisting of five galaxies is about to invade Earth and T'Challa recruits a bunch of street-level heroes(minus Storm) for help. What the frak are Luke Cage, Misty and Falcon going to do? I already know the answer so no need to reply to this question.

[Cville]

Yes to this post.

Super heroes have flaws and comics are about how superheroes overcome these flaws and inspire us. Coates has outright created flaws that Black Panther and Wakanda never had before and exaggerated them to a point where the characters aren't recognizable anymore.

Then, he's made T'Challa so ineffectual that he can't put his socks own without help. Then in a situation where he actually needs help, he turns to dictators for advice.

Let's not forget that an intergalactic armada consisting of five galaxies is about to invade Earth and T'Challa recruits a bunch of street-level heroes(minus Storm) for help. What the frak are Luke Cage, Misty and Falcon going to do? I already know the answer so no need to reply to this question.

The support team that is needed?

[DigiCom]

The support team that is needed?

[Img]https://pm1.narvii.com/6552/ab1817979b244b21d8758c86ad4f4b497d87d96a_hq.jpg[/ig]

Or he could call on some old friends:

[XPac]

Funny how you gloss over the whole Columbus, slave trade, and 2000 years of slavery allegories then try to say that they still will experience the same stuff as the rest of the world. Did I say Wakanda should be free of crime? No. But show me another book that had rape treehouses, blatant ones, show mean nation that went from reaching to the Stars to (unexplained) complete chaos, a place that established continuity has shown that women are just as equal in power and authority as men but then all of a sudden, there is gender inequality, misogyny, etc in a spiritually and technologically advanced nation. They just fall to chaos and start raping each other? Bullisht

As for the Utopia being a retcon, not really, Lee and Kirby established Wakanda as a Utopia pretty much form the jump. Priest did it to add more complexity to Wakanda, which is fine to add conflict so long as it makes sense.

As for it going away. Yes it will.. but not really because the run still exists so people can still read this a decade from now. This whole run has done nothing but add terrible "world building" shade throwing, and comical levels of feats and praise to characters who aren't even apart of the mythos. Point blank this run isna dumpster fire

Wakanda wasn't Utopia from the jump... originally T'Challa was the one who was responsible for it becoming technologically advanced. That was the double edged sword of Hudlin's retcon... the upside being it made more sense. THe downside being it took away arguably T'Challa's most unique feat. And despite it's technological advances, it had it's share of social problems (like any place might and should). When you're taking underage teenage girls to act as wives in training to avoid tribal conflict, there's something seriously wrong there. And that sort of thing is great for storytelling... just not what most would think of when they imagine Utopia.

[XPac]

Coates will NEVER write Cap as anything other than the aspirational, perfect white boy that he is because Marvel editorial doesn't want to face any more backlash after the Hydra Cap fiasco. With his increased popularity after the MCU, they wouldn't try that **** again.

Unfortunately Black Panther is fair game.

If marvel editorial had issues with backlash from fans, they wouldn't have had Hydra Cap in the first place.

I think Secret Empire proved that ANY character is fair game. If freaking Captain America can become a facist dictator, then I'm not sure there even is such a thing as editorial protection beyond marvel liking the story enough. Heck, you had Spider-Man making deals with the devil back in the day. And yeah that got backlash too... but that's clearly not something marvel is afraid of if they believe in the story.

[XPac]

Is "See Wakanda and Die" a good story?

It's probably my single favorite BP story. Made me wish Aaron would get a legit run on the book sometime.

And I think it's also a text book example of how to write a GOOD event cross over. It losely ties into the main story but still largely does it's own thing. I don't think you even need to read Secret Invasion (though having at least a broad understanding of the event is helpful).

[Cville]

Or he could call on some old friends:

Monica's been downgraded back to human(but with her normal powers), Blue would probably reject blowing up ships in mass, I can't remember if America can survive the vacuum of space. Marvel is useful, but she's got a good thing going in her own book.

[XPac]

Monica's been downgraded back to human(but with her normal powers), Blue would probably reject blowing up ships in mass, I can't remember if America can survive the vacuum of space. Marvel is useful, but she's got a good thing going in her own book.

Even Monica back to normal is still one of the most powerful characters in comics. Man for man the Annihilators are far more powerful than the Ultimates, but they'd still be pretty useful. And I given their association with T'CHalla, it's far more likely he would contact them than the Annihilators. That said, given he's leader of the Avengers I think we KNOW who his first call for help would be from.

BUt I get NOT calling the Avengers. Honestly they get plenty of panel time. Using less used characters, even if it makes sense, it's the worst thing in the world.

[Cville]

Even Monica back to normal is still one of the most powerful characters in comics. Man for man the Annihilators are far more powerful than the Ultimates, but they'd still be pretty useful. And I given their association with T'CHalla, it's far more likely he would contact them than the Annihilators. That said, given he's leader of the Avengers I think we KNOW who his first call for help would be from.

BUt I get NOT calling the Avengers. Honestly they get plenty of panel time. Using less used characters, even if it makes sense, it's the worst thing in the world.

If she's human, fighting in space would be a problem when she gets tired.