Hao Asakura (Shaman King) versus The Black Order (MCU)

[Nik Hasta]

Thanos mistakenly identifies Hao as the holder of the Soul Stone and sends off his children to capture/kill the Shaman King.

Hao Asakura (with the Spirit of Fire) takes on:

- Ebony Maw
- Cull Obsidian
- Proxima Midnight
- Corvus Glaive

The Black Order get ten Chitauri soldiers apiece, four spaceships for transport and three days of prep time. They cannot take action against Hao directly prior to that.

Hao does not know that they are coming but he's hanging out in the Black Forest in Germany, communing with spirits and probably starting fires.

Can the Black Order capture or kill Hao?

Bonus Scenario for Safety: Speed Equalised.

(Just to stress, this is Hao with the Spirit of Fire only. He has not yet communed with the Great Spirit to become the living incarnation of the afterlife. Just want to be clear on that.)

[Dark Soul # 7]

Isn't Hao's whole deal that he's absurdly powerful even before he gets the Great Spirit?

And doesn't he take out a small army by himself, also without the Great Spirit.

[BitVyper]

I cannot remember a lot of the feats in Shaman King, but I'm almost certain Hao curbstomps. The mechanics of oversouls alone might make him all but untouchable.

[Sol_M]

So, in the non-bonus scenario, he blitzes the crap out of everyone. I don't see how they stand any chance whatsoever. Am I wrong?

Do they have any way to avoid getting burned?

In the bonus scenario, they might catch him by surprise or something. Maybe.

[Len Ikari145]

Didn't Hao wipe out an entire military armada sent out by Manta's dad with a literal wave of his hand, Pre-Shaman King ascension? Not to mention that the Spirit of Fire is a multi-elemental in spite of its name?

[Sol_M]

I could be wrong, but it wasn't with a wave of his hand. He did kill them in very short order though, like, in seconds.

[Nik Hasta]

I could be wrong, but it wasn't with a wave of his hand. He did kill them in very short order though, like, in seconds.

It was a bit longer than seconds. It was long enough that normal humans are like "WTF how is he just nuking our ships and catching our missiles?!"

The whole sequence was actually hilarious.

The military fleet shows up and all the shaman have put aside their differences and the tournament is on hold until they deal with this. Hao then rocks up and is all like; "Alright, listen up noobs. I feel like flexing. Wait here and hold my beer,"

He then flies out to sea and decimates the fleet in short order, catching missiles and throwing them around and generally destroying everything that comes his way. The last remember of the X... Angels? X-Force? X-Knights? X-Laws! It's the X-Laws! anyway... he summons the most powerful angelic spirit Azazel, which is larger than a battleship, stated to be capable of obliterating the entire island they are nearby and is so powerful that an accomplished shaman can only maintain the summon of the spirit for 3 seconds.

Hao looks into the face of this angelic behemoth, calls it a weakling and then smiles and nukes it off the face of the earth with Onibi.

He then flies back to land and says "Welp, I'd better save some mana to bring everyone I just murdered back from the dead because I still have enough in the tank to do that, haha bye!" and then leaves everyone else stunned by his raw power.

So, I seem to have under estimated the Black Order. What if we drop Thanos into the mix as well? Does that help?

[BitVyper]

So from what I can recall, and I'll admit that the last time I read Shaman King was right after the ending got released, the metaphysics of Oversouls flat out negate physical damage in a manner very similar to Mazoku in Slayers. Given that, it feels like there's really only a couple people who could be a threat to him here just by virtue of possibly being stronger than anything it was demonstrated against. On top of everything, I'm pretty sure I remember him being able to casually read minds and reflexively reflect esoterics.

It's also notable that like, for everything he does in the series, I don't think we see Hao break a sweat even once.

[Dark Soul # 7]

So, I seem to have under estimated the Black Order. What if we drop Thanos into the mix as well? Does that help?

Probably not.

The problem with using MCU Thanos and his Black Order is that they're all really mundane in terms of powers, except for Ebony Maw. They've got varying degrees of super human physical stats, some nifty weapons and that's it. Thanos might be able to take more hits than his cronies but he won't really be able to do much in return since Hao can just chill out of Thanos' reach and blast away at him.

You'd have to give Thanos a few infinity stones, maybe 4, to give him any kind of fighting chance.

[BitVyper]

In an equalized speed scenario, he could maybe use the power stone to destroy the planet such that one of his ships survives to claim victory? Though Hao might still be able to survive long enough pull off a win even then depending on exactly what happens when the power stone destroys a planet. I can't see any of the other stones being too effective; time is of limited use in the arena against a flat-out stronger opponent, space isn't doing anything particularly special, even if reality could get past Hao's esoteric defenses, it's probably not doing anything to the spirit of fire, ditto mind with the added problem of having to actually touch Hao, and trying to use the soul stone against Hao is like trying to shoot the ocean with a water gun, though he might laugh himself to death in that case.

