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  1. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post

    Oh, and had another look at it, and just wanted to mention a couple other things I noticed. the TVA seems like it may have some kind of connection with the Living Tribunal in the MCU? (tho technically, the TVA should be the same across all universes, but... well, clearly there are differences) That's the only thing I can think of with the sculptures that are shown a couple times of three figures, and 3 faces in particular. It is a motif that is repeated twice in this trailer alone, so i don't think it is some kind of coincidence. Also, in the DB Cooper scene he says 'brother, Heimdall, you'd better be ready' so I'm hoping we get to see him interact with Thor! Even if it is an alternate universe version. The teleportation effect after he jumps from the plane definitely looked like the Bifrost, so I guess Heimdall was, indeed, ready.
    No, it's the times keepers, who were the creation of the TVA at the end of times, to monitor the timestream.
    time keepers.jpg
    I try to improve my english, feel free to correct me by DM if you see some mistakes !

  2. #497
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    ah! ok, that makes sense. I've only encountered the TVA a few times in the comics

  3. #498
    Protector of Mortals Prof. Aegis's Avatar
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    So I keep seeing on CBR and Newsarama that people are thinking Black Widow is making an appearance in Loki due to the one clip on the trailer where you see a woman from the back, dressed in a black jumpsuit with reddish hair. So naturally everyone is jumping to conclusions it's Natasha, and Loki brings her back or something. What amazes me, is I haven't seen any of the articles dig into Loki stories for a connection, because my first thought is its Lorelei, who also has red hair. Plus it appears she has a sword next to her, kind of tying into the Asgard myths and weapons aspect. Now, of course I have nothing more to go than my own thoughts, but as this is Loki's story, I can't see them bringing in Natasha for a one episode appearance just for the heck of it, yet Lorelei could be central to the story and several episodes.

    Either way, come March we'll know.
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  4. #499
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    It's not Natasha. It's whoever that's played by that blonde actress cast, her first name is Sophie something. She's possibly Enchantress or Lady Loki (I doubt this) or someone else entirely.

  5. #500
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I don't understand why everyone is so insistent she is Lady Loki, when they kept her hair blonde for the shoot, which we saw in set photos. I've seen several people just say she IS playing Lady Loki, not 'could be' IS when we don't know that. I mean it could be, she does wear an outfit similar to Loki's MCU outfit, but... I dunno, I just think that if you do Lady Loki, you dye their hair black or put a wig on em. Just like they do with Hiddleston. I can forgive eyecolour cus contacts usually look fake, but hair is easy, they change actors hair all the time with wigs or dye. Man, woman or child, Marvel's Loki has always had black hair, and I just think it wouldn't really feel like Loki if the hair colour kept changing is all. It would be a bit different if they had not dyed Hiddleston's hair black for the movies, but... they did, so.... It would be like doing a gender flipped Thor and making her a brunette.

    But yeah, Lorelei or Enchantress could work. Or she may be someone new created for the show, not everyone they cast has to be an existing character from the comics. My first thought was Black Widow, i guess i am just conditioned to think redhead woman = Black Widow, particularly in the context of the MCU. But someone more connected with Loki would make more sense, if it is not a new character.

    Anyway, back to the comics, been thinking about King in Black, and how Cates opted Thor out of an event HE is writing, at least early on, and why he did that, and how that could play out. Like how weird is it for a writer to spearhead a big event, and then opt out their OWN book? This does tie back to Loki in the end, bear with me.

