T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[Username taken]

How can you even call it Black Panther II without the damn Black Panther in it?

That’s the million dollar question.

Why is Marvel pushing full steam ahead to make a BP 2 without the main character?

What exactly is the hook here?

[dkrook]

That’s the million dollar question.

Why is Marvel pushing full steam ahead to make a BP 2 without the main character?

What exactly is the hook here?

Answer....all crook and no hook!

[Vordan]

T'Challa has heroic tendencies but he's not a superhero. He's practical and in many cases an ends justifies the means kinda guy.

Up to a certain point I’d agree. However T’Challa does seem to take a “what’s good for the world at large is good for Wakanda also” stance as opposed to the “Wakanda First” mentality of his predecessors.

[Steel Inquisitor]

That’s the million dollar question.

Why is Marvel pushing full steam ahead to make a BP 2 without the main character?

What exactly is the hook here?

It's almost like they know the Black Panther is a super-hero who has successors to that mantle that don't begin and end with T'Challa. Surely nobody introduced in the last movie or characters from the comics could ever be the next Black Panther in the sequel. That'd be ridiculous, it's not like Marvel hasn't got a new Captain America now Steve Rogers is retired. Oh wait, they do.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Shame on the Russos for not giving us this moment.
https://preview.redd.it/oc3v2xk8psa6...t=mp4&9f2476eb

[Redjack]

Redjack's Panther felt like the defender of Wakanda, first and foremost, but with the idealism and care for others that lends himself to being a Superhero who can team-up with The Avengers and fight for stuff that doesn't necessarily always pertain to Wakanda.

And then he had T'Challa (almost) kill Namor and then they end up teaming-up in Secret Wars and pretty much throw all their issues to the curb.

Lee and Kirby's T'Challa was not a super-hero

McGregor's T'Challa was a super-hero and a king

Kirby's T'Challa was an adventurer and a king

Priest's T'Challa was not a super-hero.

Hudlin's T'Challa was not a super-hero

Aaron's T'Challa was not a super-hero.

Liss's T'Challa stood in for a super-hero for a short time.

BPQ T'Challa was not a super-hero.

Ewing's T'Challa was an adventurer and a king.

Hickman's T'Challa was not a super-hero

Coates's T'Challa is not a super-hero

Narcisse's T'Challa is not a super-hero

The Panther is here for Wakanda first. When something threatens the world, it threatens Wakanda. The Avengers (in comics) were a potential threat to Wakanda that needed a hands-on approach to investigation.

[Ekie]

It's almost like they know the Black Panther is a super-hero who has successors to that mantle that don't begin and end with T'Challa. Surely nobody introduced in the last movie or characters from the comics could ever be the next Black Panther in the sequel. That'd be ridiculous, it's not like Marvel hasn't got a new Captain America now Steve Rogers is retired. Oh wait, they do.

Your points are always baffling. Steve Rogers has 7 movies under his belt. Three solos and 2 avengers movies as the top or second guy. If falcon had replaced Cap in captain America 2 then youd have a point, if tragedy befell Thor and they went with Jane in Thor 2 while talking about Asguard being the draw and exploring that... then youd have a point...but does anyone here think Marvel would have tried that or that fans would ok it?

[Steel Inquisitor]

Your points are always baffling. Steve Rogers has 7 movies under his belt. Three solos and 2 avengers movies as the top or second guy. If falcon had replaced Cap in captain America 2 then youd have a point, if tragedy befell Thor and they went with Jane in Thor 2 while talking about Asguard being the draw and exploring that... then youd have a point...but does anyone here think Marvel would have tried that or that fans would ok it?

Don't gaslight me, please. My point is clear in my last post, Marvel will have someone up to task to replace T'Challa in the sequel, stop acting like Cooger's just a hack who's idea of a sequel will be 2 hours of a screen with the Black Panther title in the centre as though he has nothing to work with in the property or his Hollywood pedigree. Marvel has shown more than once they're ok replacing their heroes with new characters, just like in the comics and they don't need to do it when an actor passes. And don't act like their repalcmetns are anything like what's happened with Black Panther, none of those actors died that's why they were able to have long runs in movies. Natalie Portman's the new Thor, too. Naturally Thor fans, both when it was done in the comics and announced in the MCU has a hissy fit over a woman being the new Thor. Why is Falcon replacing Steve as Cap not being acknowledged in the MCU? Do you not think none of those heroes were replaced by legacies in the comics? Marvel has tried that, past tense, in the comics and in the MCU. I'd need a chart for the numerous characters who have had the mantle of Captain America in the comics. I just showed a trailer of one of those mantle passings. But sure, ignore the facts I bought up it's not like they were being listened to. All that matters is burning the franchise to the ground since they haven't recast T'Challa.