[Nik Hasta]

So from what I can recall, and I'll admit that the last time I read Shaman King was right after the ending got released, the metaphysics of Oversouls flat out negate physical damage in a manner very similar to Mazoku in Slayers. Given that, it feels like there's really only a couple people who could be a threat to him here just by virtue of possibly being stronger than anything it was demonstrated against.

Oversouls are strong against physical/non-spirirtual damage but, later in the series, Horohoro and Ren fight Yoh and Yoh has mastered Mumyuyakumu - the purification technique that just allows him to erase furiyoku and spiritual power at will. They both counter this by using their spirits to manifest actual physical phenomena (lightning and ice respectively) and it hurts Yoh just fine and he can't erase it because it is real lightning or ice rather than a spiritual version of it.

So while it makes them stronger against said issues, it's not unbeatable.

On top of everything, I'm pretty sure I remember him being able to casually read minds and reflexively reflect esoterics.

It's also notable that like, for everything he does in the series, I don't think we see Hao break a sweat even once.

Both of these are accurate. Hao reads minds at will to the point where I don't think he can actually turn it off. The only reflexive esoteric thing he reflects is when someone tries to use a voodoo death curse on him. It's meant to instantly kill him but it just reflects and kills the user. Hao gives no indication that he even noticed what happened.

Probably not.

The problem with using MCU Thanos and his Black Order is that they're all really mundane in terms of powers, except for Ebony Maw. They've got varying degrees of super human physical stats, some nifty weapons and that's it. Thanos might be able to take more hits than his cronies but he won't really be able to do much in return since Hao can just chill out of Thanos' reach and blast away at him.

You'd have to give Thanos a few infinity stones, maybe 4, to give him any kind of fighting chance.

Four Infinity Stones seems like a lot to me. I know Hao is mad strong but I didn't think he was stone worthy prior to getting the Great Spirit.

[BitVyper]

Oversouls are strong against physical/non-spirirtual damage but, later in the series, Horohoro and Ren fight Yoh and Yoh has mastered Mumyuyakumu - the purification technique that just allows him to erase furiyoku and spiritual power at will. They both counter this by using their spirits to manifest actual physical phenomena (lightning and ice respectively) and it hurts Yoh just fine and he can't erase it because it is real lightning or ice rather than a spiritual version of it.

So while it makes them stronger against said issues, it's not unbeatable.

So what I remember is that when Oversouls are introduced, they're basically the skill test for the whole Shaman fight because if you don't have a physically manifest spirit (an Oversoul), you straight up can't get through one because it can physically defend without having any physical quality to be broken. It cheats by having both spiritual and physical presence so that neither alone can damage it. As I recall though, Yoh's oversoul was comparatively limited, being stuck to the sword, which might make big AoEs or things he can't react to able to get past it. I forget precisely how Hao's oversoul manifests, but wasn't it just like, his entire body?

At any rate, I think it just adds to the factors that would almost certainly make anything but the named characters here completely superfluous.

Four Infinity Stones seems like a lot to me. I know Hao is mad strong but I didn't think he was stone worthy prior to getting the Great Spirit.

To be honest, like I said above, I just don't think most Infinity Stones would really matter here. Their feats, for the most part, aren't really anything Hao can't deal with. I guess BFR via space stone might be an option if they can actually shove him into a portal.

Edit: Okay, I'm dredging up more memories here. As I recall, Snowboard guy was able to just outright manifest a whole-ass avalanche early on in the series, and while he did his test offscreen, we know he still needed to manifest an oversoul to get into the Shaman fight.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Four Infinity Stones seems like a lot to me. I know Hao is mad strong but I didn't think he was stone worthy prior to getting the Great Spirit.

Probably for regular 616 Thanos.

But without the stone MCU Thanos doesn't exactly have a lot of options besides hitting Hao with his fist or double-sword. And Hao can just not let that happen in a number of ways.

[BitVyper]

I've also just remembered that the fire spirit independently acts in Hao's interest when Hao is dead/just being reborn, so even killing him might not actually win the fight. And can't Hao pretty much reincarnate at will? IIRC, the only reason he waited 500 years was to get into the Shaman fight. Granted, he reincarnates as a baby, but I'm not sure that's even a problem for him.

[Dark Soul # 7]

I've also just remembered that the fire spirit independently acts in Hao's interest when Hao is dead/just being reborn, so even killing him might not actually win the fight. And can't Hao pretty much reincarnate at will? IIRC, the only reason he waited 500 years was to get into the Shaman fight. Granted, he reincarnates as a baby, but I'm not sure that's even a problem for him.

I have vague memories of somebody trying to kill Hao as a baby. He just created a forcefield around himself and floated away without anybody being able to stop him.