    He did this deliberately, clearly, shunting Thor and the other Asgardians off to another dimension JUST as King in Black is starting, so they can't easily participate in the fight. I mean yeah Thor also has it's own story to tell, but the timing.... And i can understand why, Thor is basically symbiote kryptonite, thunder and lightning equals noise and heat, not to mention blinding white light to pierce Knull's desired perfect black void. Back early in Cates run on Venom, he even had Thor soundly kick the Grendel symbiote's ass back in the middle ages for just that reason. So yeah, i get not having Thor on the board early on, cus he could potentially make the fight too easy. Could also partly explain why Blake is depowering all the 'thors' out there, so they can't throw a lightning bolt up Knull's ass. (I wonder what they will do about Storm, tho) Maybe not like an instant 'i win' button, but enough to turn the tide, so while I am sure Brock will likely play a significant part in the resolution, Thor could be a crucial piece to winning. Hence having the Avengers be all like 'where the hell is Thor?' to plant the seed that he's missing, and that they probably need to find him to win. But do they need Thor, or just his powers? it's the thunder and lightning bit that's the kryptonite, anyone could be wielding it. And we have seen Cates is continuing the role switchup thing Aaron started. So wouldn't it make a great entrance for the new role holder, who i still think will be Loki, to arrive on the scene to help kick Knull's ass at the last minute? Can't you just picture it, bigass lightning bolt hits, and the Avengers and others are all like 'Thor's finally arrived!' except no, it's not Thor. He's like back in Asgard dealing with the Blake fallout, or something. King stuff. And Loki gets to make a big dramatic splash in his new job. I know there's no evidence for any of this, but just saying, I could see how this could work.

    Especially with the scene he included of Thor kicking Knull's ass back in the middle ages, it would be yet another example of history repeating with a new protagonist. We've had Loki being dressed down by Thor for his drunken misadventures on Midgard, similar to how Odin did the same with young Thor, We had Thor kicking ass in Dimension Blood, and then in the present day, Loki did he same, and then if this happens (admittedly, kind of a big if) then Thor kicks Knull's ass in the middle ages, and Loki does the same in the present. Thing is, there could be lots more that we just are not aware of. They could replay Thor's greatest hits for decades, and never repeat anything we've seen in the comics, because Thor is fucking OLD. The comics cover a tiny fraction of his life and his adventures, 15 years or so out of centuries, so they could just do as they've done already and just throw a hint in every now and then that 'oh hey, yeah, Thor did something like that back in 1317' or whatever every now an then. Like, they may not even be aware of it themselves. Cates pointed out that Thor didn't even REMEMBER the Dimension Blood incident, it had happened so long ago. so, just saying, that they are on repeat doesn't mean we will see repeats of stories we have already read, it could still be all new to us. Especially since it's more like story beats, rather than the finer details.
    Last edited by Raye; 12-14-2020 at 12:53 PM.

  6. #501
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    I cannot wait for this series




    https://bleedingcool.com/comics/mari...ouble-trouble/

    I really love Tamaki and Gurihiru's art is sublime!

  7. #502
    Spectacular Member Karabaja's Avatar
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    That seems nice

  8. #503
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    ah too cute! I don't really have any experience with Tamaki personally, though I have heard good things, but I do adore Gurihu's art. Looked up the Spidey/Venom Double Trouble thing, and looks like that was 4 issues, so i assume the same will probably be the case here.

    The action kicks off when Loki dares Thor to steal a powerful relic from Odin's vault. The epic story that follows will be packed with both Asgardian adventure and high-octane action, all illustrated in the iconic vibrant style of Gurihiru. "Gurihiru are awesome. This comic is so deeply adorable it's RIDICULOUS," Tamaki promises. "Very excited to get to write some more adventures with Marvel characters, ESPECIALLY Thor and Loki." Loki has always delighted himself in getting the God of Thunder into trouble. But has he finally taken it a trick too far? Don't miss Thor and Loki's wildest adventure yet when THOR & LOKI: DOUBLE TROUBLE arrives this March!
    So despite Loki being in his modern costume on the cover, sounds like it takes place in ye olden days, which could be fun. If it is in continuity (not a guarantee, looks like the Spidey/Venom one wasn't?) it could help flesh out that period in their lives a bit. Tho yeah a bit weird that Thor is in his young Thor look that Ribic designed, but with Mjolnir rather than Jarnbjorn, but Loki's in his modern outfit. But as mentioned, it may not be in continuity so whatever.

