1. #25321
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    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/22/p...nce/index.html

    Supreme Court allows release of Trump tax returns to NY prosecutor!
    Hey! Nobody told you it's christmas again? Who is having a really really bad day at his resort? Not me!

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    Mighty Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    It was unanimous. Wonder what Roberts offered the Trump appointees to make that happen. Abortion?
    Probably nothing. It's clearly a situation where they either do not have jurisdiction or a legal argument could not be adequately made.

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    So anyway again I will just stop I guess, I am not defending Germany in actuality or anything, I don't know if I would consider myself that conservative, it's just annoying, what else would you consider the Nazis?

    They utilized many leftist and socialist ideas, why would they do this or lie outright? what would the main benefit be? it's up for question or debate I guess, but probably one that is too controversial or taboo in the minds of most people. You could say, "oh the National Socialist group existed to foster German nationalism and nothing more" but then at some point why did the Germans not ever stop and go "well this isn't socialist at all what the hell?" it is just really difficult to adequately define what they did or stood for but it is just at tiring case of semantics to many it would seem. I guess maybe people see it as this big possible lie to fall far, I don't know, that's not really what I was denying or arguing over.

    I don't think it's overly slanderous or misleading to say the Nazis were a mixture of right wing or left wing ideas, it's just an an attempt to adequately define them and not in anyway mislead or cause some type of "fascist" uprising at all. It is true in a sense that in a constantly homogeneous and liberalized world that being nationalist is almost a arguably socialist idea for some, it is an idea that has not really been conceived or proposed prior and likewise, it's like the term "antifascism" it's this term that can be really obnoxiously overused and over emphasized I think.

    I personally do not think we have even come that close to making Marxism work, if that's even a priority for most people. There honestly wouldn't need to be a giant welfare state if it wasn't for the existence of capitalism. I do not think that Germany actualized what Marxism is in essence, and it's fair to say that Marxism probably would not be outright associated with "nationalism" but I do not think it would be against long standing ethnic cultures or traditions, nor culture and instead replacing it all with this overly unified homogeneous "one world" type of culture as well (Americanized or otherwise) also I do not think that Marxism is altogether against working, it's just the very nature of how that is carried out or performed that is put into question.

    Sorry I will just stop now.
    Last edited by RisingForce; 02-22-2021 at 09:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    RisingForce- Nobody here would argue that Western democracies/capitalist countries haven't been a force for evil in their own right (even the handful of right-wing posters we have). We're just saying that maybe you don't have a grasp completely on what the differences are between socialism/communism/fascism. Also (as was pointed out by another poster) that just because something is labeled as "Socialist" or "Democratic" doesn't mean that it actually is. No shame in that, part of what the board is here for. I learn something from time to time, and even more rarely change my opinion on something based on new information.

    I'm far from an expert, but from what I understand while what you say about Germany providing jobs and security for their people under Hitler is true (provided you were of the right race/religion/orientation/political affiliation/etc.) that's not a socialist ideal. That's a nationalist one. "Deutschland uber alles" (like "America First"), that was their focus and reason for their initial success. We did the same thing after WWII (provided you were of the right race/religion/orientation/political affiliation), which is why some people unfortunately tend to romanticize the '50s.

    But we (and the Nazis, and the Communists) did that and do that by stepping on people/nations all over the world because we have the power to do so. It's not the doctrine or symptom of any particular political philosophy, it's just what happens (as I said in the "Did the Nazis Win" thread) when a group wants to gain, maintain, or grow power. It's bad human nature, and it's across the board.
    The whole appeal of Nazism was that it co-opted ideas both from the far right and the far left, so that it would provide a generous welfare state and plenty of public spending on infrastructure projects and the like, but that these benefits would not be distributed equally but restricted only to deserving Aryans. And certainly the theme of expropriating wealth from the scheming elites and distributing it amongst the the hard working masses can easily be twisted to identify international finance capital with Jews specifically. During the Weimar period at least the Nazis were certainly distinct from true right wingers like conservative monarchists and industrialists, who controlled most of the military and economy but had little public support, but after gaining power they purged most of their socialist elements in favor of a stronger alliance with the establishment in order to build up their war machine. It'd be wrong to say that the Nazis were just cynically misusing the label of "socialist" to draw public support, and if you look at most of the strands of neo-Nazism these days, there generally tends to be some element of wealth redistribution and reorganization of the economy to serve the interests of the "people," only defined along purely ethnic lines.