I am curious, what's your stance on black and minority heroes taking over mantles of white super-heroes?

I read a trade for Coate's run recently and a while to get into and the writing is dry at least at first but man, the reactions were completely overboard as expected. If Priest had made his run today he'd have been called an SJW by now. Coates let Storm, one of the most powerful super-heroes in Marvel, have time to shine occasionally and T'Challa was ok admitting that what she did helped him on the battlefield. Stop the presses.

Fandom is a very large group of people, especially after he movie dropped, some fans like things and some fans don't. That's normal for any fandom.

Priest's T'Challa was not a super-hero.

Aaron's T'Challa was not a super-hero.

Both of these T'Challa's were on Avengers teams.T'Challa was directly involved in "Ultron Unlimited." In "The Client" Panther was stopping street crime in the area he was living, and his successor fought a street gang.

[Blind Wedjat]

How about both of you stop with these flimsy comparisons? What Feige and Coogler have had to deal with here is an entirely new circumstance almost no other major franchise has ever had to deal with. It's not like Reeve's Superman, Howard's War Machine, Norton's Hulk, Ledger's Joker and so on. It has its own entire set of nuances that make it its own complicated beast altogether and both of the parties involved are doing what they feel is best based on their own experiences with Chadwick.

I'm sorry but you guys are gonna have to learn this sooner or later: no one in Hollywood is trying to victimise you, vindicate you or punish you. All they're trying to do is first make money and work on their craft second. Maybe you get brought on along on the ride once in a while but that's as far as you ever go.

Black Panther doesn't belong to us. The character and lore was created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, and Marvel and Disney own the intellectual property and can use it however they see fit to achieve their goals of making money. That's really all it is.

This narrative that Coogler is a hack and not a good enough Black man or whatever to respect the character or that Feige dislikes the character because he is a White man, or that they're simply doing what is expected is all inconsequential. It's also childish. I'm sorry.

[Dboi654]

[Marvell2100]

Does that necessarily prevent him from being a Superhero? It's just how he operates, but he generally does all the standard Superhero stuff. Usually the ends he attempts to get to benefit everyone involved even if they don't see it until the reveal of what he was trying to do.

I mean, he's leading and funding The Avengers at this point. How can he not be a Superhero and do that?

By the basic definition he's not a superhero. He's done heroic things for sure but so has Namor and even Doom. While he doesn't have the atrocities that they've committed, a lot of his actions are questionable. A lot of his motivations aren't about what's the heroic thing to do.

[jwatson]

Don't gaslight me, please. My point is clear in my last post, Marvel will have someone up to task to replace T'Challa in the sequel, stop acting like Cooger's just a hack who's idea of a sequel will be 2 hours of a screen with the Black Panther title in the centre as though he has nothing to work with in the property or his Hollywood pedigree. Marvel has shown more than once they're ok replacing their heroes with new characters, just like in the comics and they don't need to do it when an actor passes. And don't act like their repalcmetns are anything like what's happened with Black Panther, none of those actors died that's why they were able to have long runs in movies. Natalie Portman's the new Thor, too. Naturally Thor fans, both when it was done in the comics and announced in the MCU has a hissy fit over a woman being the new Thor. Why is Falcon replacing Steve as Cap not being acknowledged in the MCU? Do you not think none of those heroes were replaced by legacies in the comics? Marvel has tried that, past tense, in the comics and in the MCU. I'd need a chart for the numerous characters who have had the mantle of Captain America in the comics. I just showed a trailer of one of those mantle passings. But sure, ignore the facts I bought up it's not like they were being listened to. All that matters is burning the franchise to the ground since they haven't recast T'Challa.

I am curious, what's your stance on black and minority heroes taking over mantles of white super-heroes?