    I do wish they would kinda iron out what actually happened back in the day tho. Like we get flashbacks sometimes, but they always seem to just do their own thing every time, without regard to what other people did in flashbacks. They don't all agree on how things were, which is frustrating. In some, Loki's an evil lil shit from the start, in others he's a sweet kid that went bad. Thor is a bit more consistent in terms of personality, but there's still differences in events, like when he became worthy of Mjolnir. Just... pick one and stick with it. and I am not advocating for going back to the original depictions, I think that would just create more confusion due to bouncing back from what we have now. Just move forward with what Aaron established. I am not necessarily criticizing this series, either, as mentioned, it just kinda brought to mind a genral gripe i have. it may not be in continuity, in which case, almost anything goes, and that's fine. But if it is meant to be in continuity I'd just like it to be consistent with what we have already seen. And judging by the cover, it isn't, at least not with what Aaron established, if Thor has Mjolnir, then Loki had by that point already thoroughly turned heel.
    Last edited by Raye; 12-16-2020 at 05:12 AM.

  9. #504
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    BUT speaking of older continuity, I had a thought today for something that might be fun, and fit with the whole role switch thing, and repeating story beats. And yes, I know, this is an idea i have been critical of before, but that's because it was framed in a way that would be regressive, just for the sake of restoring old status quo. I am all for using old continuity, just not if it's used in a way to just revert things to a previous state and keep things from moving forward. (and that goes for stories i really enjoyed too, like i loved JIM, doesn't mean I want to just reset things so Kid Loki is back just for the sake of it.) Also, this is still working on the assumption, which admittedly may not pan out, though I hope it does, that Loki will, likely at the end of Prey, take Thor's old role. Okay. So those caveats out of the way....

    You know how Odin always wanted Thor to get himself a nice Asgardian girl, (usually Sif, sometimes Enchantress, though usually with some manipulation on her part in that case) and settle down or whatever, but Thor was like naw, I'm gonna go be with Jane, (or whatever other mortal girl he was with) and Odin was like >:-( about it? Okay. so what if.... assuming we are doing repeating story beats and all, Loki gets a mortal love interest, and then Thor brings back Sigyn for kinda the same reasons as Odin trying to get him to settle down with Sif?

    But much like how Thor kept going back to Jane (or other mortals) Loki would not react like this was a happy reunion, because he's moved on. It was a very lopsided relationship and he was definitely the less invested partner to begin with, so if she died (or whatever else happened to her) I think he would move on fairly easily. And we have seen him in recent years show romantic interest in people, though it hasn't gotten particularly far as of yet. So yeah, he's moved on. But Sigyn, being Sigyn, would not have, and things would be super awkward. Like I am picturing him just wanting to get away, or try to tell her he's not interested any more, and she's following him, and pestering him etc. Though I think the focus should be more on Thor, that he did this while not quite getting what Loki wants or needs. Maybe he took the throne with no wife and no heir and regrets that, and decided to 'save' Loki from a similar situation (tho, not like the throne is lacking for heirs, even if he doesn't procreate. We know he will, because of his daughter and granddaughters in the future, but it has not happened yet in the present, and even if he didn't, he has 5 siblings in the line of succession, one of which is a baby who could be groomed for the throne) He means well, but he just created problems for Loki. Loki's trying to move on, and has a clingy ex pursuing him, and then you have the question of whether or not they are still married. Like did them dying nullify the marriage because 'until death' even tho they were both resurrected, or once they were resurrected it's back on? I dunno, I just looked up the laws, and in real life, though we don't have people getting resurrected happening, it looks like if someone is declared dead, the marriage is dissolved, and if that declaration of death is later shown to be mistaken and if they later return, they are not considered to be married any more, though several years have to pass for this to take effect. But with Asgardians having more ready access to resurrection, things may be different for them. And yeah, could be used to show that Thor doesn't really GET Loki. Cares about him, but doesn't get him, if he actually thinks Loki would want this. And Loki could feel like Thor is doing what he would have wanted, rather than what Loki would want. Or that he feels like Thor is trying to turn him into a copy of himself (which would actually kinda be the case, though it would be the fates/story doing it, technically) and not like that. It could be one of the things that tips him off about repeating beats Thor's already been through, and not like that. I am keen on the whole role thing, but not because I think it's actually good for the characters, I don't think they should be happy with the situation. Hell, you could do the same thing with Sigyn. She's been gone for years, even in universe it's been probably at least 10 years, Loki now is not the same Loki she knew in a lot of ways, he's changed a LOT. So you could have some drama there where, while I don't think she would actively push him to do something bad, she could encourage old bad habits and/or just be confused about the new him. Like he is objectively a better person, but that wouldn't be what she is expecting, and it may feel to her like a stranger is wearing his skin or something.

