T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[MindofShadow]

Anybody who watched Black Panther and decided the movie wasn't about T'challa must have been on their phone the whole movie. Or they watched the movie trying to nitpick every minute instead of... watching the movie.

Y'alls lives would be a lot better if you weren't so... angry and looking for reasons to be angry all the time. Seriously.

What is it about comics that make people hate everything they read and watch yet they keep coming back? This is weird.

[jwatson]

Oh! you are not alone. Black Panther really was everybody's movie BUT T'Challa's. I'm not that surprised that they could actually crack a script for the sequel this fast because T'Challa's role in the first movie wasn't as memorable as every other character around him.

And it wasn't a bad movie it just wasn't a tchalla movie and imo the script was the weakest part. Maybe that's what the second movie was going to delve into. Tchalla. But when there are rumors of spiderverse having every peter who ever played the part of spiderman and a known multiverse im just not seeing the big deal with a different tchalla. It could probably be a more emotional story or start in like a parallel wakanda and have tchalla work his way to 616. I don't know i feel like they are making it harder than it needs to be but i don't know the behind the scenes stuff.

[jwatson]

Anybody who watched Black Panther and decided the movie wasn't about T'challa must have been on their phone the whole movie. Or they watched the movie trying to nitpick every minute instead of... watching the movie.

Y'alls lives would be a lot better if you weren't so... angry and looking for reasons to be angry all the time. Seriously.

What is it about comics that make people hate everything they read and watch yet they keep coming back? This is weird.

Then i guess i was on my phone because for ME, the movie felt more about killmonger and his journey and how his character was the catalyst to show Wakanda wasn't what they claim to be because while they sat in their isolated nation their sons and daughters in other countries were abandoned and left to fend for themselves while the great nation did nothing. Then we followed his journey to his homeland where he took over a mantle that in his mind should have and could have been his and we watched what he was willing to sacrifice, the woman he loved, for his goals. Compare that to Tchalla role as the priviledged son, who had it "easy" and was living that swag life and his ultimate story was suppose to be? He was a Super Hero because his father died in Civil war. Getting his throne back? Appreciating it? I still don't know what tchalla story was to be honest.

[MindofShadow]

Then i guess i was on my phone because for ME, the movie felt more about killmonger and his journey and how his character was the catalyst to show Wakanda wasn't what they claim to be because while they sat in their isolated nation their sons and daughters in other countries were abandoned and left to fend for themselves while the great nation did nothing. Then we followed his journey to his homeland where he took over a mantle that in his mind should have and could have been his and we watched what he was willing to sacrifice, the woman he loved, for his goals. Compare that to Tchalla role as the priviledged son, who had it "easy" and was living that swag life and his ultimate story was suppose to be? He was a Super Hero because his father died in Civil war. Getting his throne back? Appreciating it? I still don't know what tchalla story was to be honest.

The movie you invented in your head does sound kinda fire though. Might be a cool What If Story! The Tragedy of Killmonger! Who found all the son's nad daughters abandoned by Wakanda (instead of 1), while the great nation did nothing (instead of not know about it because it was a secret kept between 2 people), and we follow his good guy journey (which included murdering his own "brothers and sisters on the continent" and teaming up with BFF Klaw) and sacrificing the woman he loves (errr shoot in the head because reasons) just for his noble goal (that wasn't his birthright because he was not the first born and he is the son of a traitor anyway).

[DigiCom]

That’s the million dollar question.

Why is Marvel pushing full steam ahead to make a BP 2 without the main character?

What exactly is the hook here?

It's a million-dollar question with a 1.3 billion-dollar answer:



If you think Disney cares about ANYTHING other than the bottom line, I have this bridge…

[Ezyo1000]

As an aside:

I think part of the problem with how Marvel is handling this situation is that they keep using a white guy to tell "us" that T'challa really isn't that important. It comes off wrong.

If.... errrrr... (are there any POC high up in MCU????)... ummm... Coolger was the one saying it, then it would have somewhat more weight IMO and not come off weird.

But, Hollywood is gonna Hollywood. There is no reason to go scorch earth and magically make up that Coogler can't direct and Feige is a hack. They are both very good at their job.

It is a Business. Not a social justice party. Some of yall (including me) just got caught up and tricked the first time lol.

I see it this way. How often do franchises succeed when they drop the main character and try to have the supporting cast continue on? Not just movies but TV shows as well.

Also my problem is how fast they moved on too. Not even 3 months passed and they going on about how they are just going to continue on, then with the latest from Feige, it appears as though the strategy now is to try and make it seem this was always the case. That Wakanda is bigger than T'Challa (it's not) for the franchise and that it's totally cool. Like frontier said earlier, it's bothersome how Disney is underselling T'Challa for Wakanda, yet for Asgard they absolutely have zero fraks about blowing it up, because it's Thor that people care about.

