Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Mr MajestiK]

Writing 101 - Set Up and Payoff


If you read the book From Krakow to Krypton: Jews and Comic Books by Arie Kaplan whom I met (He's a friend of a friend) after a lecture he gave at the Skirball he goes into deep detail about the origins of the super hero genre!


Superman who puts the word "Super" in super heroes is a savior prototype with a Hebrew name (Kal el) who uses the name "Clark Kent" to hide his identity much in the same way many persecuted Jews used certain names to conceal their own heritage!


Stan Lee = Stanley Lieber

Jack Kirby = Jacob Kurtzberg

Clark Kent = Kal El


The reason why many super heroes wore masks in the early days was based on this reasoning thus a form of "Self Portrait" originated even if by default!


If you then study the behavioral patterns of both Stan Lee and Jack Kirby you can often tell the differences between their created or co-created characters!


Stan Lee is the engaging consummate people person while Jack Kirby is the more New York City rough and tough gritty character that only true gangster movie fans could appreciate!


Characters that they created separate from each other reveal this where as those that they collaborated on share both traits... Notice the humorous wit from Stan Lee's influence matched with the hardcore aggressiveness from Jack Kirby!


When these two combined they made a lovechild called Black Panther...


Since most black writers are not necessarily Jewish or a New York native for that matter there comes a dilemma about whether a mask concealing the identity of a black super hero has the same effect as it does for a Hebrew begotten writer's depiction!


Hint: Most black folks can't really hide their true identities because you lead with your face unless you are very light skinned and can pass for white as a white Jewish person may have!


If you compare today's industry writers to the past it does not even come close to that majesty so most will just borrow heavily from the previous era and try to add in their own "agenda" which sometimes creates a convoluted mess!


Get Woke Go Broke...


Yes, many professional writer's of today frown upon certain methods of writing but cannot hold a candle to yesteryear's giants whom they are eating off of and paying the rent from!


You will also notice a lack of original content worthy of what the G.O.A.T.'s (Greatest Of All Time) created versus the one and done producers that fall off the map every time a alleged blockbuster does not rise to meet expectations!


Terminator Dark Fate... Charlies Angels... etc. etc.


Right now the professional writers are sinking the comic book industry wholesale and basically struggling through reboots of old projects with no new original thoughts of their own because they really do not believe in the old school characters as they should!


Due to various agendas in Hollywood it seems more like creators want to make political statements that have very little to do with super heroes so they struggle soup their way through intellectual property forgetting the "Escapism" portion of why they were originally there in the first place!


And when they fail it's everybody else's fault for not supporting them rather than they not setting the dinner table properly so that generations after them can eat too!


Many black folks inject black militant ideology or black civil rights activism or the classic Tupac persona into their work and sometimes like Killmonger or Blade with the Shaft vibe it can work but mostly it falls short of the grand stage that the MCU has reached in box office value!


Black creators desperately need to find that "Self Portrait" that works well enough to sell on the open market and earn a pretty penny!


Stan Lee and Jack Kirby dead are speaking from the grave more powerfully than living creators frowning upon what built this industry for them to make a living!


If your "Self Portrait" oozes with a lack of self esteem or is influenced by an agenda that does the opposite of make money you need to borrow that Mirror Mirror On The Wall from Snow White or go see The Wizard of Oz for some heart!


Siegel and Shuster wept...


Dwayne McDuffie wiped their tears...


Wakanda Forever!

Bro, this post right here.

[Mr MajestiK]

That's the rub though ain't it? There isn't enough black skin in the game to begin with, so there's no time figure out the buttons on the controller while you work it. 4-5 doller books, 'Money Mouse' being the controlling arm over the movies... I don't see things changing.

Can go the other way too, I'm a Bronze Age guy, Jim Owsley back when kind leaned towards a bootstrap pull-up kinda guy in some of his early works. Not sayin the man hasn't changed or that he's full on FOX NEWS but he's always came across as adjacent on some level too me(speakin towards his Vampirella comments and an example).



I agree 1000% but yet and still where does that leave you? I'd have DM'd you about this over yesterday's post but maybe a response will ring for someone else. What do you do when the new books are being written by a caricaturist of a writer, yet your favorite character is more popular than ever.
Again, I'm a Bronze guy and I've been off of new books in general for years. I can sustain reading older stories pre-Hudlin that I wasn't hip to at the time, and that goes for anybody that interests me, not just BP but he's in there too.

I imagine though Maj, you've read all there is back when, even if you haven't the sense of community for a 20+ year old book isn't out there the same as it is for what's on the shelves now. So how do you get that Panther fix?

I hate to admit this my bro, but as long as Coates (or anyone like him) are given free reign to frak the BP mythos up, pre-Coates BP material is just about the only fix we have available.

[Redjack]

[COLOR="#000080"]I think a lot of this has to do with the material as well.