    I dunno, i just think that would be a fun way to create some drama. I would want to more fully flesh out Sigyn as a side effect though, her characterization was.... pretty shallow, I get that it fit the myths, but they could have given her some more traits besides her devotion to Loki. And this could be a way to flesh her out more. But not have her and Loki get back together. Not just because of the 'he needs a Jane' thing, (again, assuming my speculation is on track, which may not be the case, i know that) I think not only has he moved on, he did treat her... not great, and i think maybe she should get someone that doesn't have toxic baggage attached, even if he would treat her better now. I don't think they should send a message that you should stick it out with a bad partner on the off chance that they could change sometime down the line. If they do something like this though, they definitely have to have Loki already in a new relationship BEFORE she comes back, otherwise it just comes off as simply cheating on her, and that's not good. Also, I've said this before, but if they don't go with an existing love interest like Zelma or maybe bumping Verity up to love interest (would prefer she stayed just friends tho, personally) I think now might be the time to have a male love interest for Loki.

    But...yeah, this is not based on anything, i just think it could be interesting.

    Also, it just dawned on me. Knull absorbed the Void, right? it makes so much sense now, Cates wasn't bringing back the Sentry, he was bringing back the Void, to power up Knull. But he had Loki face the Void and win (with Dr Strange's help, but still) in his Dr Strange run, despite being really scared of it on account of it, you know, having killed him previously. What i said before, about last minute come in to save the day scenario? doesn't that work so much better with the Void there if it is Loki who is kinda defeating a past nemesis and fear at the same time?
    Last edited by Raye; 12-16-2020 at 07:06 PM.

  10. #505
    Spectacular Member Karabaja's Avatar
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    Oh, I'd love to see Sigyn back. She's a loose end that might be interesting to see resolving. But personally, I wouldn't want her to pining after Loki any more; rather, I'd want her Loki to show some remorse for being and awful abusive shit to her, and her showing that she had moved on, and them both being uncomfortable around one another, before Loki would (preferably) try to actually apologize/make it up to her for all the crap he'd put her through, though I'm pretty sure there's no making up for it ever. But remorse and personal growth on both parts would be amazing. Unfortunately, since current Thor series is very much action- packed, I somehow doubt this, or any other emotionally demanding storyline, will take place there. We might have hoped to see Sigyn in Loki series, she was even mentioned once, but it is what it is.

  11. #506
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I could see her getting to that point over the course of the story, and that would be the best all round in the end (I wouldn't want this status quo to go on forever) but I think she should start out pining for him. I just think that between her being gone for so long, checking some wikis, looks like it's been over 30 years, aside from a few cameo/flashbacks after that, so a lot of people would not really be aware of her, and the fact that he characterization was so shallow, having her start off in a place similar to the last time we saw her would be best. Show people of what she was like, and start with something familiar for the people that are familiar with her, so it doesn't feel like you're just plopping in a new character with her name and face. I guess you could do that with flashback... but might be nice to allow a character arc rather than have her arrive already having undergone one off panel.

    And yes, he should apologize. He has a lot of people he should apologize to if he's serious about turning over a new leaf, but she's at the top of the list, along with Sif, Thor, Balder, his mom....