I know Coogler and Feige are good at what they do, but i am just not going to pretend that what's happening is what they would of done with any character and that it has nothing to do with T'Challa being Black that certain exceptions are made and passed off as something it's not

[Tofali]

Then i guess i was on my phone because for ME, the movie felt more about killmonger and his journey and how his character was the catalyst to show Wakanda wasn't what they claim to be because while they sat in their isolated nation their sons and daughters in other countries were abandoned and left to fend for themselves while the great nation did nothing. Then we followed his journey to his homeland where he took over a mantle that in his mind should have and could have been his and we watched what he was willing to sacrifice, the woman he loved, for his goals. Compare that to Tchalla role as the priviledged son, who had it "easy" and was living that swag life and his ultimate story was suppose to be? He was a Super Hero because his father died in Civil war. Getting his throne back? Appreciating it? I still don't know what tchalla story was to be honest.

I wholeheartedly agree. Killmonger and Nakia drove stories and their goals were the ones realized in the end.

[jwatson]

I wholeheartedly agree. Killmonger and Nakia drove stories and their goals were the ones realized in the end.

Pretty much. I had way more sympathy for killmonger than anyone in the movie. He was the one on a journey through suffering and being denied this life of what is suppose to be black excellence for no mistake of his own. It hit deep for me. And in the end Wakanda changed because of him, not because of Tchalla.

Lets not even front if we found out we been here in america dealing with all this while some secret advanced Wakandian nation been out there living it up we wouldn't be feeling some kind of way. Now imagine thats where you should have been. It was the most relatable story for me.

[DigiCom]

Here's the thing...

You are all assuming that somebody cares about us.

Disney is a business. Their only concern is making a profit.

Feige is a businessman. While he may have his opinions on how things should go, his FIRST priority is to make a profit.

Coogler is an artist, but also a businessman. His priority is to make films that fulfill his vision of the characters and setting... while making a profit.

The cast & crew may or may not have their own input, but they are still in service to the artistic vision of the director... and the need to make a profit.

Did you notice what's missing?

Any input from fans. Because they don't NEED it. They don't need US. Just our money.

Hell, I'm not sure they even need the comic, given how much money the first BP movie made while the Coates run was cratering.

Is it possible that the second movie won't have T'Challa in it at all? Yeah. If they ran the numbers and decide that it will make the targeted box office, they'll do it in a hot minute, and damn the consequences.

Hell, look what they did to the THOR franchise. They turned an awesome (if somewhat impulsive) warrior god into the Dude from The Big Lebowski... and made billions.

Guys (and gals, and other)... we don't count. Even if every person who has ever posted on this thread or bought the comic boycotted the next film, it would still make millions.

Probably a moot point anyway. If this bloody pandemic doesn't get resolved soonish, big-budget tentpole films are doomed.

[DigiCom]

I wholeheartedly agree. Killmonger and Nakia drove stories and their goals were the ones realized in the end.

Simple question: Who changed at the end of the movie? Who grew as a person? Who actually had a character arc?

[Ezyo1000]

Then i guess i was on my phone because for ME, the movie felt more about killmonger and his journey and how his character was the catalyst to show Wakanda wasn't what they claim to be because while they sat in their isolated nation their sons and daughters in other countries were abandoned and left to fend for themselves while the great nation did nothing. Then we followed his journey to his homeland where he took over a mantle that in his mind should have and could have been his and we watched what he was willing to sacrifice, the woman he loved, for his goals. Compare that to Tchalla role as the priviledged son, who had it "easy" and was living that swag life and his ultimate story was suppose to be? He was a Super Hero because his father died in Civil war. Getting his throne back? Appreciating it? I still don't know what tchalla story was to be honest.

What we saw was a man consumed by Anger and grief over the death of his father (understably, also same as T'Challa) do horrific things to his own brothers and sisters in Africa (his own words), murdered his girlfriend without hesitation when she became a liability. Teamed up with the man responsible for the death of his country men. We saw a hypocrite who criticized Wakanda for it's non action (valid point) bit wanted to use the technology to shifted the power scale so that they would be in top (his own words) and destabilize governments and leave those nations to fend for themselves. A man who also didn't have the foresite to see that the nation he was now going to rules entire stability would also be destabilized by him destroying the HSH, ultimately setting the World on fire (burn it all) because he was angry.

T'Challas story was learning what being a King, and a good King with morals meant. His father who he admired for 30 some years wasn't the man he thought he was. As he took the throne he was seeing the weight of the crown. His actions had long reaching effects. He couldn't just kill klaus without massive ramifications. Taking Ross to Wakanda meant exposing them to outside powers. He couldn't be driven by anger like Erik. He saw was anger did to Erik and his best friend, as he was almost consumed by it in CW and with klaw. His journey was to build bridges within and outside Wakanda through M'Baku (something no other BP even decided to do) and Ross (Which led to the outreach center) this unifying Wakanda for the first time ever.