It's like those movie and TV shows like Empire or Power where we see male poc as gangsters and hoods even when they wear suits and ties. It's cool at first but when you start to see the copycat shows, you get a little tired of seeing the SOS.

False.

simply false.

the black audience never bothers, for the most part, to give these folks a chance. they don't even open the cover to check to see what's inside. I know because I spent YEARS championing black-made, black centered comics that didn't fit the mold you're describing and all i got back was, "These white folks are scared to make a black superman."

why are we looking at "these white folks" to do ANY of it?

i know I never have. my collection is FULL of first issues nobody remembers because they never bothered to look.

[XPac]

How do you know they didn't? I've seen examples of a villager appearing before Tchalla and their problem is investigated. If everyone can do that, wouldn't that be more efficient than voting? Like people say in America, local elections are more important than national ones. And they had the tribal council whom were selected from their villages. And that council could put the King/BP out of power if they thought something was wrong.

The Dora's weren't slaves. Who said they couldn't leave whenever they wanted?

Would appearing before Tchalla be more efficient than voting? Absolutely not. He's got better things to do. Hes out of the country half the time as is playing super hero in the states so he can't address every grievance every Wakandan might have on a given day. Wakanda needs to operate without its king for long periods of time ... it can't wait for him to fit every villagers problem into his schedule.

As far as the Dora's, it wasn't just about leaving. THe point was they were intent on leaving WITH the Midnight Angel's. And they were going to fight Tchalla for that right. He can choose to fight and possibly kill them so he can have the MA executed ( something I doubt he wants in the first place), or he can simply choose to drop the matter. He did the later, and everyone walked away with what they want.

He lost body guards he didn't need in the first place while still retaining them as assets of needed, and they got their own their own village and a chance to defend people who actually needed defending. Worked out pretty well all around.

[Marvell2100]

False.

simply false.

the black audience never bothers, for the most part, to give these folks a chance. they don't even open the cover to check to see what's inside. I know because I spent YEARS championing black-made, black centered comics that didn't fit the mold you're describing and all i got back was, "These white folks are scared to make a black superman."

why are we looking at "these white folks" to do ANY of it?

i know I never have. my collection is FULL of first issues nobody remembers because they never bothered to look.

Totally disagree. I've read books by AA authors as have many other's in and out of this thread.

But here's the thing: the book has to be good. We want to support poc creators but it has to be worth reading. Like I said, I don't watch Tyler Perry movies because imo, they just aren't good. Should I support it just because the creator is Black even though he stereotypes Black males?

No.

Same as any other media.

[Marvell2100]

@Redjack. Please recommend and post the titles and creators of some of the works you have.

This is also a problem, getting exposure for some of the creators.

[Redjack]

Totally disagree. I've read books by AA authors as have many other's in and out of this thread.

But here's the thing: the book has to be good. We want to support poc creators but it has to be worth reading. Like I said, I don't watch Tyler Perry movies because imo, they just aren't good. Should I support it just because the creator is Black even though he stereotypes Black males?

No.

Same as any other media.

this is a canard that is brought up over and over.

"why would i read it if i know it's bad?"

how would you know? you've ASSUMED it's bad before you even pick it up so you never pick it up and never have to challenge yourself to see if you were right. then you build the fiction that the POC books are "substandard" and that's why they don't need your attention.

I don't promote ANYTHING "because" black people made it or are in it. Never. I'm way harder on us than any white critic or fan.

But black comics buyers won't bother to pick the book up if they see themselves on the cover. they just don't. it's not a matter of opinion. too many people have killed their bank accounts and years of their lives trusting "If I build it, they will come."

nope.

they won't.

[Redjack]

@Redjack. Please recommend and post the titles and creators of some of the works you have.

This is also a problem, getting exposure for some of the creators.

i will when i get back to los angeles.

[Mr MajestiK]

Would appearing before Tchalla be more efficient than voting? Absolutely not. He's got better things to do. Hes out of the country half the time as is playing super hero in the states so he can't address every grievance every Wakandan might have on a given day. Wakanda needs to operate without its king for long periods of time ... it can't wait for him to fit every villagers problem into his schedule.

As far as the Dora's, it wasn't just about leaving. THe point was they were intent on leaving WITH the Midnight Angel's. And they were going to fight Tchalla for that right. He can choose to fight and possibly kill them so he can have the MA executed ( something I doubt he wants in the first place), or he can simply choose to drop the matter. He did the later, and everyone walked away with what they want.

He lost body guards he didn't need in the first place while still retaining them as assets of needed, and they got their own their own village and a chance to defend people who actually needed defending. Worked out pretty well all around.

Point of reference.

Hows that voting thing working out for most of the Western Democracies at present?

What, with all the Russian interference and all that hmmm?

Wakanda and the BP mythos got along just fine before Ta Nehisi Coates decided to inject his particular brand of retrograde "realism" into a fantasy setting.

And speaking of the Dora Milaje, did they pray tell, have a hand in developing any of the technologies that went into the creation of their unique weaponry and distinctive armour?

