Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[MindofShadow]

It's still not the same thing. T'Chaka never had an entire comic book run dedicated to himself. He's always been a plot device and supporting character to T'Challa's origin story. His entire character exploration is that he is assassinated when T'Challa is young and that starts the process of T'Challa becoming king and Black Panther.

Same goes for Kasper. It was a limited time he was imitating T'Challa for plot reasons. Kasper never had his own comic book.

Shuri is the only one that kinda makes sense. Her tenure as Black Panther in publication years is a lot longer than T'Chaka or Kasper's. She was also given the mantle when T'Challa was temporarily indisposed. T'Challa was however brought back and both of them were Black Panther with Shuri being Wakanda's queen and T'Challa being 'King of the Dead'. She was later 'killed' in Time Runs Out and that was the last time she was Black Panther. In publication years she had the mantle foyr about 4-5 years. For 3-4 of those years, T'Challa was also Black Panther. She's also had her own limited series but not as the Black Panther either.

So yes, for more than 50 years T'Challa has commonly been the Black Panther. You're making it sound more like it's been a Green Lantern or Ghost Rider situation, which it hasn't been.

He's only been replaced once by Shuri. T'Chaka is just his predecessor and Kasper was being used as a pawn. "Many times" is seriously a stretch.

Thank you. God, I feel like I am going crazy in here lol.

"Kasper was black panther." Jesus christ, that is so wrong lol. Better off using Killmonger since he was black panther for like 3 issues.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Seriously.

You have 6 months into production. Really I'd say 3. Alternate Universe T'Challa could be Daniel Kaluuya for all you know.

However, those upset are you willing to make noise at Marvel and Disney? Are you willing to go to the levels of #ReleasetheSnyderCut to go about getting what you want? Are you willing to pull a Sonic and totally object so much they push the movie back until its fixed?

Unless people are willing to go about real change then its best to wait to see how it plays out. However, NOW is the time if you really want to fight for T'Challa.

Flood Lupita's account, flood Danai's account, flood Feige's account, etc etc.

[Dboi654]

He's only been replaced once by Shuri. T'Chaka is just his predecessor and Kasper was being used as a pawn. "Many times" is seriously a stretch.

I know. I was just puzzled by that sentence.

[MindofShadow]

Has there been any hints how long Aaron is on Avengers?

[Ekie]

You do know that in-universe, T'Challa is just the latest in a long line of Black Panthers, right? The mantle has always been bigger than one man.

Who is this person trying to educate us on the Black Panther Mythos LOL

[Ekie]

The title is Black Panther, not T'Challa. It's true that BP has mainly been T'Challa, but it's a mantle which has been based to characters before, like Shuri and Kasper and many others in the past. All they need to do is pass the mantle in the MCU to another character, even in the MCU it's never been a sole title of T'Challa we've had T'Chaka on screen in that capacity. They have suitable replacements lined up, or they can make one. It's sad that Boseman's death has sidelined T'Challa and we don't know how they're going to play it until the sequel comes out. They could do anything, from body doubles and having T'Challa stay on the sidelines, like letting him decide someone else should take his duties as the Panther while he is king - which might buy time to eventually let the public get over the loss to let someone else be recast as T'Challa. But this is far from the end of Black Panther in the MCU.

And the title of the Batman movies is Batman not Bruce Wayne. You're not making any points

[Ekie]

MCU T'Challa development was very different from the Comics? Why are you mad at Coogler for making his character make sense? 10 steps ahead T'Challa had years of hard decision making that allowed him to grow into that T'Challa. Based on how Disney/Russos started his development it made the most sense for T'Challa.

They are/were actually creating a 3 movie arc for the character. Characters being perfect renditions in the 1st film are boring and doesnt allow for as much growth anyway.

