T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[Ezyo1000]

If only lol. I’m hoping Ridley doesn’t buy into the whole “power couple” garbage and thankfully those solicits and Coates’ comments seem to be confirming that. And one of the few upsides to no T’Challa in the MCU is Storm probably ends up with Wolverine or Forge and the comics synergize in that direction, killing that shit in the comics semi-permanently.

I think y’all are way too hard on McGregor. That crack in Wakanda story is bad (and so is the KKK arc) but damn Panther’s Rage is a top 5 BP story. I loved his worldbuilding and even if his T’Challa got his ass beat he got up every time and grinded out a victory mostly by his damn self. His prose was beautiful and I think he had more reverence for the concept of BP and Wakanda. I think Coates tried to do a modern equivalent to that with some heavy influences from stuff like Game of Thrones.

Ya never know, if x office is allowed to have her do whatever to him it's only fair if she get told off as well. That alone would earn my respect for Ridley.

I think Panthers rage is fine. I think the problem is that Mcgregor should of had T'Challa actually win unabated in Their final fight. It would of made it that much more earned given how the story progressed. I still rate Mcgregor above Coates by far

[Dboi654]

One of the best moments in McGregor's Panther arc is T'Challa killing the T-rex.

[chief12d]

Must have been the final season of GoT. Because a few times in seasons 1-4, I had to stop after the episode and state into nothingness. Lol

But I'm not as bad as some, I generally liked the final season although I could see they were taking a lot more traditional form of story telling.

I see the influence as far as Coates focusing on multiple perspectives while a grander threat kinda lurks in the background. The civil war in Wakanda saw multiple factions all vying for power where Coates tries (and largely fails) to create grand character arcs that intersect and lead into a wider conflict. With GOT you had the White Walkers and with Coates you had the gods being missing due to the IGEW and the stuff with Adversary.

It’s why his book had a lot less focus on T’Challa than traditional BP books and feeds into how many think BP books were given a bigger sense of scale. Coates fumbled his ending worse than GOT but it’s not like it matters to many people, as I’m sure Digicom can explain how a story’s end don’t matter to literary types lol.

Ya never know, if x office is allowed to have her do whatever to him it's only fair if she get told off as well. That alone would earn my respect for Ridley.

I think Panthers rage is fine. I think the problem is that Mcgregor should of had T'Challa actually win unabated in Their final fight. It would of made it that much more earned given how the story progressed. I still rate Mcgregor above Coates by far

I don’t need that tbh. The best way to erase a legacy is to ignore it and if possible mock it. Having T’Challa tell Storm off only affirms their past romance and gives it more weight than it deserves. To many it would just be further proof of their love for each other lol.

I’d be perfectly fine with Ridley not referencing it at all and having T’Challa tell his new lover “You are the first woman I’ve ever truly loved”. If Coates can retcon decades of established characterization why can’t Ridley? If he can ignore supporting characters and past storylines why can’t Ridley? Just move on IMO.

I feel that way about most of the damage control Ridley will end up doing. Anansi wasn’t referenced a single time in Coates’ book and yet in the KIB tie-in Redjack established him as a brother of Bast, which already erodes at the whole Orisha origin. More stuff like that please.

[Marvell2100]

The best villains often have supporting characters in their own right. Killmonger’s Death Regiments/Legions falling into obscurity is a tragedy and honestly I think the general lack of strong underlings is partly to blame for why he kinda falters as a villain.

While I think some characters like Baron Macabre have the range to strike out on their own and become BP rogues in their own right I think you get a lot out of Killmonger by reestablishing Slay as his lover and greatest/most dangerous ally. Revamp Lord Karnaj and Salamander K’Ruel as commanders under his rule of Niganda and you can get so many great stories out of a group of warriors/mercenaries that rival Wakanda’s finest under T’Challa.

And I’m still waiting for Moses Magnum and the Magnum Munitions company to be turned into a Doom or Magento level threat.

That's why I want Red Widow to become a BP Rogue. With all of the assets she has access to(Red Room, Winter Guard) she'd be a perfect BP villain.

With his powers Moses Magnum should have been a world threat decades ago.