His heroes journey wasn't just punching out the bad guy, it was more a kings journey then a hero journey

[Ekie]

How about both of you stop with these flimsy comparisons? What Feige and Coogler have had to deal with here is an entirely new circumstance almost no other major franchise has ever had to deal with. It's not like Reeve's Superman, Howard's War Machine, Norton's Hulk, Ledger's Joker and so on. It has its own entire set of nuances that make it its own complicated beast altogether and both of the parties involved are doing what they feel is best based on their own experiences with Chadwick.

I'm sorry but you guys are gonna have to learn this sooner or later: no one in Hollywood is trying to victimise you, vindicate you or punish you. All they're trying to do is first make money and work on their craft second. Maybe you get brought on along on the ride once in a while but that's as far as you ever go.

Black Panther doesn't belong to us. The character and lore was created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, and Marvel and Disney own the intellectual property and can use it however they see fit to achieve their goals of making money. That's really all it is.

This narrative that Coogler is a hack and not a good enough Black man or whatever to respect the character or that Feige dislikes the character because he is a White man, or that they're simply doing what is expected is all inconsequential. It's also childish. I'm sorry.

It's also an opinion that were free to have as consumers. These people and the professions and their situations aren't protected from that. If they don't like harsh opinions they should do better. If they don't like critiques they should probably try following division the Creator's had for the characters rather than trying to make up their own. It's a job, we all face tragedy and we all get through it and keep moving. In Hollywood they say the show goes on except in this case for some reason

[Ezyo1000]

I wholeheartedly agree. Killmonger and Nakia drove stories and their goals were the ones realized in the end.

Except Erik wanted to wage war with the world with Wakanda leading the charge, and Nakia wanted Wakanda to open it's borders and let in refugees. Neither of those happened. Wakanda opened an outreach center and was starting to share it's resources. That was all T'Challas idea

Here's the thing...

You are all assuming that somebody cares about us.

Disney is a business. Their only concern is making a profit.

Feige is a businessman. While he may have his opinions on how things should go, his FIRST priority is to make a profit.

Coogler is an artist, but also a businessman. His priority is to make films that fulfill his vision of the characters and setting... while making a profit.

The cast & crew may or may not have their own input, but they are still in service to the artistic vision of the director... and the need to make a profit.

Did you notice what's missing?

Any input from fans. Because they don't NEED it. They don't need US. Just our money.

Hell, I'm not sure they even need the comic, given how much money the first BP movie made while the Coates run was cratering.

Is it possible that the second movie won't have T'Challa in it at all? Yeah. If they ran the numbers and decide that it will make the targeted box office, they'll do it in a hot minute, and damn the consequences.

Hell, look what they did to the THOR franchise. They turned an awesome (if somewhat impulsive) warrior god into the Dude from The Big Lebowski... and made billions.

Guys (and gals, and other)... we don't count. Even if every person who has ever posted on this thread or bought the comic boycotted the next film, it would still make millions.

Probably a moot point anyway. If this bloody pandemic doesn't get resolved soonish, big-budget tentpole films are doomed.

To be fair, the reason Thor became what he now is because his first two movies weren't working. He became a goof ball Because the awesome warrior god angle didn't catch on.

But that's still vastly different than continuing a franchise without the title character, especially when it was never the intended route they were going and this was not set up to work that way (like say, the show Gotham) on which Case we have seen many times that this course leads to failure more often that success.

That's not to say the BP movie will bomb. Ir will be successful by Disney/Marvel standards but as for BP standards? That's were we will see what the future holds, and I have my doubts

[DigiCom]

That's not to say the BP movie will bomb. Ir will be successful by Disney/Marvel standards but as for BP standards? That's were we will see what the future holds, and I have my doubts

i'm not sure any movie would truly satisfy BP fan standards...

[Marvell2100]

The movie you invented in your head does sound kinda fire though. Might be a cool What If Story! The Tragedy of Killmonger! Who found all the son's nad daughters abandoned by Wakanda (instead of 1), while the great nation did nothing (instead of not know about it because it was a secret kept between 2 people), and we follow his good guy journey (which included murdering his own "brothers and sisters on the continent" and teaming up with BFF Klaw) and sacrificing the woman he loves (errr shoot in the head because reasons) just for his noble goal (that wasn't his birthright because he was not the first born and he is the son of a traitor anyway).

They can do the same with Loki since he was the star of all of the Thor movies.

I mean, after all, he was abandoned at birth, adopted by a father who neglected him ,a brother who made him feel inferior and a mother who pretended to love him. It
took courage for him to stand on his own two feet and become his own man. He found friends who only wanted to come over and hang out on Earth but his brother and along with his new besties the Avengers were jealous and drove his new friends away.

It's a classic Greek tragedy.