Im talking about his core characteristics. If you approach a character with the thought of "hes too perfect lets water him down a bit" then you are not helping that character. We dont like it when non black unfans do it with Tchalla so why should we accept it from black unfans who are more eager to explore the environment than the titular character? Giving Shuri credit for wakandan development is unforgivable in my eyes. It completely devalued Tchalla to the general public in what was supposed to be his grand entrance to the general public. And now the general public views Shuri as the LEAST indispensable aspect of Tchallas franchise. There is no denying that.

[Ekie]

I hear theres a Tchalla petition going around. Can anyonefind it? I know they are meaningless but marvel is CLEARLY susceptible to vocal public response

[Frontier]

Has there been any hints how long Aaron is on Avengers?

I've seen some speculation the Phoenix arc might be the climax of his run, but nothing firm.

[Vanguard]

I hear theres a Tchalla petition going around. Can anyonefind it? I know they are meaningless but marvel is CLEARLY susceptible to vocal public response

Wait til their wallet gets hit, that speaks louder than words.

[Steel Inquisitor]

It's still not the same thing. T'Chaka never had an entire comic book run dedicated to himself. He's always been a plot device and supporting character to T'Challa's origin story. His entire character exploration is that he is assassinated when T'Challa is young and that starts the process of T'Challa becoming king and Black Panther.

T'Chaka is the official predecessor to T'Challa in Marvel lore, that's all there is to it.

Same goes for Kasper. It was a limited time he was imitating T'Challa for plot reasons. Kasper never had his own comic book.

Kasper illegitimately took up the mantle when T'Challa disappeared then was temporarily backed by T'Challa himself. The time limit and format have nothing to do with anything.

Shuri is the only one that kinda makes sense. Her tenure as Black Panther in publication years is a lot longer than T'Chaka or Kasper's. She was also given the mantle when T'Challa was temporarily indisposed. T'Challa was however brought back and both of them were Black Panther with Shuri being Wakanda's queen and T'Challa being 'King of the Dead'. She was later 'killed' in Time Runs Out and that was the last time she was Black Panther. In publication years she had the mantle foyr about 4-5 years. For 3-4 of those years, T'Challa was also Black Panther. She's also had her own limited series but not as the Black Panther either.

Kind of makes sense? It's not like she was the Black Leopard during that period. She was T'Challa's successor. She gets the mantle, he takes it back - that still makes her a Black Panther. And T'Challa was Daredevil briefly, that didn't make him not Black Panther. How long people had the mantle isn't relevant.

So yes, for more than 50 years T'Challa has commonly been the Black Panther. You're making it sound more like it's been a Green Lantern or Ghost Rider situation, which it hasn't been.

My argument wasn't that T'Challa didn't have the mantle the longest, my argument was that its a mantle based down the generations and has more people as Black Panther than simply T'Challa. Next you'll be telling me Dick Grayson was never Batman in the comics (he did this twice). The mantle's more like the Iron Fist's.

Forgot that Killmonger had the mantle for a while in Priest's run, too.

And the title of the Batman movies is Batman not Bruce Wayne. You're not making any points

Sure I am, I'm being gaslit here. You do remember in Dark Knight Rises when Bruce passed the mantle to Robin? The fact the movies didn't do a legacy that much didn't not make the mantle a legacy, there have been more than one Batman in the comics. Jean-Paul Valley, Jim Gordon and Dick Grayson are three of them. If the movies ever want to go this route nothing stopping them.

[Ezyo1000]

Im talking about his core characteristics. If you approach a character with the thought of "hes too perfect lets water him down a bit" then you are not helping that character. We dont like it when non black unfans do it with Tchalla so why should we accept it from black unfans who are more eager to explore the environment than the titular character? Giving Shuri credit for wakandan development is unforgivable in my eyes. It completely devalued Tchalla to the general public in what was supposed to be his grand entrance to the general public. And now the general public views Shuri as the LEAST indispensable aspect of Tchallas franchise. There is no denying that.

