Steve Rogers: Captain America Appreciation 2020

[cc008]

Maybe his leaving Black Panther will let him put a little more umph into Cap. But yeah it is a slow burn. Read 17 18 19 yesterday. Much better in bulk.

[Prof. Warren]

Maybe his leaving Black Panther will let him put a little more umph into Cap. But yeah it is a slow burn. Read 17 18 19 yesterday. Much better in bulk.

It definitely hasn't gotten to the point - at least for me - where it's terrible.

But that BP vibe, where storylines feel like they're moving at a glacial pace, is starting to seep into it.

Of course it doesn't help that the art has been sub-par for awhile now.

I was really digging Coates' run for the bulk of it so I don't think it's impossible that he can't rally with a post #25 relaunch.

On the other hand, the fear of Cap being stuck in a years-long dirge like BP makes me rather that Coates get out now.

[capandkirby]

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/02...fter-issue-25/

With Coates leaving BP, what are the odds that he's done with Cap after #25 too?

I'm crossing my fingers that he's out.

I wouldn't be enraged if he was still on Cap awhile longer (while I would have been outright done with BP if he stayed there) but I would be disappointed.

Coates' Cap has become a slog (much like BP). It's time to give the book a shot in the arm.

While I've loved Coates' Cap (yes, some issues more than others) I feel that at this point his leaving Cap is probably inevitable. And I wish him all the future success in the world. My best guess for replacement is Jason Aaron, as he mentioned, when he left Thor, that he already had his replacement assignment but we have yet to see what that is (Valkyrie had already started). Plus, he has mentioned in the past that he'd be interested.

Saladin Ahmed has also expressed an interest, so he is also a contender.

[Marvell2100]

While I've loved Coates' Cap (yes, some issues more than others) I feel that at this point his leaving Cap is probably inevitable. And I wish him all the future success in the world. My best guess for replacement is Jason Aaron, as he mentioned, when he left Thor, that he already had his replacement assignment but we have yet to see what that is (Valkyrie had already started). Plus, he has mentioned in the past that he'd be interested.

Saladin Ahmed has also expressed an interest, so he is also a contender.

Saladin has done a very good job with Miles so I'd like to see him get a shot.

It's past time for Coates to leave. If you read his story, then go back and read what Brubaker's run was like, you'd say that Coates followed a little too closely. They're almost identical.

[capandkirby]

Saladin has done a very good job with Miles so I'd like to see him get a shot.

It's past time for Coates to leave. If you read his story, then go back and read what Brubaker's run was like, you'd say that Coates followed a little too closely. They're almost identical.

I've read Brubaker (multiple times). I've read every Cap run, dating back to the Silver Age (and I've also read Kirby and Simon's initial Cap offerings from the Golden Age). I still enjoyed Coates work, here. I haven't agreed with everything he's done, but overall it's been an enjoyable read for me. While it's true using the Lukins and Red Skull in the way that he is, is a nod to Brubaker, there are enough differences that I'm okay with it. Coates has done a good job of putting nods in his work to all former Cap writers, using Walker and Scourge and Bernie is a nod to Gruenwald, for example. Plus, Coates is using the Lukins and Red Skull for a very specific reasoning completely relevant to current times: Russian Collusion.

It's unfortunate you haven't gotten enjoyment out of it, but, all mileage varies *shrugs*. In my mind Brubaker's run wasn't even the best Cap run, for me that still goes to Waid's volume 3, followed by a handful of arcs from Gruenwald's run (not all, unfortunately, the drug arc was terrible, for example), THEN followed by Brubaker. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

I would argue that the Cap writer who has had the most impact on the character, the one that all Cap writers have given nods to since, was Steve Englehart. Because he was the one that first proclaimed Cap was not loyal to the government, he was loyal to the dream. And in doing that, he cemented Cap as a character who is transformative, who can change with the times because he evolves with what 'the dream' means in any given decade. Meaning Cap evolves as The Dream, itself, evolves.

[capandkirby]

Forgot to add that I think everyone's favorite Cap writer is entirely dependent on when they got into comics. Part of the reason I hold Gruenwald and Waid in such high regard, other than the fact that they were/are excellent Cap writers, is because my first exposure to comics (any comics) was Gruenwald's Cap run. So who knows, maybe people who just got into comics this past year or two will think of Coates as the best (for them) for years down the line.

[Marvell2100]

I've read Brubaker (multiple times). I've read every Cap run, dating back to the Silver Age (and I've also read Kirby and Simon's initial Cap offerings from the Golden Age). I still enjoyed Coates work, here. I haven't agreed with everything he's done, but overall it's been an enjoyable read for me. While it's true using the Lukins and Red Skull in the way that he is, is a nod to Brubaker, there are enough differences that I'm okay with it. Coates has done a good job of putting nods in his work to all former Cap writers, using Walker and Scourge and Bernie is a nod to Gruenwald, for example. Plus, Coates is using the Lukins and Red Skull for a very specific reasoning completely relevant to current times: Russian Collusion.

It's unfortunate you haven't gotten enjoyment out of it, but, all mileage varies *shrugs*. In my mind Brubaker's run wasn't even the best Cap run, for me that still goes to Waid's volume 3, followed by a handful of arcs from Gruenwald's run (not all, unfortunately, the drug arc was terrible, for example), THEN followed by Brubaker. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

I would argue that the Cap writer who has had the most impact on the character, the one that all Cap writers have given nods to since, was Steve Englehart. Because he was the one that first proclaimed Cap was not loyal to the government, he was loyal to the dream. And in doing that, he cemented Cap as a character who is transformative, who can change with the times because he evolves with what 'the dream' means in any given decade. Meaning Cap evolves as The Dream, itself, evolves.