    The primary distinction between the fascist interpretation of socialism and Marxism is that the latter explicitly calls for an international workers revolution, and rejects the notion of expropriating resources from other nations in order to fund a strong welfare state at home, which of course would just be outright imperialism. Arguably, all countries that have had communist governments have strayed from this ideal to some extent or another, partially because they all adapted their ideology to fit local conditions which always included a healthy dose of nationalism, and also because the strident opposition from the capitalist world made it unpalatable to keep sinking resources to export the socialist revolution when their own economies remained poor and underdeveloped. The original goal of Marx, of workers in the industrialized world rising up and seizing the means of production, will likely never happen, because for better or for worse even the most radical left activists over here find it difficult to feel any solidarity with the poor huddled masses in the global south.
    Last edited by PwrdOn; 02-22-2021 at 09:59 AM.

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    https://www.yahoo.com/news/slavery-e...173008114.html

    Someone check Herschel Walker for CTE.

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    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...?ocid=msedgntp

    Kelly Loeffler has nothing better to do with her time since she lost in Georgia. She's forming a group to counter Stacey Abrams and she going to ensure that there is "election integrity", i.e. voter suppression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    The whole appeal of Nazism was that it co-opted ideas both from the far right and the far left, so that it would provide a generous welfare state and plenty of public spending on infrastructure projects and the like, but that these benefits would not be distributed equally but restricted only to deserving Aryans. And certainly the theme of expropriating wealth from the scheming elites and distributing it amongst the the hard working masses can easily be twisted to identify international finance capital with Jews specifically. During the Weimar period at least the Nazis were certainly distinct from true right wingers like conservative monarchists and industrialists, who controlled most of the military and economy but had little public support, but after gaining power they purged most of their socialist elements in favor of a stronger alliance with the establishment in order to build up their war machine. It'd be wrong to say that the Nazis were just cynically misusing the label of "socialist" to draw public support, and if you look at most of the strands of neo-Nazism these days, there generally tends to be some element of wealth redistribution and reorganization of the economy to serve the interests of the "people," only defined along purely ethnic lines.

    The primary distinction between the fascist interpretation of socialism and Marxism is that the latter explicitly calls for an international workers revolution, and rejects the notion of expropriating resources from other nations in order to fund a strong welfare state at home, which of course would just be outright imperialism. Arguably, all countries that have had communist governments have strayed from this ideal to some extent or another, partially because they all adapted their ideology to fit local conditions which always included a healthy dose of nationalism, and also because the strident opposition from the capitalist world made it unpalatable to keep sinking resources to export the socialist revolution when their own economies remained poor and underdeveloped. The original goal of Marx, of workers in the industrialized world rising up and seizing the means of production, will likely never happen, because for better or for worse even the most radical left activists over here find it difficult to feel any solidarity with the poor huddled masses in the global south.
    Well it's true you could almost say that they had purged certain elements it could also be stated that they wanted procure unyielding allegiance to the nazi party that was already established and if you were not really in support or on board with the countries main prerogatives and objectives then you were mostly like saw as some time of nuisance or dead weight that they did not really want to bother justifiably having around, and I think that's mostly where it stemmed from. The country felt like they had effectively done all they could to adequately bolster morale, feed and support it's citizens.

    Though while they arguably purge many individuals that may still at some point after the National Socialist German Workers party was elected, they may simply lacked the funds to adequately feed many of it's citizens that it kept in labour camps as I suppose you could say that German was quite self sufficient and relatively economically independent I guess.

    I mean, it seems like common sense at that point, they had clearly defined that in their minds, socialism and communism were all facets of the "international finance" system which they were clearly opposed and if you did not comprehend that then you were seen as an enemy. They felt like they had achieved socialist effectively as much as they could given their limits means as they were again self reliant and not able to easily borrow from abundant monetary sources for welfare and like and again, it could be argued that socialism is not exactly welfare they trained, fed and clothed everyone that was seemingly the most practical purpose for socialism existing, wasn't it? in their minds at least.
    Last edited by RisingForce; 02-22-2021 at 10:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingForce View Post
    Well it's true you could almost say that they had purged certain elements it could also be stated that they wanted procure unyielding allegiance to the nazi party that was already established and if you were not really in support or on board with the countries main prerogatives and objectives then you were mostly like saw as some time of nuisance or dead weight that they did not really want to bother justifiably having around, and I think that's mostly where it stemmed from. The country felt like they had effectively done all they could to adequately bolster morale, feed and support it's citizens.

    Though while they arguably purge many individuals that may still at some point after the National Socialist German Workers party was elected, they may simply lacked the funds to adequately feed many of it's citizens that it kept in labour camps as I suppose you could say that German was quite self sufficient and relatively economically independent I guess.