    And while Cates did start with a lot of big action, he is one of the best out there at balancing big, giant over the top action, with big emotional subplots, so I think he could totally balance the badassery with a romance plot. I know most writers have emotional subplots, but I think Cates is particularly good at it. (Ewing and Gillen are also really good at it, and I think that's part of why their stories with Loki worked so well, though they were a bit more overt with the themes, making them more surface level, while Cates sometimes likes to be sneaky with his themes, slipping them in there without you really noticing at first) Like the story that turned me on to Cates and made me know he was one to watch was God Country, and on the surface, it just sounds like badass big action, a homage to Thor. Man finds the weapon of a god, gets powers from it, goes and kicks a lot of ass as he comes into conflict with the pantheon of gods who want their magic sword back. (Cates loves him some magic swords) But what makes the story really memorable is that the man has Alzheimers, and that finding this sword, in addition to making him an utter badass, also clears his mind as he is wielding it, and the emotional impact that has on both him and his son is where the meat of the story is. And also the the themes of what kind of legacy to leave behind that runs throughout with both the mortal family and the family of the gods. While the emotional themes are a bit more present in his creator owned work, it is definitely still present in his Marvel stuff. That's one of the reasons I look for themes in Thor, and where they could be leading, because he is huge on themes and emotional subplots running under big bombastic action surface plots, and he is very deliberate with them, and they are important to the stories. The big action is just an extension of the emotional stuff. Like Venom is actually a really emotional story about fatherhood, repentance, and regrets under all the symbiote stuff. Silver Surfer Black is all about how you have to put good or 'light' out into the world for it to mean anything, that it's not enough to be a pretty good person just cruising through life not impacting the world positively and giving something of yourself. etc. It's a bit disappointing that so many readers are reading Thor on such a superficial surface level, because it is the emotional subplots where Cates truly shines, and that is present in Thor as well, with how Thor is going through this bout of impostor syndrome, not being ready to commit to this next stage in his life, it's got themes about toxic masculinity, nostalgia and not living in the past etc.. I don't think Cates has done that much with romance specifically, but he's actually said on twitter... or was it a podcast? that it's something he'd like to do. Now, given that this is Thor's book, he may want to focus on Thor's love life... as mentioned, he should probably get himself a queen, but I don't think it's out of the question to contrast that with something for Loki as well.

    Or, maybe look forward to a new Loki series when the Disney show airs. Clearly the Double Trouble thing is aiming to have a trade ready to go shortly after the show starts, (Trade should in theory be ready to go in June, show's first episode hits in May, so assuming it goes for Mandalorian rules of one a week rather then Netflix style binging, though it won't be on the shelves as it starts, it will be there before it concludes, especially if the show hits later in May while the book lands earlier in the month) and i bet they will push Vote Loki (shame about the interior art on that one, tho, that may turn people off) due to the costume homage to it, and maybe some other previous stories, but no saying they have to stop there. That starts in May, Prey and King In Black will be concluding in March, so it's perfect timing for something to spin out of that for Loki and have it be something on the shelves for when the show starts. It wouldn't have a trade on the shelves as the show is airing, (Covid delays likely threw a wrench in plans somewhat if they were aiming to have a book to capitalize on the show) but better than nothing, even tho getting someone who hasn't read the comics before to buy into an ongoing series is a much harder sell than a trade. I've got a weird hunch about Kelly Thompson.

    ps. https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/EQ...4pV-970-80.jpg Looks like Bill lives and gets a new weapon... but NOT Mjolnir, it's some kind of axe. so....I'm just saying, I'm still on track here.
    Last edited by Raye; 12-17-2020 at 07:52 AM.

  12. #507
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Solicits for March are out: https://www.gamesradar.com/marvel-co...vers-revealed/

    New cover for Double Trouble in there:



    Very cute. That one Thor DOES have Jarnbjorn which might make it fit in continuity... but i think it's one of the variant covers, so maybe not. Either way, I'm sure it will be fun.

    Other than that no mention of Loki that I saw, but I'm sure he will probably be appearing in Thor over the next few months, just, they're not saying anything about it in the solicits.

    I do have to adjust some of my predictions, cus Prey apparently goes on for longer than I thought, and it will be ending in April, not March, and apparently most of the Asgardians are still stuck in Dimension Blood, so there will probably be no thunder and lightning last minute save in King in Black, so scratch that. Though, if Beta Ray Bill's series is tying into King in Black that means that at the very least he gets out of Dimension Blood, but he could not do that himself, he's been depowered and does not have Stormbreaker or any other magic weapon (the series seems to be about him finding a new one). I know he's paling around with Lockjaw recently, so maybe that's how, come to think of it. But we do know Loki's been there before too, and can get in and out of the dimension fairly easily, so as long as he's in there and didn't go back to Jotunheim or wherever between issues, he can get some people out. But whether Lockjaw or Loki, I simply don't think they have the capability to transport the sheer number of people in there right now. Or at least, not very quickly, it would probably be faster to try and get Heimdall's sword back than to sit there and let them trickle back out of the dimension over the span of weeks or months. Besides all the Asgardians, there are also the refugees from the planets got got destroyed in the first arc, so there's possibly billions in need of evacuation, since there are the entire populations of several planets, for which they will likely need the Bifrost.

