T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[BlackClaw]

I don't even think the sequel with Chadwick would have made as much as the first. I think the first one was a lightning in a bottle similar to the first Avengers movie. BP was riding crazy hype coming off of billion dollar Civil War and came out right after super hyped Ragnorak and right before nutso hyped Infinity War.

I think just by natural lessening of hype factor for the MCU has a whole is going to bring down ticket sales overall. I am not one of those people who think that, "after end game, the MCU has nothing going for it" but there is no denying that it is unlikely the MCU buzz will be anywhere near as loud in 2022 as it was in 2018-2019. You had consistent momentum since 2008 to build that initial hype. I really doubt a couple year sof black widow, shang, and eternals will re-create it in 2 years.

Without Chadwick, it means the franchise has to be carried by... Lupita? She has the biggest name yet but that is a giant leap forward for her. and T'challa love interest without T'challa is ultra weird. So do you turn to anti-vax idiot Letitia? "not been in anything" Winston? "walking dead isn't popular anymore" Danai? Do you burst W'kabi out of jail? I would expect a A list villain actor for sure. They are probably blowing up Denzel's phone everyday.

Like I said, if this film doesn’t perform as well as the original they are either gonna back pedal and recast or just close the door on the BP franchise for good. Not helping matters is that if the film does underperform, you just know that yasss queen Twitter is gonna go berserk and blame black men.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

No one wants to hear this, but even pointing back to the moment Coogler questioned how much he liked T'Challa initially. Its just hard for people to wrap their mind around a perfect character. Its why Superman is still in limbo now.

I'll never forget Marc Bernardin's review of BP. Probably the most scathing positive review of the film at the time. (Remember it was like 98% positive and even this one is positive as well. However, his issue was T'Challa)

It’s as if everyone enlisted to bring the project to life understood the magnitude of what Black Panther, the first comic-based studio movie with a black hero at the center since 1998’s Blade, would represent: The chance to fill every corner of their fictional Wakanda with the same level of craft and detail usually reserved for British-star-studded period pieces; an opportunity to tell a story about black lives, which matter and are not defined by their pain but, instead, by their glory; an answer to a culture’s question, “When will it be our time in the sun?”

As such, it can be hard to separate what Black Panther means from what it is. What it means is everything, especially to any kid who has never put the words “African” and “king” together in the same sentence. Or to any young woman who was ever discouraged from chasing a life in science and technology. To anyone who was ever told “you fight like a girl.”

As for what it is? Black Panther is like the most delicious cake you’ve ever tasted in your entire life, but which isn’t quite cooked all the way through.

In fact, every character’s wants and needs are clearly defined, with one exception: T’Challa’s. When the film opens, he wants to be king. Ten minutes and one ceremonial duel with rival tribe-leader M’Baku (Winston Duke) later, he’s king. After that, he wants to maintain the status quo: Preserve the Wakandan way of life. But the status quo, by definition, is static, and stasis isn’t drama. His romance with Nakia never exceeds nascence; by the time the film ends, you might’ve forgotten they had ever been “a thing.” For too much of Black Panther, the Black Panther has everything he wants.

On top of this, he is also almost entirely devoid of flaws. He’s a deadly martial artist, a stalwart friend, well-educated, even-tempered, quick to smile, and, despite all that, he’s humble. Flaws are the grooves, the nocks that add depth. Perfection in fiction, unlike in life, can be boring. I mean, even Indiana Jones was afraid of snakes.

The movie leaps to its feet when T’Challa, Nakia, and Okoye find themselves in Busan, South Korea, hot on the heels of the criminal Klaue. For a hot 15 minutes, Black Panther becomes the best Bond movie you’ll ever see, partially because, here, the Panther wants something—to kill or capture Klaue. But this can also be thanked to the bone-crushing, wall-smashing action executed to perfection by director Ryan Coogler, who takes to it like an artist in love with the ways human bodies can cause destruction. Quickly, the sequence morphs into a car chase that feels as inspired by anime as it does by John Frankenheimer’s Ronin.

Then, Black Panther settles back into its groove, in which everything on the periphery is awesome (especially the Dora Milaje…my gods, the Dora Milaje), but the center does not hold. Though Boseman pivots from dignity to delight on a dime, the screenplay (by Coogler and Joe Robert Cole) has trouble finding ways to emotionally engage with the character, all the way through to an action climax whose humanity is outweighed by its CGI.

https://nerdist.com/article/black-panther-review/
Now imagine wanting to nerf the character even more. I think for whatever reason everything around T'Challa was too good for people. So much so that he blended in and thats why Feige is able to move on. It doesnt matter that imo Boseman gave one of the best Superhero performances in a solo film I've seen. The level of nuance was there.