I enjoyed Coates story and he had some good ideas, I think he just dragged it out for too long and I really don't like the idea of bringing Peggy back.

Of all the Cap writers, I think I enjoyed Gruenwalds' the most because he hit on so many topics and themes. 2nd would be a tie between Sterns and Brubaker.

[capandkirby]

I enjoyed Coates story and he had some good ideas, I think he just dragged it out for too long and I really don't like the idea of bringing Peggy back.

Of all the Cap writers, I think I enjoyed Gruenwalds' the most because he hit on so many topics and themes. 2nd would be a tie between Sterns and Brubaker.

Oh I completely agree with you there. I don't like Peggy being back, either. That's one aspect of this run I haven't enjoyed.

Ugh, forgot about Stern for a second there. You're right. Stern is definitely up there in the top three, he nudges out Brubaker for me. For such a short run, it packed a huge bang. I consider Cap #250 one of the best Cap issues of all-time. I mean, if a single Cap issue can inspire an equally amazing What If comic, that's a good Cap issue!

And yes, Gru was amazing. I just reread the Blood Stone arc the other day. Otherwise known as that arc in which Gruenwald did Indiana Jones better than the last Indiana Jones movie did Indiana Jones, lol. Like I said, I didn't enjoy everything from Gru, but he wrote Steve for ten years, so you're bound to have hits and misses, but Cap #332 is one of the other greatest Cap issues of all-time, there is no doubt that Gru was a genius.

[Marvell2100]

Oh I completely agree with you there. I don't like Peggy being back, either. That's one aspect of this run I haven't enjoyed.

Ugh, forgot about Stern for a second there. You're right. Stern is definitely up there in the top three, he nudges out Brubaker for me. For such a short run, it packed a huge bang. I consider Cap #250 one of the best Cap issues of all-time. I mean, if a single Cap issue can inspire an equally amazing What If comic, that's a good Cap issue!

And yes, Gru was amazing. I just reread the Blood Stone arc the other day. Otherwise known as that arc in which Gruenwald did Indiana Jones better than the last Indiana Jones movie did Indiana Jones, lol. Like I said, I didn't enjoy everything from Gru, but he wrote Steve for ten years, so you're bound to have hits and misses, but Cap #332 is one of the other greatest Cap issues of all-time, there is no doubt that Gru was a genius.

Man, I didn't mean to leave Waid off my list. He definitely rounds out my top 4 Cap writers. I re-read his original run about once a year it's so good.

[Shadowcat]

I’m enjoying Coates run. Yeah, it’s not as heavy on action as other runs, but I like what he’s doing with him. I really like how he’s playing up the Iron Curtain with the Lukin’s. It’s something I’ve been wanting for awhile (a new era revamping of older USSR villains). I know Lukin was a Brubaker creation, but he also touched on it for a bit. It’s also nice not constantly seeing Nazis, although with the Alt-Right movement becoming more mainstream, I’m ready to see what he could do with them. I’d also love to see some other Russian, non-Cap villains updated. Maybe bring the Unicorn (my favorite male Marvel villain) into the 21st century.

[capandkirby]

Marvel announced yesterday that, as part of the Marvel Snap-shots, they are going to publish a Civil War era story featuring Steve, Giant Man (I was reminded yesterday when discussing this upcoming book on Twitter that Skrull!Hank Pym was Yellow Jacket at the time so this might be Bill Foster?) and Maria Hill. It's being written by Saladin Ahmed, which is relieving because he's one of the few writers at Marvel I trust right now to flesh Steve out in a Civil War era story without going... fervent militant with him. (I worry. Steve is seemingly a difficult character for some writers to grasp, because sometimes some writers seemingly confuse him with the chaotic but wildly focused 'soldier' energy of John Walker, not getting the fact that the very reason John Walker was created was to be a direct CONTRAST to Steve Rogers. I mean, Gruenwald said this point-blank. Meaning that certain writers at Marvel will write pure I-am-soldier-hear-me-roar!Steve without any of his his sensitivity, his rebelliousness, his tremendous heart or his thoughtfulness, and in a Civil War story especially). Ahmed though, he balances Steve really well. This should be really good. Anyway, here's the link.

And here's Ahmed's post about it...

[justanotherclassic]

Civil War is a very, uh, interesting period to choose to have a Steve Rogers/Maria Hill adventure going on considering where both sides stood and what nonsense Maria was pulling back then. I wonder if there might be some attempts for redemption of her there. Or if she'll still be the bad guy.

[capandkirby]

Civil War is a very, uh, interesting period to choose to have a Steve Rogers/Maria Hill adventure going on considering where both sides stood and what nonsense Maria was pulling back then. I wonder if there might be some attempts for redemption of her there. Or if she'll still be the bad guy.

At first that was my concern, too, before I learned who the writer was. i.e. that this would be a story told from Hill's POV and that they would try to redeem her and make Steve look bad in the process (which, I don't know how anyone could accomplish that, Steve wasn't the one throwing bombs at safe houses, without any warning, when the unregistered were doing nothing more than hanging out, i.e. not posing a threat, that was ALL Hill and completely nonredeemable, there is simply no coming back from that). But, like I said, I don't think Ahmed would do that. He likes Steve, he's said as much, and based on his description here he is equating SHIELD with ICE, at least that's the vibe I'm getting. There's no way he'd side with Hill and thus SHIELD in that particular metaphor.

[Frontier]

If somebody gets to punch out Hill, it'll be a good issue .

[capandkirby]

If somebody gets to punch out Hill, it'll be a good issue .

I'll toast to that! 2nd that times a thousand!