    I mean, it seems like common sense at that point, they had clearly defined that in their minds, socialism and communism were all facets of the "international finance" system which they were clearly opposed and if you did not comprehend that then you were seen as an enemy. They felt like they had achieved socialist effectively as much as they could given their limits means as they were again self reliant and not able to easily borrow from abundant monetary sources for welfare and like and again, it could be argued that socialism is not exactly welfare they trained, fed and clothed everyone that was seemingly the most practical purpose for socialism existing, wasn't it? in their minds at least.
    Well the economy of Nazi Germany was pretty much held together by duct tape throughout the entire period, because production was hampered by their unwillingness to put women into the workforce to replace men who had been drafted into the army, or to adopt the kind of severe rationing that the Allies employed. Combine this with the blatant corruption of most of the military and political leadership, and you have an economy that ran basically entirely off of the wealth plundered from conquered territories, so that even if the Nazis had won the war they would have just had to start a new one just so they'd have new places to loot from.

    Whatever the Nazis' original intentions to build a welfare state at home, once the war started they just found that it was much easier to keep funneling money into the military in order to steal from everyone else, rather than doing the world of building a sustainable economy of their own, and it's doubtful that they would have reversed tack under any scenario. Their economy was basically the equivalent of this (start watching at 2:00).


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    Extraordinary Member CaptainEurope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingForce View Post
    Yes well, those are ancient items from Europe, I am sure that there is more then some passing coincidence or similarity.

    I am sure it is similar to the explanation behind the french the fleur-de-lis and not just a combination of flags, those are ancient symbols from medieval European history.
    I'm sure you screen name is actually a call to insurrection.

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    Extraordinary Member CaptainEurope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    So the Supreme Court quietly denied Trump's effort to block a subpoena for 8 years of tax returns requested by SDNY.
    Mr. Trump will be going through some things.

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    They have so little, one has to laugh at the feeble attempts at whataboutism:


    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

    Hillary was right!

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    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    It was unanimous. Wonder what Roberts offered the Trump appointees to make that happen. Abortion?
    I'm honestly surprised. I figured at least one of Trump's appointees would have dissented.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Is this guy expecting one of us to be big fans of Churchill or something?
    More like somebody that thinks "Big G" governments and "Big Tech" put their citizens & users under pervasive surveillance. They do this so that can switch off their bank account and see private information they communicate. AKA a Parler user.
    Quote Originally Posted by RisingForce View Post
    *posts from a PPNP that does not track back to GAFAM*

    Theory confirmed.

    Interesting posts new person to the thread

    None of us are secret Nazis or Communists or part of the Illuminati.

    We might be conservatives, socialists, and pro/anti globalism here but there is not a big scary CBR conspiracy going on here. No revolution is starting in this thread. We're basically a beer-drinking, semi-heady, pub talking group. Minus the pub and beer (WBE maybe not).

    *drinks the CBR Kool-Aid*
    Last edited by BeastieRunner; 02-22-2021 at 10:48 AM.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

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    Ultimate Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mogwen View Post
    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/22/p...nce/index.html

    Supreme Court allows release of Trump tax returns to NY prosecutor!
    Hey! Nobody told you it's christmas again? Who is having a really really bad day at his resort? Not me!
    I agree with those who speculate that what Trump is really hiding his tax returns for is to keep us from finding out that he's not as rich as he says he is. I mean the guy's whole brand is being the go-to caricature when anyone wants to compare how rich someone is to some benchmark for a rich guy. If we all find out that Trump isn't really all that rich, why, we'll have to go back to saying Rockefeller or Bill Gates as short-hand for a rich guy.
    Watching television is not an activity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Well the economy of Nazi Germany was pretty much held together by duct tape throughout the entire period, because production was hampered by their unwillingness to put women into the workforce to replace men who had been drafted into the army, or to adopt the kind of severe rationing that the Allies employed. Combine this with the blatant corruption of most of the military and political leadership, and you have an economy that ran basically entirely off of the wealth plundered from conquered territories, so that even if the Nazis had won the war they would have just had to start a new one just so they'd have new places to loot from.

    Whatever the Nazis' original intentions to build a welfare state at home, once the war started they just found that it was much easier to keep funneling money into the military in order to steal from everyone else, rather than doing the world of building a sustainable economy of their own, and it's doubtful that they would have reversed tack under any scenario. Their economy was basically the equivalent of this (start watching at 2:00).

    I wouldn't know for sure, in all the documentaries I watched about WW2 and Nazi Germany it seemed like the economy was quite prosperous for some time, and that the Germans were also quite industrious in the amount of military units like tanks, airplanes and ships they were able to pump out, but I never really saw them going into much greater detail.

    They basically just felt as though they should have the right to basically conquered territories or landmasses like what Britain had achieved and virtually had imperial ambitions not all dissimilar from many other groups such as America or the aforementioned, Britain and maybe even the much lauded Jews, though they are strangely unmentionable in that regard (Zionists I suppose would be a sufficient term?)

    The Germans apparently did drugs and had nearing the end of the war started to suffer from the effects of relying on drugs to give them the edge, which made me some of the reasons for their above stated problems.

    I imagine it would be quite frightening going up against Nazis on speed, but that's fundamentally what the secret of the blitzkriegs were I guess.

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