It seems it sets up now for them to do more flawed characters. Because TO THEM its easier to do that then hope someone is as good as Boseman at making at a peak character relatable.

[Ezyo1000]

Yup, Wakanda is black excellence personified, you don't need T'Challa specifically as an entry point to sell that world. At least that's the rationale that Disney probably has (outside the fact Coogler and the cast might not have wanted a recast). As long as they can parade any ole black person in the BP habit they think audiences will support the film. Shuri, Killmonger, Okoye, Nakia, M'Baku, it truthfully doesn't matter because the marketing will be more or less the same.

We'll see if that theory holds water when the film drops. BP2 had such strong legs because of repeat viewings and strong support from black consumers. If the sequel does little more than give a nice send-off to T'Challa, people will only watch it once to respect Boseman and nothing more. The film would underperform and that'll be all the proof Disney needs to know the franchise needs T'Challa at the helm. If the film meets their expectations (in a post-COVID economy no less) then yea, T'Challa is entirely nonessential to the world of Wakanda in the eyes of general audiences. And those who were saying this is an ensemble franchise were right from the start.



Nope, and I'm sure they'll have his daughter waiting in the wings too lol. But if they make the movie R-rated that does give me a bit of hope.

To me it's wtf is the hook? Wakanda is advanced but not Starwars level tech, Erik burned the HSH so that's gone. Wakanda lost its king/Black Panther and princess regent/ head of design group for 5 years so it's assumed that there was no BP and probably not much in terms of advancements in tech. So you got the supporting cast who have no powers, no connection to their god or ancestral plane, the story points from opening Wakanda lead by T'Challa are going to be.. dropped? None of the characters are capable of facing off against actual high powered threat's due to MCUs clear power tiers.. I mean this franchise isn't as set up as a Starwars or FF franchise as they would like to lead on. Especially since now we know Coogler is rewriting the script... I feel like they are going to shoot themselves in the foot

[Frontier]

I dunno what bothers me more, Marvel Studios underselling the main character of the franchise by implying his kingdom is more interesting than he is and can carry a movie (don't we have Disney+ shows for that?) or that Wakanda is apparently more special than Asgard since that was apparently so uninteresting that they could blow it all up and not look back.

[Overhazard]

No one wants to hear this, but even pointing back to the moment Coogler questioned how much he liked T'Challa initially. Its just hard for people to wrap their mind around a perfect character. Its why Superman is still in limbo now.

I'll never forget Marc Bernardin's review of BP. Probably the most scathing positive review of the film at the time. (Remember it was like 98% positive and even this one is positive as well. However, his issue was T'Challa)

https://nerdist.com/article/black-panther-review/
Now imagine wanting to nerf the character even more. I think for whatever reason everything around T'Challa was too good for people. So much so that he blended in and thats why Feige is able to move on. It doesnt matter that imo Boseman gave one of the best Superhero performances in a solo film I've seen. The level of nuance was there.

It seems it sets up now for them to do more flawed characters. Because TO THEM its easier to do that then hope someone is as good as Boseman at making at a peak character relatable.

The idea that Superman is boring comes from a shallow, superficial understanding of the character. The same can be applied to T'Challa. I suppose he stands out in the marvel universe even more because most of the marvel heroes have some major issues. Spider-Man has survivors guilt, the Hulk has anger, Iron Man has his arrogance. T'Challa doesn't have any of that.
I guess Coates had that interpretation too, hence him making T'challa an inept oaf who never really wanted to be king.

This whole thing of shoving T'challa aside just for Wakanda is just so wrong.

[skyvolt2000]

Of the millions who watched the film several times and bought the dvds and such...how many were actual comic book readers and of that number, how many were actually staunch readers of the BP comic book leading up before the Movie was released?

Well how many had access to the TRADES?

Remember Priest's run didn't get past vol 2.
Pretty much anyone who saw Black Panther before Coates or the movie being greenlighted-only saw HUDLIN'S version. Which is another issue in itself.

How many stores and libraries stocked that run?

I live in one of the 9th largest cities in the USA and 3rd in Texas. How many copies of Hudlin's Panther does my library system have? 10. Two of those are Shuri's run. The rest Black Panther 1-6 and 19-25. His wedding nor the rest of the series is there.
Coates? 17 and most of them are special editions that have 12 issues.

Coates run I got free access to. I can go to Office Depot and get his Black Panther trade. Here is what is funny about that-it was selling at full price while Wonder Woman and Flash were discounted and no one was touching them.

For a lot of folks Coates Panther is the first encounter book wise for them.

