Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[XPac]

Yes. In a fictional universe, Wakanda is indeed a place. So discussing how "realistic" it is as a concept is disingenuous at best.

It can be anything. So what's so great about making it reflect the worst parts of reality? And why in the hell would "some kid" want to read about that?

If it's fictional, then it can be whatever the writer wants it to be. And that's the point... it can be anything. It was be what Hudlin wants it to be, or what Coates wants it to be or anything in between.

That's why I usually don't waste time complaining about it either way. WHich isn't to say I don't believe fiction shouldn't have rules... it hurts the story if it doesn't. But it's just as valid to reflect on the worst parts of reality as it is the best. In fact for fiction I would dare argue it makes more sense to focus on the worst especially in super hero comics.... but hey, whatever floats the writers boat.

[DigiCom]

To me, that just means there's more than 1 inspirational person in the story. Movie T'Challa had plenty of help... heck, he was dead for like a quarter of the movie. That fact didn't stop people from being inspired by him... just meant that plenty could be inspired by people like Shuri too. It's not like it's a contest pitting the characters AGAINST each other. You can find more than one character heroic.

So who is the heroic character in Coates run?

Taxicab Eden?
Deus ex Griot?
The Midnight Radical Feminists?
The Goddess of Being Ignored by the X-Office?

[Mr MajestiK]

Wakanda wasn't Utopia from the jump... originally T'Challa was the one who was responsible for it becoming technologically advanced. That was the double edged sword of Hudlin's retcon... the upside being it made more sense. THe downside being it took away arguably T'Challa's most unique feat. And despite it's technological advances, it had it's share of social problems (like any place might and should). When you're taking underage teenage girls to act as wives in training to avoid tribal conflict, there's something seriously wrong there. And that sort of thing is great for storytelling... just not what most would think of when they imagine Utopia.

Do you know what the age of sexual consent is in the United kingdom?

For those that dont know, it's Sixteen.

So can we now dispense with this silly morality non-starter that's been pushed by some for a minority of readers for awhile now.

[XPac]

So who is the heroic character in Coates run?

Taxicab Eden?
Deus ex Griot?
The Midnight Radical Feminists?
The Goddess of Being Ignored by the X-Office?

Honestly I'd say yes to pretty much all of the above (though in the Midnight Angels case they did a lot of terrible stuff too). If you're going out there risking your life to save people, you're being heroic.

[DigiCom]

In fact for fiction I would dare argue it makes more sense to focus on the worst especially in super hero comics.

*blink* *blink*

OK, I got nothing.

The most escapist genre in fiction should show societies in the worst possible light?

No thanks.

[Mr MajestiK]

If marvel editorial had issues with backlash from fans, they wouldn't have had Hydra Cap in the first place.

I think Secret Empire proved that ANY character is fair game. If freaking Captain America can become a facist dictator, then I'm not sure there even is such a thing as editorial protection beyond marvel liking the story enough. Heck, you had Spider-Man making deals with the devil back in the day. And yeah that got backlash too... but that's clearly not something marvel is afraid of if they believe in the story.

And yet, as usual, the fact that neither Steve Roger's or Peter Parker have never been left in a position of perpetual failure for ongoing or concurrent runs as has been the case for T'Challa under Coates misdirection.

Captain America lost none of his overall potency, tactical awareness or overall will to win even whilst corrupted.

Post Hudlin 9r even Liss, when was the last time T'Challa was portrayed as anything other than a complete and utter failure within the pages of his own solo book?

[XPac]

*blink* *blink*

OK, I got nothing.

The most escapist genre in fiction should show societies in the worst possible light?

No thanks.

Obviously this is subjective but yes... I personally do think showing the worst of society makes for a more fertile ground for super hero stories. The better the world is, the less you actually need the super heroes. But again, whatever floats the writers boat... there's no right or wrong answer there.