[Vanguard]

That's why I want Red Widow to become a BP Rogue. With all of the assets she has access to(Red Room, Winter Guard) she'd be a perfect BP villain.

With his powers Moses Magnum should have been a world threat decades ago.

Her backstory and look are set. I just don’t find her powerful enough.

[Marvell2100]

Her backstory and look are set. I just don’t find her powerful enough.

Hey people underestimate T'Challa too.

Her appearing regularly will give them a chance to flesh her out more. And if she's been trained in the Red Room like Natasha an Yelena, she doesn't have to be powerful as in superhuman.

[Huntsman Spider]

That's why I want Red Widow to become a BP Rogue. With all of the assets she has access to(Red Room, Winter Guard) she'd be a perfect BP villain.

With his powers Moses Magnum should have been a world threat decades ago.

I can agree on Moses Magnum. At the very least, he should be a major global player, both in terms of geopolitics and in the international underworld.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Hey people underestimate T'Challa too.

Her appearing regularly will give them a chance to flesh her out more. And if she's been trained in the Red Room like Natasha an Yelena, she doesn't have to be powerful as in superhuman.

Agreed.

BP rogues either need ti be super skilled or super powered. Being super skilled allows her to be a threat without power.

[Ezyo1000]

The best villains often have supporting characters in their own right. Killmonger’s Death Regiments/Legions falling into obscurity is a tragedy and honestly I think the general lack of strong underlings is partly to blame for why he kinda falters as a villain.

While I think some characters like Baron Macabre have the range to strike out on their own and become BP rogues in their own right I think you get a lot out of Killmonger by reestablishing Slay as his lover and greatest/most dangerous ally. Revamp Lord Karnaj and Salamander K’Ruel as commanders under his rule of Niganda and you can get so many great stories out of a group of warriors/mercenaries that rival Wakanda’s finest under T’Challa.

And I’m still waiting for Moses Magnum and the Magnum Munitions company to be turned into a Doom or Magento level threat.

Moses needs to get that Wakandan villain passport to get integrated onto the Mythos lol.

I like the idea of Erik forming a super human team to counter T'Challa and his forces. Maybe Baron can rez Tetu a d actually make him decent lol

I don’t need that tbh. The best way to erase a legacy is to ignore it and if possible mock it. Having T’Challa tell Storm off only affirms their past romance and gives it more weight than it deserves. To many it would just be further proof of their love for each other lol.

I’d be perfectly fine with Ridley not referencing it at all and having T’Challa tell his new lover “You are the first woman I’ve ever truly loved”. If Coates can retcon decades of established characterization why can’t Ridley? If he can ignore supporting characters and past storylines why can’t Ridley? Just move on IMO.

I feel that way about most of the damage control Ridley will end up doing. Anansi wasn’t referenced a single time in Coates’ book and yet in the KIB tie-in Redjack established him as a brother of Bast, which already erodes at the whole Orisha origin. More stuff like that please.

Nah I more so meant like that fresh prince gif I posted, getting thrown out lol or similar to how T'Challa annualled the marriage. No long speech, no I will always love you, short sweet and to the point, except T'Challa ain't going to be rebuilding isht, he would be standing tall with his new LI.

[BlackClaw]

The best villains often have supporting characters in their own right. Killmonger’s Death Regiments/Legions falling into obscurity is a tragedy and honestly I think the general lack of strong underlings is partly to blame for why he kinda falters as a villain.

While I think some characters like Baron Macabre have the range to strike out on their own and become BP rogues in their own right I think you get a lot out of Killmonger by reestablishing Slay as his lover and greatest/most dangerous ally. Revamp Lord Karnaj and Salamander K’Ruel as commanders under his rule of Niganda and you can get so many great stories out of a group of warriors/mercenaries that rival Wakanda’s finest under T’Challa.

And I’m still waiting for Moses Magnum and the Magnum Munitions company to be turned into a Doom or Magento level threat.

Co signed on Karnaj and Salamander! Also they should find a way to bring back Sombre and maybe Venomm as well.

[Cville]

Moses Magnam was a villain in one of the anthology stories.