It's the aesthetics of Wakanda that people love. The casual fans, non comic readers, have a hard time seeing past the aesthetic of Wakanda.

This is what happens when your people are not shown an Africa that is not Sally Struthers screaming feed the children or 7-11 year olds with guns ready to protector a black version of Trump or Hotel Rwanda.

They IGNORE the part of how much of what they saw was already there in Africa. Coolger just added it to Wakanda. That movie helped every African store on the planet.

This time they will probably push a "black queen" angle WITH a healthy dose of "do it for Chadwick!" type of chants.

And if you don't-your blackness will be QUESTIONED and you hate your momma by the SAME fake woke folks who did NOT support Proud Mary.

If the second movie turns out to be more successful than the first, then it will further validate the fact that T'Challa is not essential to this franchise.

Is that no different than the book by Coates?

Or the fake woke folks who were more concerned about how black women were done in the movie than anything else? Once again the SAME folks who were silent at Star War The Force Awakens treatment of black women or the previous 16 Marvel films.

I expect him to slither back into relative obscurity like so many "fans" seem to want.

Well now that they got the black male unfriendly franchise that ignores what skin tone Sunspot is SUPPOSE to be-they might do that.

[chief12d]

The idea that Superman is boring comes from a shallow, superficial understanding of the character. The same can be applied to T'Challa. I suppose he stands out in the marvel universe even more because most of the marvel heroes have some major issues. Spider-Man has survivors guilt, the Hulk has anger, Iron Man has his arrogance. T'Challa doesn't have any of that.
I guess Coates had that interpretation too, hence him making T'challa an inept oaf who never really wanted to be king.

This whole thing of shoving T'challa aside just for Wakanda is just so wrong.

Even besides that T’Challa isn’t THAT perfect to begin with. He hasn’t been a perfectly moral, ideal man since the days of Priest. That’s not to say he’s an anti-hero or something. But T’Challa is manipulative, arrogant to a fault and standoffish. The moral paragon we got in the solo movie has elements of Priest/Hudlin but it’s really its own thing and not the fault of the comics he came off as “boring” to that reviewer.

[skyvolt2000]

I dunno what bothers me more, Marvel Studios underselling the main character of the franchise by implying his kingdom is more interesting than he is and can carry a movie (don't we have Disney+ shows for that?) or that Wakanda is apparently more special than Asgard since that was apparently so uninteresting that they could blow it all up and not look back.

A Disney + show can show Wakanda not a big budget movie.

To me it's wtf is the hook?

Pull a Cap Planet or Powers Rangers...
Wakanda is in peril-the Panther Gods sends 5 rings to 5 young people...

Miles from Brooklyn with power of the spider
Riri from (where is she from again?) with power of metal
Alex from (see above) with the power of magic
David from New York with the power of Knowledge
Silhouette with the power of shadows

Wakanda Forever!
That is one way to sneak Mutants, Spiderman, New Warriors & Ironheart into the live action movie verse.

Or show how much influence on the world Wakanda has done. Pick a villain to get jealous and tries to end that. Now the issue is who fights the bad guy?

[Ezyo1000]

No one wants to hear this, but even pointing back to the moment Coogler questioned how much he liked T'Challa initially. Its just hard for people to wrap their mind around a perfect character. Its why Superman is still in limbo now.

I'll never forget Marc Bernardin's review of BP. Probably the most scathing positive review of the film at the time. (Remember it was like 98% positive and even this one is positive as well. However, his issue was T'Challa)

https://nerdist.com/article/black-panther-review/
Now imagine wanting to nerf the character even more. I think for whatever reason everything around T'Challa was too good for people. So much so that he blended in and thats why Feige is able to move on. It doesnt matter that imo Boseman gave one of the best Superhero performances in a solo film I've seen. The level of nuance was there.

It seems it sets up now for them to do more flawed characters. Because TO THEM its easier to do that then hope someone is as good as Boseman at making at a peak character relatable.

By that logic Cap should be boring Because he is the same as T'Challa in terms of his character and doesn't really have flaws. T'Challa doesn't have glaringly obvious flaws like tony/ thor's/ strange's arrogance, or massive anger issues like hulk. He wasn't fully in control of his emotions was his flaw.we saw this in CW when he was clouded by the death of his father and chasing Bucky. Same with klaw. He wasn't fully in control Which caused him to be not focused when facing Erik the first time. He was chasing his father's shadow and had an idealistic view of him. As for having trouble emotionally engaging the character... What? The whole third act is emotional engagement for the character, and it's done masterfully.