[Mr MajestiK]

Uhh yeah Lee and Kirby's introduction to Wakanda was a Utopia, Priest somewhat changed that to be more complex (which is fine as it made sense and when it came down to it, Wakanda was United when threats came to their doorstep)

But your trying to claim that the Utopia was a retcon when it wasn't. It was to start with the FF then it deviated then realigned with Hudlin.

I never said Priest version was a Utopia. Your not reading what im saying and just answering however you please. Also having social issues doesn't mean forcing things into the mythos thst go against established continuity and against the very core of said mythos

I would have thought that by now, it's become pretty obvious that actually paying attention to, and respecting the BP mythos, is a bridge too far for some readers and writers alike.

[Marvell2100]

So who is the heroic character in Coates run?

Taxicab Eden?
Deus ex Griot?
The Midnight Radical Feminists?
The Goddess of Being Ignored by the X-Office?

Tetu and Zenzi apparently.

[Ezyo1000]

If this is an alien invasion it technically doesn't fall under just THEIR issues. At that point in theory he probably should call the Avengers as it's potentially a thread to the whole planet. The rest of the planet, even without T'Challa asking realistically should be reacting to this. But it's not an Avengers story, so it's fair game for Coates to leave them and the rest of the world out of it.

Except Coates isn't leaving the rest of the world out ofnit. He brought in Storm, Eden, Riri, Monica Cage, Misty and Sam. Most of them aren't even the best people or ideal really for the job yet he injected them into a Wakandan issue. So again, crazy thought, what if T'Challa and Wakanda handled their issues themselves instead of calling for help?

[Vibranium Weave]

Obviously this is subjective but yes... I personally do think showing the worst of society makes for a more fertile ground for super hero stories. The better the world is, the less you actually need the super heroes. But again, whatever floats the writers boat... there's no right or wrong answer there.

Uhhh....there is a wrong when most of the audience has stopped caring about the character. The latest sales for BP have been 14k to 15k range. It was around 18.5k in August 2019. Fans of BP have left the book. People are tired of T'Coates. If he was the "renown" Black writer, we would have another creative team by now.

Priest and Hudlin never got this low in sales.

[Marvell2100]

Except Coates isn't leaving the rest of the world out ofnit. He brought in Storm, Eden, Riri, Monica Cage, Misty and Sam. Most of them aren't even the best people or ideal really for the job yet he injected them into a Wakandan issue. So again, crazy thought, what if T'Challa and Wakanda handled their issues themselves instead of calling for help?

Maybe T'Challa should have brought in The Yancy Street Gang to help.

[Ezyo1000]

You're were calling Wakanda Utopia. Utopia literally means that everything is perfect.

If you merely mean technologically advanced, then we're not disagree with anything and we can move on.

A utopia (/juːˈtoʊpiə/ yoo-TOH-pee-ə) is an imagined community or society that possesses highly desirable or nearly perfect qualities for its citizens. The opposite of a utopia is a dystopia

Hmmm, doesn't say anything about there not being issues bruh..

[XPac]

Except Coates isn't leaving the rest of the world out ofnit. He brought in Storm, Eden, Riri, Monica Cage, Misty and Sam. Most of them aren't even the best people or ideal really for the job yet he injected them into a Wakandan issue. So again, crazy thought, what if T'Challa and Wakanda handled their issues themselves instead of calling for help?

For the same reason that any other stories have guest characters... because a writer wants them to.

It's like asking why does the US need foreign heroes instead of only american heroes deal with their problems. Because most writers probably don't care what country a super hero is from. If they want to use them, they use them.

[XPac]

A utopia (/juːˈtoʊpiə/ yoo-TOH-pee-ə) is an imagined community or society that possesses highly desirable or nearly perfect qualities for its citizens. The opposite of a utopia is a dystopia

Hmmm, doesn't say anything about there not being issues bruh..

You're missing the part about near perfect qualities.

And that's why you never see Utopia in fiction. If everything is perfect, or even near perfect there's usually not enough conflict to justify an actual story.