I read a trade for Coate's run recently and a while to get into and the writing is dry at least at first but man, the reactions were completely overboard as expected. If Priest had made his run today he'd have been called an SJW by now. Coates let Storm, one of the most powerful super-heroes in Marvel, have time to shine occasionally and T'Challa was ok admitting that what she did helped him on the battlefield. Stop the presses.

Fandom is a very large group of people, especially after he movie dropped, some fans like things and some fans don't. That's normal for any fandom.



Both of these T'Challa's were on Avengers teams.T'Challa was directly involved in "Ultron Unlimited." In "The Client" Panther was stopping street crime in the area he was living, and his successor fought a street gang.

I don't trust coogler. Personally aside from what it meant the BP movie had ALOT of plot holes in it and it wasn't even really about BP. IN the first movie he spent more time showing anyone could be black panther than he did building up Tchalla so maybe i'm in the minority but i don't feel Coogler would be that big of a loss as director. And i know i'm probably a man of one on this. And i do agree with those who said if this was a white hero he would have been recast, the movie delayed, or they would have just done a disney + show instead it feels like they think black people will come to see anything about Wakanda and get lost in that world but Wakanda ain't Avatar.

And i also don't think it's that farfetched to believe if they don't recast tchalla or make a multiverse one that looks different there will be no tchalla in the comics soon. They will synergize the hell out of it and i am sure all too many writers who don't actually care about the mythos or the character will be all too happy to sit somebody else on the throne and feel like they building something new.

[MindofShadow]

The Avengers (in comics) were a potential threat to Wakanda that needed a hands-on approach to investigation.

Sure... the first time.

What about other times he joined the team just to do super hero things?

Or the Fantastic Four?

He is a superhero king or a kingly superhero. He slides on that same scale as Namor, Blackbolt, Doom but while Doom slides nearly pure evil, T'challa sides nearly pure good.

Acting like he is Black Bolt (someone who rarely gets involved in anything non-atillian related) is kind of exaggerating IMHO

[MindofShadow]

How about both of you stop with these flimsy comparisons? What Feige and Coogler have had to deal with here is an entirely new circumstance almost no other major franchise has ever had to deal with. It's not like Reeve's Superman, Howard's War Machine, Norton's Hulk, Ledger's Joker and so on. It has its own entire set of nuances that make it its own complicated beast altogether and both of the parties involved are doing what they feel is best based on their own experiences with Chadwick.

I'm sorry but you guys are gonna have to learn this sooner or later: no one in Hollywood is trying to victimise you, vindicate you or punish you. All they're trying to do is first make money and work on their craft second. Maybe you get brought on along on the ride once in a while but that's as far as you ever go.

Black Panther doesn't belong to us. The character and lore was created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, and Marvel and Disney own the intellectual property and can use it however they see fit to achieve their goals of making money. That's really all it is.

This narrative that Coogler is a hack and not a good enough Black man or whatever to respect the character or that Feige dislikes the character because he is a White man, or that they're simply doing what is expected is all inconsequential. It's also childish. I'm sorry.

As an aside:

I think part of the problem with how Marvel is handling this situation is that they keep using a white guy to tell "us" that T'challa really isn't that important. It comes off wrong.

If.... errrrr... (are there any POC high up in MCU????)... ummm... Coolger was the one saying it, then it would have somewhat more weight IMO and not come off weird.

But, Hollywood is gonna Hollywood. There is no reason to go scorch earth and magically make up that Coogler can't direct and Feige is a hack. They are both very good at their job.

It is a Business. Not a social justice party. Some of yall (including me) just got caught up and tricked the first time lol.

[Tofali]

I don't trust coogler. Personally aside from what it meant the BP movie had ALOT of plot holes in it and it wasn't even really about BP. IN the first movie he spent more time showing anyone could be black panther than he did building up Tchalla so maybe i'm in the minority but i don't feel Coogler would be that big of a loss as director. And i know i'm probably a man of one on this. And i do agree with those who said if this was a white hero he would have been recast, the movie delayed, or they would have just done a disney + show instead it feels like they think black people will come to see anything about Wakanda and get lost in that world but Wakanda ain't Avatar.

Oh! you are not alone. Black Panther really was everybody's movie BUT T'Challa's. I'm not that surprised that they could actually crack a script for the sequel this fast because T'Challa's role in the first movie wasn't as memorable as every other character around him.