[Huntsman Spider]

Moses Magnam was a villain in one of the anthology stories.

And if that counts, T'Chaka's killer in Iron Man: Armored Adventures when Black Panther first guest-starred.

[chief12d]

Moses needs to get that Wakandan villain passport to get integrated onto the Mythos lol.

I like the idea of Erik forming a super human team to counter T'Challa and his forces. Maybe Baron can rez Tetu a d actually make him decent lol



Nah I more so meant like that fresh prince gif I posted, getting thrown out lol or similar to how T'Challa annualled the marriage. No long speech, no I will always love you, short sweet and to the point, except T'Challa ain't going to be rebuilding isht, he would be standing tall with his new LI.

Yea Killmonger becoming the Black Panther/Silver Sable of Niganda is a direction I’d like to see. He reassembles his Death Regiments from across Africa and the Western Hemisphere and launches a shadowy coup which somehow leads to a loss of life that gets blamed on Wakanda, damaging their reputation globally. T’Challa lets him keep power because Killmonger actually cares about the Nigandan people (he identifies with their abandonment by Wakanda) and because he plans on forcing him to help push out Western influence in East Africa.

The Death Regiments, stocked with several super powered commandoes led by Killmonger, become the core of Niganda’s national defense and act as a government-sanctioned mercenary company selling their services in the underworld, putting all that money back into the Nigandan economy. The whole country gets turned into N’Jadaka Village from the Priest run, a sprawling cyberpunk dystopia controlled by a corporatized military dictatorship, with Magnum in the fray selling new super weapons to several nations concerned about the instability around Wakanda.

That's why I want Red Widow to become a BP Rogue. With all of the assets she has access to(Red Room, Winter Guard) she'd be a perfect BP villain.

With his powers Moses Magnum should have been a world threat decades ago.

Agreed, Red Widow would be an interesting rogue to play with. I see her having a role in Marvel past Aaron’s run if he sticks the landing with the mysteries of her character and this overachieving story he has planned. With her assets she can be a powerful enemy in a game of geopolitical chess. Same goes for the current Nighthawk who T’Challa’s already been engaging in some spy warfare with in the Avengers book.

All too often writers play into foreign nations trying to take over Wakanda directly, more writers should play into the Priest direction of causing chaos around Wakanda like Achebe sparking a refugee crisis and attacking Wakandan charities. Imagine Red Widow trying to destabilize Azania by sabotaging a Wakanda-funded infrastructure project so Russia can make that nation an ally and secure military bases in the region and greater access to their resources. We had a story kind of like that in the anthology book they released recently and I’d love to see more stuff like that.

[Ezyo1000]

Yea Killmonger becoming the Black Panther/Silver Sable of Niganda is a direction I’d like to see. He reassembles his Death Regiments from across Africa and the Western Hemisphere and launches a shadowy coup which somehow leads to a loss of life that gets blamed on Wakanda, damaging their reputation globally. T’Challa lets him keep power because Killmonger actually cares about the Nigandan people (he identifies with their abandonment by Wakanda) and because he plans on forcing him to help push out Western influence in East Africa.

The Death Regiments, stocked with several super powered commandoes led by Killmonger, become the core of Niganda’s national defense and act as a government-sanctioned mercenary company selling their services in the underworld, putting all that money back into the Nigandan economy. The whole country gets turned into N’Jadaka Village from the Priest run, a sprawling cyberpunk dystopia controlled by a corporatized military dictatorship, with Magnum in the fray selling new super weapons to several nations concerned about the instability around Wakanda.



Agreed, Red Widow would be an interesting rogue to play with. I see her having a role in Marvel past Aaron’s run if he sticks the landing with the mysteries of her character and this overachieving story he has planned. With her assets she can be a powerful enemy in a game of geopolitical chess. Same goes for the current Nighthawk who T’Challa’s already been engaging in some spy warfare with in the Avengers book.