    But yeah, i do still think Loki will be playing a part, even if he's not mentioned. I really don't think they'd have started the arc the way they did if they did not intend to have him play a part. I mean, Thor didn't actually NEED Loki there to instigate the switch, and since Blake transported them all to Dimension Blood shortly later, if the intention was to not have Loki participate, then they could have just left him in Jotunheim, unaware about what was happening, or where the Asgardians got sent, assuming he found out about Blake later. That would have been the easier option if they didn't want him in the story. Having him take part in things with Thor early on, which makes this his responsibility, and by doing so, making it so that he was most likely in Asgard when everyone got transported to Dimension Blood, a dimension that had only ever previously been shown in Cates' Dr strange run where Loki went there... twice... I mean.... he's clearly being set up to play a part here.

  13. #508
    Protector of Mortals Prof. Aegis's Avatar
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    This mini-series does look cute and just fun. I'm looking forward to the fun adventures Thor and Loki get into. I'm not even worried about continuity, I'm just hoping its a fun story.

    Yeah, I don't have high hopes for the rest of this Thor story as far as Loki is concerned. It seems that Loki is just popping up to move the story forward, but have no real impact. I know Cates before said this would be a big one for Loki, and I know we're only 2 issues into the story, but where Loki hasn't been mentioned in the next 3 solicits, and no cover appearances showing, I won't be surprised if he only pops back up in part 6 of the story. But, at the same time, I'm curious to see where the story goes and to see if Loki could play a part.

    I do agree, I could see the connection to the Dr. Strange story while Loki was Sorcerer Supreme and dealing with Dimension Blood, but from everything seen so far, it seems like the other Asgardians are all there but not Loki. So perhaps he shows up at the end of part 5 to help the others out of there in part 6, but again, it's not much of an impact for Loki. Just helps to move the story forward. But again, there are 4 more parts of the story to go, so we'll see what unfolds.

    I'm hoping come May we'll see a new series to coincide with his Disney+ series.
    The Doors of Wisdom are never shut! - Benjamin Franklin

  14. #509
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I don't think it matters exactly if it is in continuity, I'm just curious if it is or not. Probably not, but it might be interesting if it did, because, as i said previously, that period could use some fleshing out.

    And I still think Loki will play a part, for the reasons i said above, though I do wish they'd say more in the solicits, show him on the covers, something. I also think this because of the Loki Disney Plus show, though Cates may not particularly care about it (I mean he may, I dunno) I'd imagine the editors were like 'hey, maybe push Loki a bit around this time?' I guess we'll know more next issue, and we find out if he was in Asgard or not when they all got ported. One thing I do think Cates needs to do a bit better at is juggling the plot threads when he's got lots of characters to worry about. He is much better when he can strongly focus on one or two, but I feel this arc kinda needs more focus on the side characters like Loki, Sif, Odin, Bill, etc. Like we should already know if Loki is in that dimension or not, he should have at least gotten a panel or two to let you know, what happened after the final page, or make it clear that what happened to him was supposed to be something we need to be concerned about or not. And it feels kinda weird to me that this solicit is the first we've heard that Odin is just kinda missing. You'd think that would have been at least mentioned sooner. I mean I did find it a bit odd that he (and Freyja) were not shown, but i didn't get the sense that they were actually missing, just off panel somewhere. I do assume that it does into that bit of almost throwaway dialogue at the end of Aaron's run that his mind was slipping, though. I'm assuming when it talks about if he's up to the task, it means he's likely going senile. Which Cates, again as mentioned above, does have some experience with writing about.

    and yes, I really hope that in April or May we get a new series. Double Trouble looks super fun, but it is a short mini, and does seem to be kinda aimed at kids (which is fine! I'm all for comics aimed at kids) and I'd like something a bit more adult. Maybe still funny, but in a more grown up way.
    Last edited by Raye; 12-25-2020 at 01:23 AM.

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