THe scenes arent' the same because the rape victims didn't have the same willingness to die that she did. But Shuri was suggesting that they should have. So there's a degree of symetry there which makes Hickmans scene slighty less horrible. There's consisteny in Shuri's though process which makes it a bit more in character. A bit.
As far as that never being the topic... trace the conversation backwards because the actual topic was me being asked what scenes I personally felt were the worst. I mentioned the SHuri scene which is what the topic of discussion actually was. You're actually the tangent here, not me.
Actually what I'm saying is what Coates wrote makes Hickmans scene slightly less stupid. It retroactively makes what she did more in character by establishing that she feels others should act the same way.
I STILL think it's dumb that she should stay to fight a meaningless battle she will lose when there are thousand of other Wakandans which can potentially benefit from her help ... but if nothing else the act is more in character.
You mentioned the Shuri scene and said it was dumb that she threw her Life away, and kept on going saying that you thought it was character assassination. Yes? You also stated that you felt that scene was more damaging then the rape camp scene. Yes?
Then I asked further in the conversation. What do you think of the character assassination Coates shows in his story with Shuri this is where I show the scans of Shuri telling victim's, her own people, they should of accepted their fate of rape then death. I asked is that scene to you, as bad or worse then Hickmans scene. I had to ask that question several times because you didn't answer and instead went on to talk about how Shuris death was a bigger deal then random Wakandans dying and how you thought it was stupid that Hickman didn't make T'Challa save her.
Again I Asked a very specific question, and you kept on going to answer something I didn't even ask, yet kept quoting me
Ezyo,
Excellent posts!
I think people like Coates don't really understand martial honor, and from his writing, honor in general.
Weakness and degradation is all he has for T'Challa and Wakanda under the guise of the perennial excuse for moral depravity, "keeping it real".
He said his series wasn't going to be a "black male power fantasy" and he delivered on his promise.
https://io9.gizmodo.com/ta-nehisi-co...her-1786632598
Now most people who want to read about a Righteous Super Genius King from an African Utopia have no use for Coates' stories.
Thus those who do praise this current series do so for reasons other than a superlative showing of the titles titular protagonist or his homeland.
I'm not the biggest fan of Hickman but I appreciated the writing in the scene between Queen Shuri and T'Challa.
She went to die with honor as befits a warrior Queen!
At the end of the story, Hickman also left a restored Wakanda as a strong and inspiring nation reaching for the stars.
Coates has no use for such imagery when the motive forces in his imagination are as depicted in his writing in the middle image.
It is just sad and pathetic really.
I will NEVER be a fan of this degrading boring tripe Coates is trying to pass off.
I will ALWAYS be a fan of awesome stories of the Righteous Super Genius King from an African Utopia, T'Challa the Black Panther!
Excelsior!
Daoud
You can argue Cap in End Game was somewhat suicidal, but I wouldn't call it stupid.
It's questionable whether or not he would be able to esape even if he tried. But since THanos was going to destroy the Universe at that moment, running really doesn't net him anything anyways. He either fights and likely dies, or he just dies. Under the circumstances might as well try and fight. Nothing to lose and everything to gain.
I think I already said early on in this conversation that pretty much NOTHING is worse than Hickmans scene, because Shuri dying is worse than anything that can happen short of T'Challa dying. Because Shuri is so important to the mythos, the scene with her dead is worse (IMO at least) than any scene I've seen in Coates books.
Exactly, I am about the righteous super genius king from an African Utopia. That's what we are all here for, the true enthusiasts. That's what Lee and Kirby intended, that is what Priest Hudlin, Redjack (BP cartoon) Coogler, McDuffie etc, All champion, and that is what resonates with people. This sucka isht we see isn't BP. This is someone's low self-esteem portrayal of self loathing and regression where these should be forward movement to a new plateaue for T'Challa and Wakanda
And I brought up another scene in which character assassination occured and Coates book, but apparently to you it's fine and within character, her telling her own people to be raped and die completely within character and not character assassination right?
It's really just ironic
From a purely character assasination stand point, Coates retroctively makes Hickmans scene less bad because theres established consistency to a degree.
But in the context of Shuri basically abandoning the remaining Wakandans the Hickman scene is still worse. While dying for Wakanda may be acceptable to Shuri, living to aid them in their time of need should still be the priority.
Last edited by XPac; 02-08-2020 at 11:47 AM.
Again, the old woman the MA were talking to claimed that they were being attacked. Maybe she was lying or flat out wrong, but there are indicator there were problems there which T'CHalla was seemingly too busy to deal with at the time. But the MA ended up dealing with it for him, so it was a win win all around. Or at least a win win for T'Challa and the Doras. Not so much for the monkey suit guy.
Not the same situation for Shuri. She could have easily just teleported away with T"Challa rather than stay and fight.
Let me flip the question and ask why it's better that Shuri stayed and died? Who does Shuri dying benefit exactly? Is T'Challa better off with her dying there rather than simply returning with her? Are the remaining Wakandans better off with Shuri dead than alive? Why exactly doe Shuri staying to die somehow make more sense than leaving to help T'Challa and Wakanda in the rest of the story?