I merely ask because dating back to at least Jonathan Maberry in the lead up to, and during Doomwar, T'Challa was responsible for developing all of their equipment.

If they were so intent on going off on their own on their quest to cast of the non-existent yolk of T'Challa's "bondage" upon their necks, they should have done so without the aid of all the armour and weapons they stole from Wakanda.

None of the Dora Milaje were held in bondage to their King as it was seen as a distinctive honour and duty to serve as personal bodyguards to the King and by extension, Wakanda in its entirety, alongside every branch of Wakanda's security/military forces.

For discussions sake, is there anyone currently posting in this thread, who believes that a cadre of American Secret Service Agents, would be able to wake up one morning and arbitrarily decide that they wanted to set up an autonomous state independent of the USA with tech and armaments that belonged to the aforementioned USA that they had given an oath and pledge to protect at all costs?

There's a reason why the concept of a dedicated chain of command is a thing not to be taken lightly but according to some, it's okay to flout established rules and go about fomenting rebellion just because.....

The mind truly boggles at the level of goal post moving and mental gymnastics that some choose to apply when going of on tangents that have no basis in anything that preceded Ta Ta Nehisi Coates faux "woke" experimentation with a mythos he lacked the imagination to comprehend or appreciate.

A mythos that was never dependent on a torture porn descent into the horror of rape camps, misogynymor wholly manufactured gender based tension that was completely absent from the BP work that previous legendary writers put in before standards dropped.

[Mr MajestiK]

i will when i get back to los angeles.

I will definitely peruse that list and support accordingly.

[Mr MajestiK]

I just got done reading the very first issue of X-Men/Fantastic Four.

All I can say is that having read this book, anyone supporting Storm's further involvement in the affairs of Wakanda, really has ZERO love for the BP mythos or any of the core characters that have ever been part of T'Challa's supporting cast.

Coates and Storm need to be gone from the BP mythos post haste.

[BlackClaw]

I just got done reading the very first issue of X-Men/Fantastic Four.

All I can say is that having read this book, anyone supporting Storm's further involvement in the affairs of Wakanda, really has ZERO love for the BP mythos or any of the core characters that have ever been part of T'Challa's supporting cast.

Coates and Storm need to be gone from the BP mythos post haste.

Eden can beat it too. There’s nothing stopping Shuri from finding someone better.

[Marvell2100]

this is a canard that is brought up over and over.

"why would i read it if i know it's bad?"

how would you know? you've ASSUMED it's bad before you even pick it up so you never pick it up and never have to challenge yourself to see if you were right. then you build the fiction that the POC books are "substandard" and that's why they don't need your attention.

I don't promote ANYTHING "because" black people made it or are in it. Never. I'm way harder on us than any white critic or fan.

But black comics buyers won't bother to pick the book up if they see themselves on the cover. they just don't. it's not a matter of opinion. too many people have killed their bank accounts and years of their lives trusting "If I build it, they will come."

nope.

they won't.

I can't speak for anyone else but I don't judge a book until I've read it. I'll give it a few issues and if it still doesn't work then I have to drop it.

[Cville]

Would appearing before Tchalla be more efficient than voting? Absolutely not. He's got better things to do. Hes out of the country half the time as is playing super hero in the states so he can't address every grievance every Wakandan might have on a given day. Wakanda needs to operate without its king for long periods of time ... it can't wait for him to fit every villagers problem into his schedule.

As far as the Dora's, it wasn't just about leaving. THe point was they were intent on leaving WITH the Midnight Angel's. And they were going to fight Tchalla for that right. He can choose to fight and possibly kill them so he can have the MA executed ( something I doubt he wants in the first place), or he can simply choose to drop the matter. He did the later, and everyone walked away with what they want.

He lost body guards he didn't need in the first place while still retaining them as assets of needed, and they got their own their own village and a chance to defend people who actually needed defending. Worked out pretty well all around.

But yet it happens. And for that to happen Tchalla must have the free time to do it. Especially since most Avenger missions happen over the course of a few days and it only takes him a max of four hours to get home and they have world wide communications. Just like the U.S., there are government workers who nobody voted for handling day to day issues and processing.

Why were they intent of leaving with them? I don't think we heard the opinion of any Dora other than the MA. I don't even know why they left besides whatever the MA used to cover for their crimes. Isn't it the simple truth that Coates had a personal issue with Tchalla having an all female guard system because the believed no man could resist lo key rapping them?

[Cville]

I just got done reading the very first issue of X-Men/Fantastic Four.

All I can say is that having read this book, anyone supporting Storm's further involvement in the affairs of Wakanda, really has ZERO love for the BP mythos or any of the core characters that have ever been part of T'Challa's supporting cast.

Coates and Storm need to be gone from the BP mythos post haste.

I wanna see her walk into Wakanda and tell other mutants that they should go to Krakoa. Gentle is already there, but he's an X creation anyway.