Plus they are also wrong about his goals. His goal wasn't to maintain the status quo his goal was to surround himself with people he trusted and get their opinions. He was always doing things differently then tradition. He just didn't jump at everyone's opinion and provided counterpoints to what they were saying like a normal person would. But even then he still showed how he was different by taking Ross to Wakanda no question about it (Ontop of already having Bucky there and when he his Cap in Wakanda).

The Nakia thing is weird Because it was pretty clear there was a ton chemistry and attraction from the moment they first interact in the film.

Ultimately I think the thing's the film did right have worked like a double edged sword. T'Challa doesn't have extremely glaring flaws like Thor or Tony (though no one seems to bat an eye at Caps lack of flaws). His supporting cast had actual agency and we're capable far more then the average cast (while clearly outclassed by T'Challa still), and Wakanda was developed enough to have some interesting concepts about it that make it more than just a generic "advanced nation". These concepts, if T'Challa was white, would of been hailed to high heaven's and we would of already had D+ spin offs of Wakanda and possibly a supporting cast member.

However, for black characters, these positives are twisted and warped into excuses to pull the BS we are seeing now

[Marvell2100]

I dunno what bothers me more, Marvel Studios underselling the main character of the franchise by implying his kingdom is more interesting than he is and can carry a movie (don't we have Disney+ shows for that?) or that Wakanda is apparently more special than Asgard since that was apparently so uninteresting that they could blow it all up and not look back.

All of it.

Like someone else said, what will be the hook for someone wanting to see BP2? "Come see the amazing world of Wakanda! See the normal day-to-day routine of your average Wakandan!"

They best they can do is have the new actor playing BP appear at the end of the movie.

[Marvell2100]

Even besides that T’Challa isn’t THAT perfect to begin with. He hasn’t been a perfectly moral, ideal man since the days of Priest. That’s not to say he’s an anti-hero or something. But T’Challa is manipulative, arrogant to a fault and standoffish. The moral paragon we got in the solo movie has elements of Priest/Hudlin but it’s really its own thing and not the fault of the comics he came off as “boring” to that reviewer.

I've said it before, T'Challa is not a superhero. He's a king.

[Frontier]

I've said it before, T'Challa is not a superhero. He's a king.

He's a Superhero king. I don't see the need to deny one aspect over another.

I mean, his kingly garb is basically a skintight spandex costume on the surface.

[chief12d]

I've said it before, T'Challa is not a superhero. He's a king.

Basically. Like Frontier said T’Challa is also a hero. To be more specific I’d say he’s a king with a lot of superheroic tendencies. Regardless of how you define it T’Challa’s roles in life do not lend themselves to being a perfect moral being. The first film clearly set up an arc where he’d be forced to wrestle with the moral ambiguity of being a ruler. So perhaps we would’ve gotten a less “beacon of morality” T’Challa.

[Nate Grey]

By that logic Cap should be boring Because he is the same as T'Challa in terms of his character and doesn't really have flaws. T'Challa doesn't have glaringly obvious flaws like tony/ thor's/ strange's arrogance, or massive anger issues like hulk. He wasn't fully in control of his emotions was his flaw.we saw this in CW when he was clouded by the death of his father and chasing Bucky. Same with klaw. He wasn't fully in control Which caused him to be not focused when facing Erik the first time. He was chasing his father's shadow and had an idealistic view of him. As for having trouble emotionally engaging the character... What? The whole third act is emotional engagement for the character, and it's done masterfully.

Plus they are also wrong about his goals. His goal wasn't to maintain the status quo his goal was to surround himself with people he trusted and get their opinions. He was always doing things differently then tradition. He just didn't jump at everyone's opinion and provided counterpoints to what they were saying like a normal person would. But even then he still showed how he was different by taking Ross to Wakanda no question about it (Ontop of already having Bucky there and when he his Cap in Wakanda).

The Nakia thing is weird Because it was pretty clear there was a ton chemistry and attraction from the moment they first interact in the film.

Ultimately I think the thing's the film did right have worked like a double edged sword. T'Challa doesn't have extremely glaring flaws like Thor or Tony (though no one seems to bat an eye at Caps lack of flaws). His supporting cast had actual agency and we're capable far more then the average cast (while clearly outclassed by T'Challa still), and Wakanda was developed enough to have some interesting concepts about it that make it more than just a generic "advanced nation". These concepts, if T'Challa was white, would of been hailed to high heaven's and we would of already had D+ spin offs of Wakanda and possibly a supporting cast member.

However, for black characters, these positives are twisted and warped into excuses to pull the BS we are seeing now

Just go ahead and change your name to Mic Drop. Cause everything you said...correct.

[XJlock]

Kevin Feige stated this today.

I see he still has yet to reveal his fate moving forward. Dead or alive?