All too often writers play into foreign nations trying to take over Wakanda directly, more writers should play into the Priest direction of causing chaos around Wakanda like Achebe sparking a refugee crisis and attacking Wakandan charities. Imagine Red Widow trying to destabilize Azania by sabotaging a Wakanda-funded infrastructure project so Russia can make that nation an ally and secure military bases in the region and greater access to their resources. We had a story kind of like that in the anthology book they released recently and I’d love to see more stuff like that.

Oh i like that, and it wouldn't be that T'Challa let's Erik stay in power, it's that he can't directly remove him otherwise it will look like an act of war (as while Erik is being manipulated onto removing Western influence from east Africa, he also has allied with other world powers who would be all too happy to team up with him and paint Wakanda as an aggressive nation who needs to be neutralized) and since he is a head of state, it's not so easy to deal with him now so T'Challa has to tread carefully, this could become a Shadow war in which T'Challa uses Kasper/ Akili and the HZ to wage a war of counter intelligence and counter ops to fight them without drawing attention to Wakanda.


As for Red widow, I think she would work best as not someone T'Challa fights director, because if he does she needs to be powered. I don't think T'Challa should have any villains who are just regular people, not unless they are noncombatants. But I agree, at this point the world knows that to go rounds with Wakanda is to court death, so they need to attack their charities and outreach efforts to try and destabilize relations

[Mike_Murdock]

I agree. I am really wondering if the Coates fans can actually compare and contrast, though. I mean, without cribbing. McGregors BP is what I believe is the closest to Coates run there is. And as an intellectual exerise wondered if, point by point, the current Coates fans could share their thoughts on the similarities and differences.

I do think there's definitely similarities, but I wouldn't push the comparison too far.

I do think the influence of McGregor can be seen on Coates' run if only because I feel like it's the first run to feature a dedicated map of Wakanda, which was something that was a big deal in Jungle Action. Coates also apparently spent a lot of time and effort planning his map, fwiw. I also think McGregor's run spent a decent amount of time contrasting a pre and post technological Wakanda (Hudlin created the retcon that Wakanda was always technologically advanced). While Coates' run is post-retcon, there are definitely influences in the messiness that follows from that society in flux. That being said, I would argue this messiness is actually more derived from Christopher Priest's run than McGregor.

I think the biggest point of comparison that most will think of is the comparative "weakness" of T'Challa. For most of the stories, he is caught flat-footed and is reactive. In both runs, the enemy is able to beat him up and beat him down. This is in comparison to Priest's run where there's usually a narrative distance through Everett K. Ross's narration that makes it seem that he's always known the answer and the audience is the one playing catch-up. Similarly, Hudlin's run he's just a badass superhero 90% of the time (it takes a lot of enemies in Who Is the Black Panther to get to the point that he's at all struggling).

However, I do think the comparison here is where you can start to see the main contrasts. In McGregor's stories, T'Challa is beat up so you can see the strength of his resolve he is overcoming. He doesn't have the same template as the post-Priest world where he's got super armor and all those things so McGregor is able to write him as simply a very athletic normal human. The heart-shaped herb giving him enhanced senses and a healing factor seems to be more important than any technology he might have. It's his humanity and overcoming the odds that shows his strength of character. In pretty much every story, he does it alone in the long-run.

Coates has to work with a T'Challa who has super technology and has been established as a super genius. To make up for this, most of his weakness starts as one of self-doubt. Physical weakness can theoretically be a factor but even in A Nation Under Our Feet, it's his doubts over the death of Shuri and the humbling from Cull Obsidian that lead to his initial struggles (that are amplified by Zenzi). Even early on, the book demonstrates that T'Challa will come out on top in any individual fight (I remember "Goon Slam Gary" being a source of controversy because he was able to lay a hit on T'Challa, but it's worth pointing out the next panel involved T'Challa blasting him away with his force push), it's just that his emotions are clouding his judgment to realize the individual fight doesn't matter. I think the other big factor is the weakness here is overcome, but it's not overcome through individual strength of will. Coates definitely views Black Panther as a team rather than an individual. T'Challa's intelligence is presented as him knowing how to use the team to save the day but, over and over again, it demonstrates that he needs to rely on others and not just himself.

Sorry about the long post, I guess those would be my thoughts.