I'd like to see This interview that keeps being thrown around. Nothing about what Coogler has said has hinted that he doesnt like T'Challa. Ontop of that, just based on what we saw in the movie it's clear that Shuri isn't the developer of Wakandas advancements because Wakanda was already advanced before she was even born. Currently she is the overseerer of Wakandan development, and I will give you that I don't like that T'Challa doesn't seem to be a super genius in the same vein or as obvious as one like inl would like. I very much would of appreciated more than just mention of his design of the habit. But I don't agree with the idea that T'Challa is more dispensable to Shuri or anything like that. I just don't believe it. I think Disney is jumping the gun and not giving this more time

[Ezyo1000]

T'Chaka is the official predecessor to T'Challa in Marvel lore, that's all there is to it.



Kasper illegitimately took up the mantle when T'Challa disappeared then was temporarily backed by T'Challa himself. The time limit and format have nothing to do with anything.



Kind of makes sense? It's not like she was the Black Leopard during that period. She was T'Challa's successor. She gets the mantle, he takes it back - that still makes her a Black Panther. And T'Challa was Daredevil briefly, that didn't make him not Black Panther. How long people had the mantle isn't relevant.



My argument wasn't that T'Challa didn't have the mantle the longest, my argument was that its a mantle based down the generations and has more people as Black Panther than simply T'Challa. Next you'll be telling me Dick Grayson was never Batman in the comics (he did this twice). The mantle's more like the Iron Fist's.

Forgot that Killmonger had the mantle for a while in Priest's run, too.



Sure I am, I'm being gaslit here. You do remember in Dark Knight Rises when Bruce passed the mantle to Robin? The fact the movies didn't do a legacy that much didn't not make the mantle a legacy, there have been more than one Batman in the comics. Jean-Paul Valley, Jim Gordon and Dick Grayson are three of them. If the movies ever want to go this route nothing stopping them.

Uh it kinda is relevant Because your trying to claim that characters who combined publication history (3 of then T'Chaka, Shuri, and Kasper, hell through in Azzari and killmonger just to humor you) don't even match up to the time Jane was Thor, somehow hold enough legitimacy to take over the mantle in the MCU and become the new faces for the franchise, is ridiculous. To leap frog the title holder over the guise of its a mantle to pass on, when realistically people care the most about T'Challa it's about his rule and how he changes Wakanda forever and for the better and exploring his story. And yeah dick took over the mantle of Batman, you don't see anyone calling for him to take over on the movie side despite it being a mantle. Why is T'Challa the exception?

[Marvell2100]

This ignores that in those 50 years many others have been Black panther in the comics. T'Chaka, Shuri, and Kasper. But they still took over the mantle, it didn't stop being a thing when T'Challa wasn't in it. T'Challa himself was Daredevil for a while.

I'd prefer they recast but Marvel's heavily implying T'Challa's journey as BP won't be front and centre any longer because they feel it would be disrespectful. This isn't about "should" it's about "is."

Nobody knows T'Challa's status quo in the MCU right now, but we do know the chances of him having a successor picking up the mantle is far more likely since they're not burning the movie franchise and T'Challa can;'t be the focus any longer with Boseman to them. T'Challa doesn't have to be dead to do this.

It doesn't ignore anything. During Black Panther's entire publication history, these other characters have been Black Panther for 15 minutes.

One more time. T'Challa is not dead. There is no need to get rid of the character just because Marvel is afraid to replace Boseman.

[Marvell2100]

Uh it kinda is relevant Because your trying to claim that characters who combined publication history (3 of then T'Chaka, Shuri, and Kasper, hell through in Azzari and killmonger just to humor you) don't even match up to the time Jane was Thor, somehow hold enough legitimacy to take over the mantle in the MCU and become the new faces for the franchise, is ridiculous. To leap frog the title holder over the guise of its a mantle to pass on, when realistically people care the most about T'Challa it's about his rule and how he changes Wakanda forever and for the better and exploring his story. And yeah dick took over the mantle of Batman, you don't see anyone calling for him to take over on the movie side despite it being a mantle. Why is T'Challa the exception?

Totally agree. There is some serious reaching going on.